Pawling (Dutchess) Ambulance Provider

[Medic137 6]

03/30/2007

Public health crisis averted

By: Weston Berg

The Pawling Town Board met in an emergency session last Friday evening to address a sudden public health crisis, as the state Department of Health deemed it, triggered by a sudden announcement by Empire Ambulance that it would be discontinuing emergency services to the town, creating a potentially perilous and unforeseen situation for residents.

Since December, the town had been receiving service through Empire for no charge and with no contract, under an agreement that it would continue to do so until April 1 while Town Supervisor Beth Coursen, through SEDAC, a consortium of officials neighboring Dover, Union Vale, and Beekman, prepared a request for bids seeking a regional ambulance provider that would service all four towns at an affordable rate.

But that all changed very suddenly last week, a few weeks after SEDAC's request went out, when Empire informed the town it couldn't afford to maintain the relationship and announced they would be discontinuing services in less than 24 hours.

The sudden news left the town board scrambling to find a new provider. Meanwhile Coursen bought time by convincing Empire to continue service up until 6 p.m. last Friday, the date of the meeting.

As a stopgap measure, the town board at the Friday meeting hired Northern Dutchess Paramedics up through April 1 at a cost $10,350. On Wednesday, March 28, the board will be meeting at 5 p.m. to choose among five proposals from emergency providers that would provide a slightly more long-term solution, with service from April through the end of the year.

The startling pull out from Empire left many on the board stunned, especially considering its stated agreement, recorded in past meeting minutes, that they would continue service to the town until April, which representatives had said could be sustained through insurance company payments.

"My speculation is that Empire believed that it would be rewarded the contract in absence of having to respond for our request for proposal," said Town Councilman James Benson.

"Empire made a very firm commitment that's recorded to provide us ambulance service free of charge for the first three months. We relied on Empire's assurances and we had no reason to believe otherwise."

Though a bid did come back from Empire, after it had made its jarring announcement, Coursen said it was far too expensive to act on in time.

"We pretty quickly got sticker shock," said Coursen, describing the consortium's reaction to the $350,000 bid that came back. The last time Pawling had such a contract was in 2005 with Alamo, for $127,000.

"When SEDAC made the announcement that we weren't awarding the contract in April, Empire did not take that well," explained Coursen.

Though Dover, Union Vale, and Beekman all currently have contracts until the end of the year, Pawling does not, making it the only town seriously endangered by the emergency.

Meanwhile, as Pawling prepares to make a decision that will ensure the safety of residents for the rest of the year, Coursen said SEDAC will continue to consider its proposals for 2008.

According to Coursen, the crisis highlighted a growing area of concern, besides high ambulance costs, in particular, the increasing reliance of the community on emergency services, even as volunteerism for them decreases. Though surrounding communities do have volunteer EMTs, Pawling does not.

"One of the good outcomes of this very precarious situation is going to be a realization on the part of members of the community that emergency services are extremely important," said Coursen, warning the town not to lose sight of the value of its volunteer fire department, which could one day face a similar predicament if a dwindling ability to recruit forces the town to switch over to paid firefighters.

"I ask all of you to please do your best to support all the members of the fire department."

Pawling News Chronicle

[helicopper 1,050]

Ouch! That doesn't paint a very favorable picture of Empire. 350K for what? One BLS unit or one ALS unit? Does anyone know what the service requirements for the contract are?

03/30/2007

Public health crisis averted 

By: Weston Berg 

The Pawling Town Board met in an emergency session last Friday evening to address a sudden public health crisis, as the state Department of Health deemed it, triggered by a sudden announcement by Empire Ambulance that it would be discontinuing emergency services to the town, creating a potentially perilous and unforeseen situation for residents.

Since December, the town had been receiving service through Empire for no charge and with no contract, under an agreement that it would continue to do so until April 1 while Town Supervisor Beth Coursen, through SEDAC, a consortium of officials neighboring Dover, Union Vale, and Beekman, prepared a request for bids seeking a regional ambulance provider that would service all four towns at an affordable rate.

But that all changed very suddenly last week, a few weeks after SEDAC's request went out, when Empire informed the town it couldn't afford to maintain the relationship and announced they would be discontinuing services in less than 24 hours.

The sudden news left the town board scrambling to find a new provider. Meanwhile Coursen bought time by convincing Empire to continue service up until 6 p.m. last Friday, the date of the meeting.

As a stopgap measure, the town board at the Friday meeting hired Northern Dutchess Paramedics up through April 1 at a cost $10,350. On Wednesday, March 28, the board will be meeting at 5 p.m. to choose among five proposals from emergency providers that would provide a slightly more long-term solution, with service from April through the end of the year.

The startling pull out from Empire left many on the board stunned, especially considering its stated agreement, recorded in past meeting minutes, that they would continue service to the town until April, which representatives had said could be sustained through insurance company payments.

"My speculation is that Empire believed that it would be rewarded the contract in absence of having to respond for our request for proposal," said Town Councilman James Benson.

"Empire made a very firm commitment that's recorded to provide us ambulance service free of charge for the first three months. We relied on Empire's assurances and we had no reason to believe otherwise."

Though a bid did come back from Empire, after it had made its jarring announcement, Coursen said it was far too expensive to act on in time.

"We pretty quickly got sticker shock," said Coursen, describing the consortium's reaction to the $350,000 bid that came back. The last time Pawling had such a contract was in 2005 with Alamo, for $127,000.

"When SEDAC made the announcement that we weren't awarding the contract in April, Empire did not take that well," explained Coursen.

Though Dover, Union Vale, and Beekman all currently have contracts until the end of the year, Pawling does not, making it the only town seriously endangered by the emergency.

Meanwhile, as Pawling prepares to make a decision that will ensure the safety of residents for the rest of the year, Coursen said SEDAC will continue to consider its proposals for 2008.

According to Coursen, the crisis highlighted a growing area of concern, besides high ambulance costs, in particular, the increasing reliance of the community on emergency services, even as volunteerism for them decreases. Though surrounding communities do have volunteer EMTs, Pawling does not.

"One of the good outcomes of this very precarious situation is going to be a realization on the part of members of the community that emergency services are extremely important," said Coursen, warning the town not to lose sight of the value of its volunteer fire department, which could one day face a similar predicament if a dwindling ability to recruit forces the town to switch over to paid firefighters.

"I ask all of you to please do your best to support all the members of the fire department."

Pawling News Chronicle

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[PVFD233 68]

I would think it would be between Alamo and NDP to get Pawlings contract, and with Alamo being in there before I would think Alamo would get it, we will see....

[jps385 0]

Not defending anyones actions but EMS isn't cheap.

24x7 ALS ambulance

4.5 Paramedics @ $50,000 with benefits =$225,000

4.5 EMTS @ $25,000 with benefits= $112,500

Equipment, Supplies, administrative support $50,000

Total $387,500

Billing 500 calls @$300 (thats a genrous assupmtion on collections) $150,000

Balance (requiring subsidy) $237,000

Dutchess county has benfited (or suffered) from ambulance wars for 10 years now which results in town receiving contracts whic were too good to be true. This has resulted in Sloper folding, Alamo was circling the drain unitil they started dropping these contracts, and NDP in bankruptcy.

In Slopers heyday they covers wappingers, fishkill (town and village) as well as New Hamburg as well as a few nursing facilites and some interecept work with 4 ALS trucks. Respnse times were very rarely an issue. Now this same area is covered by 9+ vehicles (with lower tax payer support). Response times haven't much improved, but you have 3 companies losing money hoping to force the other out and be leftw itht he whole pie. The pull out in Pawling is the first but probabbly won't be the last incident of this nature. If you go to other parts of the country these ambulance battles have left whole counties without coverage as comapnies go out of business.

Bottom line: EMS is an essential service which should be provided by municipalities. If billing can offset the cost great but that shouldn't dicate the service level. I won't cry for the Pawling town board (am concerned for the citizens) who have been playing games witht he subsidy for years.

[helicopper 1,050]

Does anyone know the call volume in Pawling? Does the FD still provide BLS-FR?

Kudos to the four towns for trying to seek a regional solution to the EMS problems up there! That's a great way to reduce costs - just look at the Northern Westchester consortium as an example.

[jps385 0]

Does anyone know the call volume in Pawling?  Does the FD still provide BLS-FR?

Kudos to the four towns for trying to seek a regional solution to the EMS problems up there!  That's a great way to reduce costs - just look at the Northern Westchester consortium as an example.

←

Pawling does 450-600 calls though that has dropped now private units are covering more of the NH calls. Techinically FD does first response but in 2 years there I saw them pretty infrequently and with a staffed bus we were ussually there first.

[Medic137 6]

As a stopgap measure, the town board at the Friday meeting hired Northern Dutchess Paramedics up through April 1 at a cost $10,350. On Wednesday, March 28, the board will be meeting at 5 p.m. to choose among five proposals from emergency providers that would provide a slightly more long-term solution, with service from April through the end of the year.

If NDP needed slightly more than $1,000. per day to cover until April 1, Why is the town board shocked at $350,000 per year?

[Medibart 55]

Not defending anyones actions but EMS isn't cheap. 

24x7 ALS ambulance

4.5 Paramedics @ $50,000 with benefits =$225,000

4.5 EMTS          @ $25,000 with benefits= $112,500

Equipment, Supplies, administrative support $50,000

Total                                                $387,500

Billing 500 calls @$300 (thats a genrous assupmtion on collections)  $150,000

Balance (requiring subsidy)  $237,000

Dutchess county has benfited (or suffered) from ambulance wars for 10 years now which results in town receiving contracts whic were too good to be true.  This has resulted in Sloper folding, Alamo was circling the drain unitil they started dropping these contracts, and NDP in bankruptcy. 

In Slopers heyday they covers wappingers, fishkill (town and village) as well as New Hamburg as well as a few nursing facilites and some interecept work with 4 ALS trucks.  Respnse times were very  rarely an issue.  Now this same area is covered by 9+ vehicles (with lower tax payer support).  Response times haven't much improved, but you have 3 companies losing money hoping to force the other out and be leftw itht he whole pie.  The pull out in Pawling is the first but probabbly won't be the last incident of this nature.  If you go to other parts of the country these ambulance battles have left whole counties without coverage as comapnies go out of business. 

Bottom line: EMS is an essential service which should be provided by municipalities.  If billing can offset the cost great but that shouldn't dicate the service level.  I won't cry for the Pawling town board (am concerned for the citizens) who have been playing games witht he subsidy for years.

←

Don't forget:

Benefit time - the employees take vacations and sick days, some of which is covered by OT

OT - crews get late calls

Supervision

Training time - mandatory and other compensated training sessions

Insurance

Vehicle depreciation

Vehicle costs - gas, repairs, insurance etc.

Equipment depreciation - lifepaks ain't cheap

Billing charges (8-12%)

Uniforms

You're right - a lot of other communities are going to have to deal with the same "sticker shock" as commerical providers decide that doing EMS for free is bad business.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

As a resident of the Town of Beekman I've been very interesting in what the plan is going to be and what the "vision" of the regional system is also going to be.

I feel for Pawling as the situation they are in makes it very uncomfortable being a service provider just backed out. Imagine what could happen if that ever occurred in Putnam! I am all for way for my government to find efficient ways to pay for things...but I am not one for sacrificing service and response to do so. I would rather see the service enhanced and pay a little more then save money and run the risk of not having the resources available if I or any of my family need it.

Funny how often regional EMS systems with system status management is a wonderful idea...discuss merging fire districts and adding career staff and watch the fireworks.

[201/65 94]

This article was dated 3/30/07, yet it say the town board will meet on 3/28. How does that make sense? Anyone know the out come? 5 bidders?

Empire

Alamo

NDP

Mobile Life?

No. Westcheter?

[jps385 0]

This article was dated 3/30/07, yet it say the town board will meet on 3/28. How does that make sense? Anyone know the out come? 5 bidders?

Empire

Alamo

NDP

Mobile Life?

No. Westcheter?

←

Empire, Alamo, Mobile, NDP and Transcare

[paratrooper75 41]

Empires in bad shape right now, I wouldn't be surprised if they close there doors in the next 6 months.

[Guest]

I don't think i would go that far just yet...but, if that were the case, Putnam would be in a world of $hit.

[64FFMJK 21]

NDP is no longer in pawling as of this morning. Alamo is covering the pawling area for now. Pawling does not operate a BLS bus they do respond to calls with EMT's however all transports are handled by private services. Now its just time to wait and see how long it takes Alamo to start droping calls in Pawling since several of the calls in Pawling that NDP got from DC911 were center for rehab private calls to Alamo that they had no units avalible for. I wish Alamo the best in Pawling.

[Beekman 5]

There's a whole lot more to this story. Alamo also promised Pawling a 12 minute back fill time. Beekman is already aware that Alamo had intended on stripping the Town of Beekman it's Alamo unit to fulfill this condition. Beekman is usually left with no ambulance and usually doesn't find out that the rig is gone until a call comes in for Beekman and the ambulance isn't around. Alamo has a contract with Center for Rehab (Pawling) and Greenhaven Correctional (Beekman) and is using the town ambulances to serve these contracts and is not backfilling the Towns. Alamo's contract with Beekman expires on 12/31 and I can guarantee you that the transporting of inmates with the Town contracted ambulance will be prohibited in the next contract. Alamo wasn't even being considered in the 4 town deal because of the games they continue to play. The games will become evident now that Alamo is back in Pawling. Ready to see Beekman's mutual aid EMS given calls to Pawling spike again? Listen! It was nice not having Alamo in Pawling.

Shawn Beresford

Chief, Beekman Fire District

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Shawn:

Good honest post bro. Then again I wouldn't expect anything less from a great fire service leader.

I know all to well..not just as a member of Beekman but also as someone who tested the waters of working per diem for Alamo when they took over Sloper and thier "operations." Someone discussed how Alamo let go of some contracts....Alamo often violated the terms of the contracts in regard to staffing and that was nothing knew from what I saw. I couldn't tell you how many times I was pulled as the last unit sitting in Wappingers to do a interfacility transport and get this...wheelchair trasnport when no wheelchair van was available. Or how many times when working in Pawling or Beekman that I was pulled from either town to cover a N.H. or greenhaven job only to sometimes pass the unit sent to backfill.

As I've said and I've pointed this out with my government representatives of the town...please do not try to establish a system just to save money for me as a taxpayer...I will pay more for public safety.

[Oswegowind 17]

Maybe it is time for the County to step in...Dutchess and Putnam! Putnam had the chance and was exploring it but then dropped to Empire an unproven private company that is spread out all over northern westchester, putnam, and dutchess...I mean come on...I rarely see a patient in the back of an empire ambulance and the other times they are flying through the town of cortlandt lights and sirens...where are you going...an accident doing something like that will definitely bankrupt them!!! Otherwise IMO dutchess and putnam should come up with countywide ems plans...Involving Volunteers and Career assests on one line and one frequency that can pull units in an SSM like setup. And they should attempt a mutual aid plan between the two counties considering their borders...sometimes the closest backup is not in the same county and the call volume in both is not overwhelming!!!!

As for cost...I say either you go into a contract as a private company, to make a dollar or you do it for free and take a loss every year! 350,000 to just cover expenses is silly, cover expenses, what about the capitalistic portion of the business...why get involved if you aren't making any money???? Private EMS companies are not there just to be there, someone went into it to make money...not for community service.

[64FFMJK 21]

  Otherwise IMO dutchess and putnam should come up with countywide ems plans...Involving Volunteers and Career assests

←

Dutchess does have a system but when contract services play games, and lets be real all of them do at one time or another, the county plan goes out the window. At one time I had heard that dutchess wants to have all EMS police and fire vehicles in the county GPS tracked and they mould monitor locations of all vehicles and private EMS would have to call out of service on a transport individualy and then THE CLOSEST UNIT regardless of who it is or who has a contract but I dont see this happening anytime in the next 5 to 10 years.

What is the story with the 4 town contract out in Pawaling, Beekman, Dover and Unionvale. is there a decision made about it yet or who are they looking at. What are they looking for in the way of coverage?

[Danger 160]

Here in Arlington, a few people here and there complain about the fire tax being a little high, but when you see something like this, you realize that it's a small price to pay for a highly trained system with 3 (or 4) BLS ambulances and a minimum of three (and sometimes as many as six) on duty medics. Maybe things like this should be the beginning of a wake up call to commercial EMS and towns alike: no more $125,000 contracts. Start paying enough to support having a pull-for-transport-proof ALS ambulance with a 15 minute backfill capability and start paying EMTs $15/hr. Either that, or start a municipal system. I think it was x635, though I'm not sure, who observed that towns would never contract out the parks or public works department but they'll throw out the health and safety of their citizens for peanuts.

[Beekman 5]

Here in Arlington, a few people here and there complain about the fire tax being a little high, but when you see something like this, you realize that it's a small price to pay for a highly trained system with 3 (or 4) BLS ambulances and a minimum of three (and sometimes as many as six) on duty medics. Maybe things like this should be the beginning of a wake up call to commercial EMS and towns alike: no more $125,000 contracts. Start paying enough to support having a pull-for-transport-proof ALS ambulance with a 15 minute backfill capability and start paying EMTs $15/hr. Either that, or start a municipal system. I think it was x635, though I'm not sure, who observed that towns would never contract out the parks or public works department but they'll throw out the health and safety of their citizens for peanuts.

Most towns, including the Town of Poughkeepsie, have contracted out the Parks Department and more are following suit. You also can't blame the Towns for paying what they pay. The providers set the price during the Sloper/Alamo war and now it's a war between new names. Beekman is paying around 30k for a 24/7 full ALS bus. The contract is for 45K but insurance coverage in Beekman is pretty good.

As for the 4 Towns, the prices came in between 660k to 1.7 million. No Town had that much money in their budget. It was for Beekman 24/7 and Pawling 24/7 with full ALS buses and Dover and UnionVale with ALS buses between 6 AM and sometime at night and it went back down to the 2 ALS buses in Beekman and Pawling until 6 AM. All 4 Towns agreed to resume talks in the summer/fall.

The other problem was all the freebies that certain companies were doing. The 4 Towns wanted to know why they have to pay when other Towns were getting the service for free and had little call volume. One of the free towns has an ALS bus go on stand-by for AFAs.

Arlington's system is part of the career system which is a curse word on the east side of the TSP.

As for the County-wide system- this was to be the beginning. Teh 4 was expcetd to grow. The hitch is that some Districts already hire their own (Arlington, LaGrange). These residents would be paying twice, once to their District and then to the County.

[BuffMedic236 0]

Well, part of what is going on with Empire is that their CEO, Bob Trainor has left them. I am unsure if he left on his own terms or was let go. It is the usual moves that this company has done through out the years. There was a reason that Empire's reputation was BAD! Yes, they tried turning it around, but what do you expect from the same management team that has let them fail over and over again. In this business volunteer or paid, management is everything!!!!

If they can't get themselves together, it's time to bow out gracefully and save face. I just hope they don't mess up Putnam. Cause if they do, you can kiss ESA goodbye, just like CMT and other of Mr. Trainor's now defunct companies.....

So much wasted potential.

[ems-buff 81]

So who won the contract???

[Guest]

The bottom line here is that EMS needs to be recognized by local governments as a service worthy of being under the auspices of the municipal system. That means a decent - livable - wage, union membership and strong representation, and benefit packages on par with Fire and Police. Its a deadly game of dollars and cents that both commercial agencies and local municipalities are guilty of perpetuating. Until someone is willing to bite the bullet and spend the cash to start formulating a civil service solution- i point the fingers at both parties.

Edited April 2, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[64FFMJK 21]

The 4 Towns wanted to know why they have to pay when other Towns were getting the service for free and had little call volume. One of the free towns has an ALS bus go on stand-by for AFAs.

←

Some of the issues are that the free towns are not paying so they do not have a dedicated bus they are getting units from comercial agencys as prt of a preplaned mutual aid just like when an engine is sent to a neghboring district on sertain calls, so when the AFA gets toned out alot of the time DC911 gets a call and is told no units are avalable. free towns are nuts if you ask me. The bids came in that high for a reason you want dedicated units and that is the way to go. I am waiting to see what is going to hapen to western Dutches county with several depts. depending on free service from comercial EMS and not having dedicated units and several of these depts. are now taking there BLS units off the raod and depending soley on a comercial unit that can be 20 - 30 minutes away. Even Arlington that has 3 buses is constantly running out of units and depanding on mutual aid to cover. I have seen responce times of 30 + minutes to calls that were dispatches as CPR in progress, what is the point. I am a Dispatcer and EMT for on of the comercial agancys in Dutchess and it is time that town boards wake up and realise that they are liable to provide coverage for thier townships. there have been some instances in other states were towns and their boards have been sued and payed HUGE setlments and then the volly dept was shut down and an all payed fire and ems dept was formed.

Also in some areas (Las Vegas and Denver) for a comercial agency to run 911 calls they have certain requierments such as a certain # of bariatric buses on at all times, specialy trained medics, and so on.

They need to wake up in this area and start planing now since at this rate I give vol. EMS 5 years and Fire posably 10 years in Dutchess. I know that EMS is easy to blame comercial agencies but who is going to get blamed when it takes 4 dispatches to get a crew out for a structure fire and this has already hapened several times in Dutchess County. The only true answer is going to be a complete redesign of the fire and EMS service in dutchess county. I am not in any means trying to say that there should not be vol. Fire and ems but some thing needs to be done befor we start paying with human lives.

Edited April 2, 2007 by 64FFMJK

[jps385 0]

Pawling loses ambulance service

Lack of money cited as cause; budget to get relook

By Leigh Gomez

Poughkeepsie Journal

PAWLING - The town has been without an ambulance service provider as of 6 a.m. Sunday, when services provided by Northern Dutchess Paramedics ended.

The first responders temporarily provided the town aid at a cost of about $1,200 per day, Supervisor Beth Coursen said. This was after Empire Ambulance Service canceled its services last week.

Empire pulled out, Coursen said, because the four-town consortium trying to arrange the service decided not to award a contract for 2007.

"Last week, we had a public health crisis in the town of Pawling ... now its a fiscal crisis as well," Coursen said.

An estimated $300,000 in service fees is required for the remainder of 2007. The town only has $150,000 budgeted.

Depending on neighbors

Until the town board finds a solution, residents must depend on aid from nearby communities, which Coursen finds "unacceptable."

"We are relying on our neighbors to pick up the slack," Coursen said. "You're asking them to pull out of their town to take care of our emergency calls and leave their community open and vulnerable for several hours."

The town board is looking at a way to cut back the budget, or make changes to the existing budget that would shift money to pay for the service fees, Coursen said. The town might also consider a short-term loan that it would pay back in 2008, she said.

Town officials will look closely at non-essential services, which may see some cuts. Coursen said non-essential services include library and recreation programs.

Gordon Rossland, a 64-year-old town resident, agrees some services should be cut if it means ensuring the safety of local residents.

"Some people that go in the ambulance use walkers. A lot of them are elderly and don't drive anymore," Rossland said, adding, "They rely on others for transportation."

He doesn't think a cut in library services is the solution.

"It's for the public," Rossland said of the library. "The children use libraries all the time."

If extra hours for the library can be cut to let residents have their own first responder, so be it, resident Katherine Posilippo, 84, said.

"What is more important? Somebody's health? I think so," Posilippo said.

Coursen said Pawling's ambulance provider received more than 700 calls in 2006.

"No town is legally responsible to provide ambulance services but there is a moral responsibility," Coursen said.

It sounds as though Pawling has come to grips with the cost of an ambulance. My guess is you will see other towns facing this reality as contracts come up for renewal.

[Guest]

"No town is legally responsible to provide ambulance services but there is a moral responsibility," Coursen said.

That statement is absolutely criminal. A government, elected by the people, is bound by a contract (thank you John Locke) to protect its people. We give them their power in return for our safety and wellbeing. That means properly funding and maintaining adequate Fire Protection, Police Protection AND EMS (think it as protection of life). Shame on the Pawling government for maintaining and expressing (through its allocation of funding and quotes like the above) such a short sighted and ignorant policy/practice towards the provision of EMS to its residents. This sorta of crap makes me sick.

Edited April 2, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[RWC130 594]

I am a little lost here...

Someone please fill me in...

PAWLING

-Northern Dutchess Paramedics ended.

-Empire Ambulance began.

Now Empire pulled out?

Didn't they just start?

"My speculation is that Empire believed that it would be rewarded the contract in absence of having to respond for our request for proposal," said Town Councilman James Benson.

"Empire made a very firm commitment that's recorded to provide us ambulance service free of charge for the first three months. We relied on Empire's assurances and we had no reason to believe otherwise."

What happened to "OUR PASSION IS CARING" ?

[Guest]

I THINK it goes somthing like this - its very confusing though...

Alamo had the contract and lost it to Empire

Empire was in Pawling for a few weeks then pulled out (not aware of the reason why)

NDP was brought in as a stop-gap measure until April 1

I was then told that Alamo started again in Pawling as of yesterday morning once NDP pulled out to continue the stop-gap while the contract was being re-bidded?

Edited April 2, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[x129K 1,393]

That statement is absolutely criminal. A government, elected by the people, is bound by a contract (thank you John Locke) to protect its people. We give them their power in return for our safety and wellbeing. That means properly funding and maintaining adequate Fire Protection, Police Protection AND EMS (think it as protection of life). Shame on the Pawling government for maintaining and expressing (through its allocation of funding and quotes like the above) such a short sighted and ignorant policy/practice towards the provision of EMS to its residents. This sorta of crap makes me sick.

Good post, I was glad to see that "elsewhere"..........

Edited April 2, 2007 by Ole129K

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Might be unethical but its not criminal unfortunately. Probably not the most political saavy thing to say either. Read up on NYS general municipal law regarding whom is responsible in towns with fire districts in regard to ambulance service. Most town's in NY are covered by fire districts which they have nothing to do with funding, the district collects fire taxes. Where is the fire district in all this also? Was there an agreement that the town would take over the responsibilities of providing EMS service? Would it be cheaper to maintain your own vehicles and contract personnel from another agency? If the ambulance covering my town which our tax dollars are paying for is or possibly was being yanked to cover another town regardless of situation...why isn't my town or fire district charging them a per use fee? I'm all for helping your neighbors but lets be real here.

One thing that is going to be interesting either way is what is going to happen when the grass is no longer green with a "regional" plan. One entity will eventually not feel as if they are getting their fair share, the response is too long, we're paying too much etc.

Some of the things that you are reading and seeing are nothing but the professions own faults. We do not explain what we do, how much it costs, the bickering that goes on, talk to some who were around when some of these companies first came in when the system was collapsed due to lack of other personnel. I've heard mulitple stories from multiple sides and most of them weren't very professional nor putting certain agencies members in good light. Long before I moved to where I live and joined my local department I had worked there as a member of Sloper and you would think I came from another planet or was the devil himself. Then in all things...the personnel at Beekman work their shifts in the Town Highway Dept. garage. Nice setting to sit in I'll tell you and I no longer work for any privates in Dutchess anymore and I still think its ridiculous that they keep an ambulance in there. I know this comment might piss off a few of my fellow members, but it is what it is.