Fire Responding to EMS Calls

[EE1 0]

Which fire departments in Westchester respond to all EMS jobs in their area? And what does everyone feel about the fire departments responding?

[lad12derff 283]

New Rochelle sends 1 engine on all ems calls. As for your second question nobody minds going on ems calls when people REALLY NEED us. I will leave it at that.

Edited March 28, 2007 by lad12derff

[EE1 0]

you don't feel that it might be scary and uneasy for the patient, who needs to remain calm, when there is EMS, police and fire all surrounding them. Sometimes the patient really needs to stay calm and this does not help.

[DOC22 1]

We respond on just about everything NSVAC responds to. We have over 25 members of the FD who are EMTs. So we back the VAC up on almost everything. Rescue 28 and MA 16 have a good amount of Medical Equipment and Supplies on board.

[Guest bibbles10504]

We have a fire and EMS department, depending on the call we run just a bus or an engine too. I dont think it would be a problem to have fire, police, and EMS there. I feel that we are all responsible enough to know what to do and where were needed. We dont need to be all standing over the patient.

[BedfordFire 7]

Our department has a bus and responds on both EMS and fire calls. On EMS calls, both 52-B1 and Rescue 44 will respond (our rescue has a substantial amount of medical equipment). If the call is an MVA, usually 52-B1, Rescue 44, and an engine will respond for traffic or a second set of hydraulic tools.

[Guest partyrock]

I get to be on both sides of this, riding in on EMS calls as a FF (I think they're getting ready to add a stretcher to my engine) and as an EMT on the "bambalance". As a ff, when its needed its great. When its another idiot playing the system or another intox it gets disheartening.

As an EMT there are good and bad CFR Co's. When you show up on scene and the Lt has all the info and an accurate pt history its smooth sailing all the way. Its also invaluable to the Pt when they are critical an patient care can begin sooner or we just simply need more hands.

As far as upsetting a patient, people feed of the people there to help. As long as they are calm and reassuring the patient and their family will usually remain calm. When the crowd of rescuers is an issue usually and hopefully someone has the sense to remove some people from the scene. This however is very rare and in my experience has never turned into a real issue.

[sr71 1]

where i live the fd responds to all medical calls along with the bus from norwalk hospital (or one of the mutual aide bus's from darien, new canaan, wilton, wesport, which is happing increasingly more often on those busy city nights) and the police also respond and issue patient care if they get there first. and in darien where i volunteer, the police respond to every call for help, and for ems calls us fire depts dont respond unless its for a lift assist or something, but post 53 (the vac) is the main ems provider in town along with als assistance from SEMS (stamford emergency medical services) or Norwalk hospital paramedics

sr71

[Guest]

Wouldnt mind having an engine company at job # 1, job # 2 (haven't pulled a shift yet) has an engine company respond and i hear they are very helpful. It's nice to have the backup, but in my experience working with engine companies (very limited experience in the North Bronx) they were often unneeded. If we (the ambulance) was o/s they would most often 10-92 (i think thats the code lol) themselves and just drive back to the house, if we were extended they often were o/s before us. Like partyrock said, its very nice and very helpful when you have an Lt. who has got a good patient history and a few FFs administering patient care, actually puts a smile to my face - this is how things should work! I can see where it becomes aggravating responding to EMS calls where the engine company is really not needed. But when the s*** does hit the fan - i can recall an incident where i was extended on an unconscious unresponsive apneic infant - the engine was invaluable.

[EE1 0]

I do not mean to sound offensive towards the involvement of the fire department on EMS jobs. I just remember a few months ago this topic was brought up and there were varied responses. My experience as an EMT working with the fire department on calls is a great one. The firemen I work with are great first responders and some are also EMT's. Some I can trust and some I cannot, that goes along with any job in life. We are always dispatched at the same time as FD and if we arrive on scene we usually cancel FD to put them back in service unless we need the extra hands. Obviously FD is needed on certian calls, especially MVA's.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

you don't feel that it might be scary and uneasy for the patient, who needs to remain calm, when there is EMS, police and fire all surrounding them. Sometimes the patient really needs to stay calm and this does not help.

If this was the case it wouldn't be the national standard that most big cities employ today, particulary the ones that do it right. You find me any patient that when they are having a significant illness/condition or injury that is calm to begin with. Most do not care and don't know what their emergency services compose of to begin with. When you feel you need help most could care less whether its an ambulance, fire truck, police car or the ice cream man that pulls up.

You want to know how valuable BLSFR from FD's are? Have an established program and then stop utilizing it. Providers will see and feel the difference and the public in areas where it is often used to get care there and started with ALS. Take that away and now you only have a medic sitting there and if no ALS units are available....no one.

The only thing I'd really like to add is that if you are going to do BLSFR...do it and do it right. You can no longer differentiate between an EMS call and a "fire" call. Resource management is the key and again as I've said in other posts this can and should be done on the fly. That heart attack call is more important then the fire alarm for the 3rd time from the nursing home.

Edited March 29, 2007 by alsfirefighter

[JBE 328]

you don't feel that it might be scary and uneasy for the patient, who needs to remain calm, when there is EMS, police and fire all surrounding them.  Sometimes the patient really needs to stay calm and this does not help.

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OK, dude, if you are a new EMT or FF, something you need to understand. A person that is in some sort of medical distress, be it a laceration to the leg, or a possible MI, is going to be all sorts of messed up emotionally. Hell yes it is going to be scary for them. A bunch of strangers in uniforms and turnouts hovering over them, not to mention the uncertainty about the condition they are in. Throw in the panicked relatives/friends, and this can turn into a major Charlie Foxtrot.

This is where you come in and GAIN CONTROL of the situation. Be professional about it. "Hey folks, do me a favor, could you all step back and give me/us a little room to check out your friend/relative" Hopefully, if you have an Engine Co. or a cop o/s prior to your arrival, they'll already be doing it. Introduce yourself, "Hi, I'm Jimmy, I'm a Firefighter/EMT/Paramedic and I am here to help you." Talk in calm tones, explain what you're doing while you do your assessment, and why you're doing it. If the patient becomes agitated, reassure them. Sometimes even a gentle touch on the arm or hand goes a long a way. When you begin the treatment, explain what you're doing and why. Answer the questions they give you with the same professional tone and this will defuse the situation and the patient will gain confidence they are in good hands. Granted, this is perfect world scenario, but it goes back to the basics of patient care.

There was a line I used that I picked up from my brother(Paramedic) when I was an EMT in LCFD. If I had a patient who said, "Am I gonna die??" I would smile and reply, "Not on my ambulance you're not." That told the patient I was going to do my best to take care of them and treat them like I would treat a member of my own family. It shows you give a f%&@ about them, even if you don't.

Many municipalities around the country have Engine and Truck companies that are trained as EMT's, others have Paramedic assesment Units. LA County runs the nearest available EMT level unit and Squad to any medical emergency. The patient may see the turnout gear, but at least they know they have someone to help them. If I am missing the point of your post, please feel free to correct me.

PS, for Alpha, it's 10-91.

Edited March 29, 2007 by JBE

[firemoose827 324]

you don't feel that it might be scary and uneasy for the patient, who needs to remain calm, when there is EMS, police and fire all surrounding them.  Sometimes the patient really needs to stay calm and this does not help.

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For years and years now, if anything goes wrong, fire, injury, illness, cat up a tree......who does the person call? Usually the fire department. I think that if the scene is controlled, and only the Crew Chief and a few helpers are with the pt than they wont get scared. Sometimes having a bunch of people there to help them assures the pt that someone cares. Just one answer to your question.

[SageVigiles 1,194]

In my department FD is special called to a scene if EMS requests us, and we'll usually bring an engine or the rescue, depending on whose response district it is. On occasion our FD will "buff" the call if the ambulance is en route from the hospital and will be taking awhile, if the call sounds too serious for the 2-3 man bus crew, or if there are multiple patients/crowd control issues. This is particularly important during the summer, where one pond in town is crowded with out-of-towners who don't like to move for ambulances (and actually tried to flip one once) so an engine is auto-dispatched with PD for crowd control. As for the routine EMS Assist calls, the patient usually finds it comforting to have Fire Department on scene to assist, and it usually makes the call easier when FD plays "gopher" and the EMS team can focus more on patient care as opposed to having to problem solve a good route out of the house, etc.

[helicopper 1,050]

In my department FD is special called to a scene if EMS requests us, and we'll usually bring an engine or the rescue, depending on whose response district it is.  On occasion our FD will "buff" the call if the ambulance is en route from the hospital and will be taking awhile, if the call sounds too serious for the 2-3 man bus crew, or if there are multiple patients/crowd control issues.  This is particularly important during the summer, where one pond in town is crowded with out-of-towners who don't like to move for ambulances (and actually tried to flip one once) so an engine is auto-dispatched with PD for crowd control.  As for the routine EMS Assist calls, the patient usually finds it comforting to have Fire Department on scene to assist, and it usually makes the call easier when FD plays "gopher" and the EMS team can focus more on patient care as opposed to having to problem solve a good route out of the house, etc.

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Interesting that your FD responds to crowd control situations. What exactly are you supposed to do to control these crowds? Do you train with the PD for this function? If someone is trying to flip an ambulance what does the SOP for your department state that you will do? If you or another FF is attacked or assaulted what does your SOP say then?

Several questions, I know. I find it interesting that your auto-dispatched with the PD for a PD matter and would be very interested to learn more about that relationship.

The "crowd control" scenario is an interesting one - the FDNY opted out of getting into any type of civil disorder/crowd control situations hence the establishment of civil disorder resources (read water cannons) within the NYPD (using old Port Authority CFR trucks, I believe).

Are there any more FD's around here with SOP's for civil disorder responses?

[msg88 4]

Briarcliff FD Ambulances respond with either Rescue 37(east side) or Engine 92(west side).