Dispatch Protocol Followed in Pennsylvania Blaze

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Just wanted to share this story. What I get out of it is, this is what happens when you do not have a good 911 system and responses that are thought out and also when communication centers are handcuffed to protocols instead of what would make sense. I had to think about how in some areas things are run, lines are drawn and I hope this article will never be able to be used with nothing more then cut and paste in our county.

Dispatch Protocol Followed in Pennsylvania Blaze

Edward Lewis

The Times Leader (Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania)

Apr. 1--BEAR CREEK TWP. -- A home in the White Haven Pocono Development had been burning for 40 minutes until the two closest fire departments, White Haven and Dennison Township, were sent to assist firefighters from Bear Creek on Monday.

The home, owned by an elderly woman, was destroyed in the blaze that was reported to Luzerne County 911 at about 11:30 a.m. The woman was reportedly trapped inside her home but managed to escape.

White Haven Pocono Development, a residential neighborhood of about 80 single family homes, is in Bear Creek Township, and about 13 miles away from the township's volunteer fire company.

Alan Pugh, public safety director for Luzerne County, said dispatch procedures were followed despite not sending the two closest fire departments to the fire.

"The residence is in Bear Creek and Bear Creek protocol was followed," Pugh said. "It falls under Bear Creek protocol and what we did was follow their protocol. We're just a relay station."

White Haven and Dennison Township volunteer fire departments are about three miles away from the residential development, said Dennison Township Assistant Fire Chief Edward Jarick.

"We were dispatched at about 12:10 p.m., I believe," Jarick said. "When I got there, the fire was knocked down."

Jarick said he doesn't believe Dennison Township has a mutual aid agreement with Bear Creek Township.

If so, he predicted that Dennison Township would have been sent much earlier to the fire.

"Because the development is in Bear Creek, it would be up to them to create the policy of how such a fire in the development would get response," Jarick said.

Bear Creek fire chief Jason Krumsky could not be reached for comment this week.

Calls to the fire department were not answered.

Pugh said 911 handles fires by following procedures sent in by fire departments.

He was not aware if Bear Creek has a mutual aid agreement with either White Haven or Dennison Township fire departments for White Haven Pocono Development.

"Municipalities tell us (911), 'here is my fire protection protocol.' They tell us who responds," Pugh said.

Firefighters from Plains Township, Laflin and Laurel Run assisted at the fire.

[Monty 35]

Just wanted to share this story.  What I get out of it is, this is what happens when you do not have a good 911 system and responses that are thought out and also when communication centers are handcuffed to protocols instead of what would make sense.  I had to think about how in some areas how things are ran, lines are drawn and I hope this article will never be able to be used with nothing more then cut and paste in our county.

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Interesting piece. However, I do see some potential similarities to WC. When you look at fire boundaries in the County you can be left scratching your head. The distances probably aren't so bad, but look at the area on Rt 134 around the IBM plant / Taconic. Town Of Yorktown, however just down the road (proably less than 1/4 mile from the town boundary) you have Millwood Station 2. (I have seen the sign there for future home of Yorktown Station 3 but I've no idea when that is planned to be there.)

I haven't heard of any structure fires in that area but there was an extrication on 134 close to the Taconic I buffed. Yorktown sent their rescue and an engine. A Millwood chief was on the scene but there was no call for Millwood (or anyone else) for mutual aid. Would it be any different for a structure fire?

[huzzie59 75]

Regardless of how close the next two departments are; and allowing the Bear Creek chief 10? to 15? minutes to respond; why did it take him the next 30 minutes to realize he needed and call for mutual aid?

[DOC22 1]

Bottom Line: Those small rural Departments need to establish and/or revise their M/A system.

[mstrang1 213]

Alot of WC protection districts are based on town or village lines with no automatic MA. Ardsley Country Club is about 1/4 mile from Ogden Engine Co (DFFD), yet Irvington FD is the first due and sole auto response there (probably about a 2-3 mile response). This is not a slam at those departments, but an Auto MA agreement should be set up for areas like this. I am not sure of the workings of a lot of the depts around WC, and who has Auto MA, but some of the problems reside in the fact that there is no exclusive dispatching agency.

Stamford has a pretty good system of MA, especially now that SFRD E5 is responding into parts of TORFDs area, significantly reducing response times to that mostly residential neighborhood. Among the Big Five, all boxes have multiple Depts responding. SFRD utilizes Glenbrook FD and Belltown FD often on box alarms in SFRD districts that border those districts respectively. This is possible due to a unified dispatch agency for the entire city.

[Guest]

If the County has a centralized 911 center, i wounder why they don't bring everyone to the table to establish a unified series of protocols which include automatic mutual aid agreements. Putnam County fire departments utilize automatic mutual aid (i don't know if this was done by the departments themselves or if the county had any involvement in the creation of these policies) and i think it works great.

[BedfordFire 7]

On all structural calls within our fire district, there will always be mutual aid heading our way. Because we do not have a tanker or ladder, we can only fight a fire for so long before our resources are depleated. There will always be two tankers and a truck responding regardless. Recently, we have created an automatic contract to have Kisco's Tower Ladder 14 respond on commercial alarms at the Fox Lane School campus. As we all know, automatic responses are beneficial, and its better to ask for something earlier rather than later.

[Guest BFD196]

Stamford has a pretty good system of MA, especially now that SFRD E5 is responding into parts of TORFDs area, significantly reducing response times to that mostly residential neighborhood.  Among the Big Five, all boxes have multiple Depts responding.  SFRD utilizes Glenbrook FD and Belltown FD often on box alarms in SFRD districts that border those districts respectively.  This is possible due to a unified dispatch agency for the entire city.

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Though sometimes complicated to explain, our mutual aid system does work well. Now that E5 goes into parts of TOR's district as quoted above, I dont think there are any areas of the city that do not have the closest engine responding, regardless of district. There's parts of SFRD's district that we(Belltown) respond to with an engine that are a minute or less ride from our firehouse. Looks like the departments in this article need to consider a similiar policy where the closest engine is automatically dispatched.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Alpha...

A centralized 911 center? In Westchester? ROFLMAO. We could only wish.

Your other concepts are right on the money...but only one problem...we are talking about Westchester...bringing everyone to the table...still wouldn't solve anything. This is the land of "control." Even if you could get most to the table...they wouldn't agree and sometimes I've been involved in meetings where I think some disagree just disagree and be pain in the a$$es.

[Guest]

Alpha...

A centralized 911 center?  In Westchester?  ROFLMAO.  We could only wish.

Your other concepts are right on the money...but only one problem...we are talking about Westchester...bringing everyone to the table...still wouldn't solve anything.  This is the land of "control."  Even if you could get most to the table...they wouldn't agree and sometimes I've been involved in meetings where I think some disagree just disagree and be pain in the a$$es.

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Well, there is always wistful thinking The county is almost stupid not to do it. All they have to do is look a few miles north to Putnam and Dutchess to see how damn well it works! By the way, to anyone in Dutchess - are their automatic mutual aid agreements amongst your departments/agencies? For example, i know Fairview FD provides a FAST team for the City of Poughkeepsie on most larger structure fires - is this automatic or requested by PFD leadership?

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Well, there is always wistful thinking The county is almost stupid not to do it. All they have to do is look a few miles north to Putnam and Dutchess to see how damn well it works! By the way, to anyone in Dutchess - are their automatic mutual aid agreements amongst your departments/agencies? For example, i know Fairview FD provides a FAST team for the City of Poughkeepsie on most larger structure fires - is this automatic or requested by PFD leadership?

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I am pretty sure that any time Poughkeepsie calls the 10-75, Fairview Automatically gets called as a FAST, just due to teh limited manpower that Poughkeepsie has. It seems that they use Fairview for a first FAST, and utilize Arlington for a second FAST if Fairview gets put to work (which happens most of the time, as I said, due to Poughkeepsie's limited manpower).

As far as automatic m/a, that is something for pre-plans. Each department submits to the County what they want. For example, When East Fishkill calls out for a 2nd Alarm assignment, they automatically get Village of Fishkill FD as their FAST (unless they are busy at some other job, but they are on the pre-planned assignment) several mutual aid tankers, as well as all tankers from their own district, and I believe m/a to backfill the main station whose area the fire is in.

Village of Fishkill in turn has East Fishkill's FAST on their First Alarm assignment, and it is an automatic dispatch for anything possibly structurally related in Fishkill.

Rombout FD uses Hughsonville for their FAST, but I don't know if that is automatic when they call for a FAST, or if their specific department is requested by the IC for each incident.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that it is a pick and choose situation here in Dutchess. Some departments have their pre-plans and automatic assignments set up, and others just call on resources as they see fit.

Hope that helps 66Alpha1!!

Edited April 3, 2007 by xfirefighter484x

[CAM502 6]

Bottom Line: Those small rural Departments need to establish and/or revise their M/A system.

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Not just the small rural departments..... !!!