IL Departments Fire Trucks to Brake for Red Lights

[Guest alsfirefighter]

While this is already in NFPA 1500, many states still do not have this, NY of course being one of them. Its common sense and if you wreck NFPA 1500 can and probably will be used against you in civil court. So why doesn't NY wake up and add the provisions of NFPA 1500 regarding emergency response of apparatus to V & T law?

Illinois Department's Fire Trucks to Brake for Red Lights

Elgin firefighters rushing trucks and ambulances to emergencies with their lights flashing and sirens blaring soon will be adding a new step to their repertoire - stopping.

In a few weeks, all Elgin fire trucks and ambulances will be required to come to a complete stop at all red lights and stop signs, no matter what the emergency, Chief Mike Falese said.

"The few seconds later that we'll be getting to the scene is not a great deal of time," Falese said.

"Those few seconds can make sure that we get there a lot safer."

In 2005, nearly 30 percent of the country's 87 firefighter deaths occurred responding or returning from an emergency, according to the National Fire Protection Association.

In the past 10 years, the percentage of firefighters who died in transit has ranged from 19 percent to 35 percent of all firefighter deaths.

Elgin has not experienced such a death in recent years, Falese said.

"But we don't want to wait until that happens," he said.

The change was modeled after departments and best practices across the country, said Rudy Horist, an assistant chief in Elgin. Department officials researched 16 municipalities nationally, which regionally included Naperville, Hoffman Estates and Elmhurst, that already have made the change.

"We're just going to be taking a couple of extra seconds to help make sure we're safe," Falese said.

On most calls, coming to a complete stop at stop signs and red lights results in a "negligible" increase in response times, Horist said.

Although an Elgin ambulance was involved in an injury accident in December, the change was not inspired by it, officials said. The department has been working for about eight months on redefining its drivers' procedures.

"These amendments should decrease those accidents from occurring," Horist said.

Terry Mastandrea, president of the Illinois Fire Chiefs Association, said he was unaware of a state or national initiative to make the change, but he was aware of some departments making the switch. Mastandrea, chief of the Lake Zurich Fire Department, said most towns have installed technology that changes red lights to green for approaching emergency vehicles.

"We don't really have to go through any red lights anymore," he said.

Hoffman Estates Deputy Chief Robert Gorvett said all of the village's lighted intersections also have the technology. But drivers are taught to stop if the program does not work and at stop signs.

"Our theory is that you have the right of way once the other driver has given it to you," Gorvett said.

About one-third of Elgin's intersections now use the same technology, and more intersections are expected to be added in coming years.

But, Falese said, the technology is not perfect, and it does not work well when multiple emergency vehicles are approaching the same intersection from different directions.

"Our No. 1 goal is to get to a place of the emergency safely," Falese said.

"This will help us do that."

Edited February 6, 2007 by alsfirefighter

[Guest]

Its beyond me why anyone would blow a red light - i've always stopped at red lights. Always have, always will, no matter what. In fact, an ambulance blowing a red light almost hit my girlfriend last week!

Edited February 6, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[nycemt728 49]

Agreed, the few extra seconds just ain't worth it. For EMS especially, either they're stable enough to wait the few extra seconds to keep you alive or they're in bad enough shape that it wouldnt matter too much anyway. I was under the impression that there was somthing in NYS VTLs already, or was that only a strong suggestion? Maybe I'm remembering a reg from the NYC REMSCO, but I do remember somwhere in the city or state that it was mandatory. Anway, don't eat the reds, stay safe all!

Edited February 6, 2007 by nycemt728

[Guest]

The V&T does refer to proper emergency responses (thanks for reminding me NYC!):

© Except for an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle, the exemptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle while in motion by bell, horn, siren, electronic device or exhaust whistle as may be reasonably necessary, and when the vehicle is equipped with at least one lighted lamp so that from any direction, under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet from such vehicle, at least one red light will be displayed and visible.

During emergency operations every EMS response vehicle must be operated in such a manner and at such a speed upon approaching an intersection, controlled by a traffic control device so as to permit safe passage through the intersection. Before entering the intersection the operator must reduce the speed of the vehicle to be able to stop the vehicle if necessary to permit such safe passage. They should come to a complete stop if they have a red signal or stop sign.9

9 NFPA 1500 4-2.7( ©

http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/ems/policy/00-13.htm

This is for EMS, i don't know about fire.

Edited February 6, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[HFD750 6]

Shouldn't you be stopping anyway? I mean it's common sense and the law. But then again common sense is hard to find.

[ajsbear 11]

Red Light, Stop Sign etc. Stop then proceed with siren etc. Remember if you don't get there it does not matter. That extra 1/2 second doesn't mean anything if someone smacks your rig. And ALS is correct, if you don't think some smart a@# lawyer isn't going to throw up NFPA 1500, well think again.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

NYS law states you only have to slow down. It doesn't not state you have to come to a complete stop.

The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:

    1. Stop, stand or park irrespective of the provisions of this title;

    2. Proceed past a steady red signal, a flashing red signal or  a  stop

  sign,  but  only  after  slowing  down  as  may  be  necessary  for safe

  operation;

HFD...the point is it is not "NYS Law." They need to update the language in the law to what is in NFPA 1500 and knock off the grab assing. Nothing can nor should be left up to "common sense" when it comes to the safety of firefighters and the general public.

Alpha...I'm not referring to the "blowing of a red light," as you can tell I'm referring to poor legal wording.

As far as fire, there is no governing body as in EMS with DOH. In fact the Commissioner of the NYFD made a statement that in effect said he didn't want his apparatus to come to a complete stop at red lights and stop signs as the union called for because it wasn't necessary under NY State law and it was increasing response time. Nice Mr. Commissioner. Bravo Union Prez.

Edited February 6, 2007 by alsfirefighter

[Guest partyrock]

"Elgin has not experienced such a death in recent years, Falese said.

"But we don't want to wait until that happens," he said."

This is different.

[348 4]

For those that attented the Elmsford seminar I recall from a video that Hoffman Estates was involved in the fatal accident involving 2 fire apparatus while responding to a garage fire. Chief Goldfedelder stated that the dead Lt's estate was being sued by the firefighters that survived. Unfortuntely this mandate is to late for the LT.

[HFD750 6]

alsfirefighter are you always just one big ray of sunshine?

[firecapt32 282]

As bright as the north star lol.

Edited February 6, 2007 by firecapt32

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Just remember my motto....

Its better to start off the day slightly agitated....that way anyone can make your day better. Start off happy, and all it takes is one prick to ruin it.

[helicopper 1,050]

Its better to start off the day slightly agitated....that way anyone can make your day better.  Start off happy, and all it takes is one prick to ruin it. 

←

Hey, ALS - Consider that motto stolen for duplication!!!

As for the law, the scary part is this (from section 1104 NYS VTL):

(e)  The  foregoing  provisions  shall  not  relieve  the driver of an authorized emergency vehicle from the duty to drive with due regard for the  safety of all persons, nor shall such provisions protect the driver from the consequences of  his  reckless  disregard  for  the  safety of others.

If you have an accident while engaged in an emergency operation and exercising the privileges granted an emergency vehicle I am willing to bet that any lawyer will cite this section (e) and accuse you of "reckless disregard" for "running a red light" or whatever else. Then they'll bring in a troop of "experts" who'll all cite NFPA, or EVOC, or Defensive Driving, or good ol' common sense and say that they absolutely stop for red lights and stop signs. End result - you're royally and thoroughly screwed! And, if you're found to have violated this section, I bet alot of insurance companies won't cover a claim because you were negligent and/or reckless.

Mastandrea, chief of the Lake Zurich Fire Department, said most towns have installed technology that changes red lights to green for approaching emergency vehicles.  "We don't really have to go through any red lights anymore," he said.

Hoffman Estates Deputy Chief Robert Gorvett said all of the village's lighted intersections also have the technology. But drivers are taught to stop if the program does not work and at stop signs.

About one-third of Elgin's intersections now use the same technology, and more intersections are expected to be added in coming years.

What baffles me is that New York, one of the richest States (read most taxed) in the country, doesn't have this technology on all state roads and major local roads! With all the other nonsense they put out there, you'd think this is a no-brainer!

In 2005, nearly 30 percent of the country's 87 firefighter deaths occurred responding or returning from an emergency, according to the National Fire Protection Association.

In the past 10 years, the percentage of firefighters who died in transit has ranged from 19 percent to 35 percent of all firefighter deaths.

This is one scary statistic that we should all be fighting to change! Better training, better policies, and more attention to the problem is definitely required with these kinds of senseless deaths!

[IzzyEng4 427]

NY law states you only have to slow down????? CT says we can proceed through an intersection at a red light after we make sure we have the right away therefor stoping at all traffic signals before preceding! All I have to say is wow, rules have to bee written better for you guys.

[HFD750 6]

Just remember my motto....

Its better to start off the day slightly agitated....that way anyone can make your day better.  Start off happy, and all it takes is one prick to ruin it. 

←

I gotta say I like that...

[Guest alsfirefighter]

If you've been in my classroom you've heard my motto.

Chris...no problem. I think we've known each other long enough. Use away...just remember the instructor rule we live by. You give credit to the person who originated it 3 times. After that it was your own idea. lol.