SCBA's Failing In Icy Conditions

[unleashedff248 3]

At the Somers working fire yesterday (3/7), I came to experience first hand SCBA's failing due to icing. My pack and the packs of other firefighters were completely frozen due to getting wet from water spray. The bottle turn on knobs were frozen in place (either on or off depending) and the masks themselves were useless. Straps turned into hard, unadjustable pieces of nomex. The masks wouldn't even get on your head no matter how hard you tried. Facepieces couldn't even be seen out of. The regulators themselves were also frozen and the purge knobs were stuck in place. The internals of the regulator facepiece were also frozen causing no air to come out of the pack when inhaling. The worst was that the pass alarms were completely frozen over. The buttons wouldn't press in. We use a combination of Scott 4.5'S and 50's with AV-2000 masks. The 4.5's are being phased out. Radios also stopped functioning due to the speaker mics becoming all frozen over. We use Motorola HT-1000's. The speaker mics themselves are very rugged and waterproof, but were no match for ice.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how these problems can be avoided besides warming the packs? Mine took over 20 minutes to defrost, and then became frozen over almost immediately once stepping outside. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to fix this. Anyone with more experience have any suggestions/experiences/stories?

Edited March 9, 2007 by unleashedff248

[Guest MRK303]

I’m currently a firefighter in a town outside of Burlington, VT. My dept. uses MSA packs but many other departments use Scott. The past few months we have been experiencing temperatures as low as -15 at nighttime with wind chills well below -30. These past couple of months we have had a few structure fires where interior firefighter’s masks would freeze before entering a structure. For those firefighters who are lucky enough not to have their packs freeze, these were the ones who went inside. After exiting the structure, we would have to run to the heated trucks before our packs would freeze to our gear. Our rescue trucks assignment was to defrost packs and give the firefighter’s unfrozen packs. There really is no great way to keep your mask, bottle or pack from freezing over. One thing to think about is, if you don’t need to be around the house (where waters flying everywhere), try and find a warm shelter (a truck, shed, car…)

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Very frustrating when this occurs. I have had a few instances of going from the cold exterior environment into the building (obviously warm) and have had blow off valves acuate where your blowing air into the atmosphere and can't stop it.

As far as the bottle knobs, you have to find a way to bleed the bottle if it has air in it so you can get the bottle off the pack and place it in a cab to thaw.

SCOTT recommends in freezing conditions to place your mask with its regulator on inside your turnout jacket so your body heat helps to stop the gaskets on the inside from freezing shut. The air in your cylinder has some moisture in it, but a very low percentage. What adds to the problem is once we utilize the mask, our exhaled air has a very high concentration of moisture that gets inside the mask and in the regulator to a degree. Placing it inside your coat should help somewhat, at least according to SCOTT.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Hold the valve down near... not right on top of... A rigs exhaust. That will thaw it for you. Just like a rig pumping a fire will melt asphault, it will thaw out your gear.

DON'T LEAVE THE GEAR UNATTENDED!!

[Remember585 815]

Good points, I have nothing else to offer but this:

1. Don't put the fire out.

2. Encourage Global Warming.

3. Revert back to the old "Leather Lungs" mentality.

[msm232 69]

I wouldn't exactly call that a failure.....Failure and SCBA is NOT a good combination of words. More like a Icing Condition which affects all firefighting equipment. Couple of things to check:

NFPA 1500 (Grade E) requires compressed beathing air to have a -73 degree dewpoint. That is the amount of moisture in the breathing air. This is one of the reasons why air compressors must be maintained on a regualr basis.

Check the age of the Air Pak......Pre-1987 Air Paks did not require the same low temp lubricants that the air paks are required to use today.

This kind of condition frequently occurs during this type of weather from water spray. You must be aware that this may happen and use precautions, such as keeping the mask and regulator in a mask bag/pouch. This will keep spray and ice buildup to a minimum.

Stay warm, stay low, stay safe.