Penn. Chief's Daring Move Saves Firefighters

[JM15 386]

SWATARA TWP., Penn.-- The huge blaze last week at a Swatara Twp. bowling alley almost overcame two Steelton firefighters who were pouring water on it from an aerial bucket.

Their chief's quick decision to move the aerial truck while they were still aloft in the bucket, an unconventional and dangerous move, got them out of harm's way.

Steelton Fire Lt. Milton Carnes says that every day for the past week, he has replayed in his mind the biggest fire he's ever fought. Last Wednesday, Carnes and J.R. Miller were working from an aerial bucket, pouring water down into the fire that eventually gutted the ABC East Lanes, when fire broke through the roof and raced toward them.

The men aimed their hose at the flames, but the fire kept coming, Carnes said.

"The smoke changed from light gray to dark gray to black to greenish yellow. It got real hot and the fire got real loud, like a volcano with a lot of energy. The fire seemed to suck the smoke in and blow it out harder and harder. I never saw a fire like that before. I looked at J.R. and said, 'We need to get out of here.' He agreed," Carnes said.

Then, in an act that has the firefighting community buzzing, Steelton Fire Chief Gene Vance saved his men by driving the aerial truck about 50 feet -- with Carnes and Miller in the bucket, with the boom extended, stabilizing jacks down and hoses attached, pouring water.

"It was an absolutely risky move that worked," Harrisburg Fire Chief Donald Konkle said. "There was a huge risk of the truck tipping over. Fortunately, the chief backed up straight, the boom was parallel to the chassis, which kept the weight centered over the wheels, and the stabilizing jacks on the sides may have put the weight lower and wider, helping to balance things out."

Carnes, a longtime volunteer firefighter, said he knew firefighters had a big job on their hands when they arrived at the bowling alley about noon and saw smoke billowing. The Steelton crew set up its aerial truck on the Highland Street side of the building, and Carnes and Miller went to work.

"We went to the roof," Carnes said, "but we never got on it. Instead, we worked from our aerial bucket and cut vent holes. When we made the first hole on the roof, thick, black smoke came out. We cut a second hole in the side and flowed water through it for a few minutes."

Fire broke through the roof on the far side of the building where firefighters were working, and flames raced toward the men.

Vance and Assistant Chief Brian Handley watched in horror as Carnes and Miller, engulfed in heavy smoke, maneuvered the bucket away from the fire. Then the roof began to collapse.

"We needed to get our guys out of there. They were in smoke and fire, parts of the building were exploding, sounding like bullets. We pulled the jacks up a few inches, then I backed the truck up about 50 feet with the aerial still up and the hose attached," Vance said.

Carnes said he and Miller "couldn't see because of the smoke. We felt the truck lurch as it moved. When we heard the backup alarm, I knew Gene was getting us out of there. We crawled down the ladder and got out. We came real close to getting hurt."

"A lot of people talked about our moving the truck. I'd do it again. It saved our guys. It saved our truck. You do what you have to," Vance said.

From Firehouse.com

[huzzie59 75]

http://www.wgal.com/news/11532952/detail.h...ss=lan&psp=news

News Story with Pictures

[JohnnyOV 2]

question is, would you make the same call?

[x129K 1,393]

Ballsy move........kudos

[PCFD ENG58 1,085]

AFTER SEEING THE FOOTAGE, IT WASN'T THAT BAD ,BOOM OVER THE BED AND ONLY UP MAYBE TEN FEET , STILL A RISK BUT A GOOD CALL.

[Future Fireman 4]

what i don't get is how he was able TO MOVE THE TRUCK. I thought that once the aerial was engaged, the axles and wheels LOCK UP.

Mike

[lad12derff 283]

That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Where was the guy on the turntable? Was it safer to move a tower ladder while operating than it was to rotate them out of danger? Was it faster to move the tower ladder than to jump on the turntable and rotate them? If you only have 2 guys on the truck, as it appears in the pictures, and nobody to operate the turntable, then 1 of the guys should have stayed down. This is not a carnival ride brothers. Everyone does not need to be in the bucket!!!!! Lets learn from their mistake and put in our mental notes not to operate like that.

[lad12derff 283]

"We went to the roof," Carnes said, "but we never got on it. Instead, we worked from our aerial bucket and cut vent holes. When we made the first hole on the roof, thick, black smoke came out. We cut a second hole in the side and flowed water through it for a few minutes."

Fire broke through the roof on the far side of the building where firefighters were working, and flames raced toward the men.

From Firehouse.com

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At least they were smart enough not to go on a bow string truss roof!

Just to give a quick truck class here, when you vent a roof you should expect to find smoke and draw the fire to the vent hole. This is to allow the interior crews to advance hand lines and to give any victims a chance for survival. These guys had no reason to open the roof, it was already through the roof (according to the pictures) on the other side of the building. Where did they think the fire was going to go? It is looking for the easiest way up and out! And I would hope that the IC did not have guys operating inside a bow string truss constucted building with the fire already through the roof. This is how we kill ourselves.

[ltjay157 10]

ok, i should hope that the operator of the truck knows where all the controls are for that piece of apparatuss for when the dookie does hit the fan. granted, the chief's ballsy move saved the guys. but what would happen if he wound up killing the guys instead? my feeling has been as long as you learn something from each incident/critique, you've gained valuable knowledge for the next one.

[dougeng41 1]

Sounds more like a very LUCKY move!!!!

[Guest]

I have to agree with the above. You would think that a chief would have enough common sense to not pull a move like that. He is lucky he did not kill, or injure 2 firefighters and destroy a piece of equipment worth close to a million dollars. I do not have much experience with tower ladders, but the ones I have worked with you need to have a guy on the turn table to operate the bucket. The guy on the turn table has to keep his foot on the little pedal which activated the high idle, thus allowing the bucket to move. Once he removed his foot from the pedal, the guys in the bucket could not move. I do not know if this is standard but it is what I have seen.

[ltjay157 10]

yes, on newer ariel/tower ladders, there is a foot pedal on the turntable. it's called a dead mans switch so the ariel device can be moved only when someone is on the turntable. on older ariel devices, there is just a on/off button on the control panel. so just pull it on and leave the turntable. the ariel device can now be operated from the bucket w/o someone spotting on the turntable. to raise the outriggers with the tower up was very risky. the chief had to engage the override switch to move the outriggers. he was lucky he didn't topple the truck. worse comes to worse, he could've just moved the tower away from the flames or worst case scenerio, retracted the ladder & just blow out the ladder pipe. from the pics i saw, it didn't look like much of an interior attack was going on at the time so venting the roof was pointless since it was a surround & drown. no point in putting people at risk to not accomplish anything positive.

[HFD23 37]

The guy on the turn table has to keep his foot on the little pedal which activated the high idle, thus allowing the bucket to move.  Once he removed his foot from the pedal, the guys in the bucket could not move.  I do not know if this is standard but it is what I have seen.

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The peddle needs to be depressed for the guy on the turntable controls to operate the bucket. The personnel in the bucket most often have one or more joysticks that require a trigger to be lifted or squeezed in order to operate. The turntable on our truck has a switch that gives power to the controls in the bucket that can be turned off. however a easier way is when the bucket has the control if they are about to come in contact with wires or the building (or for any other reason that the turntable needs to take control) the turntable operator can take control of the bucket by stepping on the peddle this over rides the bucket control thus stopping the bucket. The turntable operator can over take the bucket by stepping on the peddle and also can pulls one of the 3 levers on our truck that extends retracts, raises or lowers, or side to side thus moving the bucket crew out of harms way.

note all trucks are not the same so this may be different on your depts truck.

[Jason762 2]

At least they were smart enough not to go on a bow string truss roof!

Just to give a quick truck class here, when you vent a roof you should expect to find smoke and draw the fire to the vent hole. This is to allow the interior crews to advance hand lines and to give any victims a chance for survival. These guys had no reason to open the roof, it was already through the roof (according to the pictures) on the other side of the building. Where did they think the fire was going to go? It is looking for the easiest way up and out!  And I would hope that the IC did not have guys operating inside a bow string truss constucted building with the fire already through the roof. This is how we kill ourselves.    

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Good points,

Also not to Monday morning quarterback, but what was with the application of water. It would have been far better to set the bucket down near the ground and operate the stream up and into the building instead of raining it down on top of the building. Roofs are made to keep out water and in some of the pictures it appears that the stream is not even close to being applied to the fire. The pictures are just snapshots in time and may not represent what actually took place, but from the looks of it, operations did not go too well.

[Remember585 815]

I don't think this is the place to start the eternal pissing match of Paid Vs. Volunteer. This topic is a discussion of a Chief who panicked and moved his Tower Ladder while it was still up with two members in it.

I was not there and I don't know what the conditions were when this Chief did what he did, but I can't help but wonder how close to the building the Truck was that it had to be moved. If it was setup far enough away I would think that swinging the stick away would of been more then sufficient?

I once was an aerial moved with the outriggers down, but the stick was in the bed. Seeing a rig moved while the aerial is up would be quite a site... kind of like the movie Roxanne.

[Guest]

Alright, before this turns into a $hit show lets just drop the issue. I think we all can agree that there seem that this incident wasn't handled as brilliantly as it could have been. As a result 2 Firefighters risked injury or possibly death and a chief made a horrible decision to move a piece of apparatus with 2 members elevated off the ground. Lets just make sure this doesn't ever happen again.

[f19 4]

Man How disapointing........ First I would like to say that I am one of those people who like to sit back and read alot of these posts and not only gain some info, but on the way learn a thing or two, why? maybe because i dont feel i have much to contribute yet, and.....i guess thats just the way i am.

So here is a perfect topic to discuss what people think mthey might have done or what could have been done different. Why? because we are sitting at a computer watching this on a screen and not actually there. I could have thought of a number of things that i would have done different. As first responders we try our best to be prepared for every situation thrown at us, but you cant allways be ready for everything. I think that this was a spur of the moment action that i am sure he is looking back and finding things he would do different , from arrival at sceene and so on.. That is what learning and being prepared is all about.. If this happens to any of you who saw this video it will be in your mind of maybe what not to do.... So if this is a LEARNING situation and post... (here comes the dissapointing part) Why half way through reading the responses SOMEONE HAS TO RUIN IT BY TURNING THIS INTO A PROFESSIONAL VS VOLUNTEER situation????????????? Instead of hearing your neg. garbage lets hear what YOU would do differently, since you seem to be sooo educated in all situations. Let us all learn from YOU......

ps. sorry for any misspelled words or grammer.......typing fast...