Starting Out Resources At The Right Time

[HFD23 37]

Just wanted to point out that while listening to 46.26 before a certain north county department was dispatched to an address and there was a report of an explosion at that address with no further information and that particular chief signed on and requested to start out a neighboring Departments F.A.S.Team right off the bat. being that both departments are volunteer and there is that increased response time while members respond to the fire house to get rigs this greatly decreased the response time rather then waiting to get on scene and confirm what’s going on prior to starting them out.

The point is start out help you can always send them back. That’s what were all here for and if this had turned out to be a working incident the m/a would have been on scene a lot faster.. So hats off to this officer...

[scopino 0]

I agree, with what happened with that certain dept and it was a great call by the cheif. I sometimes think though, that to many depts are getting called to one scene. I understand the situations in the daytime, but the evening should be a different story. I mean at 8pm you have a room and contents fire in a hydrant area, do you need 4 or 5 other depts involved or just yours and a FAST. All I'm saying is that I think Mutual Aid is sometimes getting out of control. What do you guys think?

[Guest partyrock]

Its about knowing your area. If its well populated without multiple callers you can bet its not what it may seem like. Out in the sticks somewhere you may have to go by what one person calls in with. If you get multiple, then definately start turning people out.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Excellent point HFD and one that is often and has been discussed on this site a while back. Always worth bringing back up.

Another point to remember is that FAST can also be used for other incidents outside of the box of fires. Any type of incident where your members are going to be operating in an IDLH is a good time to have a FAST established. Things like CO calls and so on. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to use your mutual aid team for some of these...but you should have one established for safety and to assist in complying with the 2 in/2 out standard.

[Remember585 815]

ALS brings up a good point about FAST use at non-fires. I can recall two incidents where our FAST was utilized at non-fire incidents. One was in our own district on a hot Summer night where guys were investigating an odor in a Supermarket and the other was Mutual Aid where we staged while the "host" department resolved a minor haz-mat incident. In addition to incidents we have been to, our FAST is on all tech-rescue assignments in our district due to the vast training in that area our members have.

Calling of resources has been a never-ending debate. Knowing your district and your resources should guide you into making good decisions and getting what you need and not "over-doing it."

When it comes to FASTs it is too bad that nobody puts them on a standby (at the very least) for reported fires. Even in the paid system when you are responding from out of town you still lose time. If information on the way in sounds like a job, start them in to the scene and turn them around if you don't need them.

[firemoose827 324]

" I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

Around me we are starting to go to an auto-mutual-aid dispatch during the weekdays. Depts all over the county are starting it with their M/A depts to get a quicker, LARGER response.

We go with our neighbors to the north, wer'e simultaneously dispatched and the first officer on scene makes the determination.

Our county FAST???? We have it but there are a lot of stubborn pig heads out there who refuse to use it at all. Its a shame because we have a dedicated team, and they are always training but never called.

[Guest]

Our county FAST????  We have it but there are a lot of stubborn pig heads out there who refuse to use it at all.  Its a shame because we have a dedicated team, and they are always training but never called.

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I don't know about upstate, but there are many places in Westchester where FAST is underutilized. I know that some Dept's might not have a designated FAST unit, but any crew of trained FF's who are set aside and ready to go if need be can be good enough. Is a dedicated FAST unit the best? Of course, but anyone with a the core training and a little experiance can act in a rapid intervention scenario.

Edited March 10, 2007 by lfdR1

[antiquefirelt 994]

FAST is grossly under utilized in our area. On the other hand, auto iad and mutual aid is over used. Duriong my last shift a dept. to our south called in 4 m/a depts for a strucutre fire. At least two of these depts. sent 2 peices to the fire. Lateer the "host" dept. brought a bunch of SCBA bottles to our station for refill. The Capt. that brought them reported they had a mobile home fire! It was hard for the guys not to laugh in his face! In excess of 6 engines for a single wide mobile home fire! In the paper the next day it was reported that the fire destroyed the $13000 valued 1968 mobile home! For this 5 depts responded light and sirens from up to 15 miles! This is a tradgey waiting to happen! When will people learn to be realistic about what can be accomplished. Sadly this shows the lack of understanding of a true risk/benefit analysis which must include every part of the response, not just the fireground.

[Guest partyrock]

Sorry to Hijack the topic, but I see no other way.

Scenario:

Your company rolls up as FAST and the second you step out of the rig, A fire fighter puts out a mayday. Will you have what you need and will your level of experience suffice?

Remember, this is IN NO WAY bashing any other dept. Its just a good question that should be asked and if necessary, trained on. Why put another FF at risk when at least one neads help already?

In the interrum between initiating the fire attack and the arrival of the FAST is your dept ready to rescue a downed ff? Do they actually follow 2 in 2 out and have ff's outside ready to go or do they go with the loser version of "we have guys here who could gear up and respond as needed".

[RWC130 594]

I remember hearing this call come in. Yes, GOOD CALL on the Chief's part!

"Starting Out Resources At The Right Time"

What a great thread....

ALL of this can apply to Fire, Police, and EMS.

(Examples)

Fire: FASTeam, Tankers, Additional Engines & Trucks, EMS, PD, Haz Mat,

C & O Team, Tech Rescue, Marine Unit, Divers, Etc.

EMS: ALS units, STAT Flight, additional EMS units, FD, PD,

Trauma Alert to the ER, Etc.

Police: Additional PD units, FD, EMS, ESU, Detectives, Aviation, K9,

Marine Unit, Divers, Crime Scene Unit, Etc.

WHEN IT DOUBT SEND THEM OUT!

You can always return agencies or units if you don't need them.

[DOC22 1]

iI agree, that was an EXCELLENT call by that IC! I would MUCH rather get my chops busted about having too much than be sued for what would happen without it.

[Guest]

how many times do we go to these calls and i heard this incident being dispatch on a fire and a police frequincy. the home owner calls from the house and says i heard a loud explosion from down stairs/ basement . sometimes we get dispatched to a possible structure and others a possible oilburner malfunction. i think alot has to do with the build up of the call at dispatch. the ic did do a good job.

[eckyphats 0]

In my town we have 3 seperate fire dept's. for reported structure fires all 3 w/ 1 being RIT are automatically dispatched, extrication automatically get 2 depts off the bat. And we also have an established M/A protocal for target hazards, day time calls etc. It works great

[Guest]

FAST is grossly under utilized in our area. On the other hand, auto iad and mutual aid is over used. Duriong my last shift a dept. to our south called in 4 m/a depts for a strucutre fire. At least two of these depts. sent 2 peices to the fire. Lateer the "host" dept. brought a bunch of SCBA bottles to our station for refill. The Capt. that brought them reported they had a mobile home fire! It was hard for the guys not to laugh in his face! In excess of 6 engines for a single wide mobile home fire! In the paper the next day it was reported that the fire destroyed the $13000 valued 1968 mobile home! For this 5 depts responded light and sirens from up to 15 miles! This is a tradgey waiting to happen! When will people learn to be realistic about what can be accomplished. Sadly this shows the lack of understanding of a true risk/benefit analysis which must include every part of the response, not just the fireground.

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This Monday morning quarterbacking is unfair without an analysis of manpower versus apparatus.

If 6 engines arrived with only 2 firefighters apiece, thats barely enough manpower in my opinion.

The value of the mobile home is inconsequential if there is a victim trapped and you do not have the personnel you need to execute a quick, effective, and SAFE interior attack.