Firefighters strive to turn Tide on soap

[Guest]

Firefighters strive to turn Tide on soap

By Frank Cerabino

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Friday, January 26, 2007

A local firefighters union has filed a class-action grievance against Palm Beach County for switching the laundry soap it provides at station houses.

"We have in our labor contract that our soap has to be a high-quality laundry detergent," said union spokesman Armand Nault.

For the past 23 years, the county bought Tide detergent for its firefighters and paramedics. It's the laundry soap used to clean their bedding, wash their work gear and ride with the county fire-rescue hazardous materials response teams.

But a few months ago, the county's purchasing department decided to put the laundry detergent contract up for competitive bid.

"It's hard being purchasing, because people want what they want," said Kathy Scarlett, the county's purchasing director.

But Scarlett figured she was saving the county $4,000 for the year by switching to the low bidder, a Georgia company that provided a detergent named Blue Wave Ultra.

"We did an evaluation," she said, "and made sure that the salient characteristics were similar to Tide."

A wave of uniform complaints

But the new laundry soap didn't go over well with firefighters, and within a couple of months, Scarlett began getting e-mailed complaints.

"My uniforms don't smell fresh," one firefighter wrote.

"It doesn't bubble," another complained.

The firefighters union picked up on the complaints and used spectrometer analysis to test the new laundry soap. Their analysis, said Nault, showed that the new soap was not suitable for decontamination, had inconsistencies between samples and contained chemicals that would be corrosive to station washing machines. Also, one fireman complained of getting contact dermatitis from it.

"You put stuff out for bid and this is what happens," Nault said. "It was all labeled Blue Wave Ultra - and most of it wasn't blue."

The Professional Firefighters/Paramedics of Palm Beach County (IAFF Local 2928) forwarded its complaints to Deputy Chief Steve Jerauld, who handles labor relations for Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue.

"We hate airing our dirty laundry in public," Jerauld said.

But he agreed that there were inconsistencies in the new soap.

"We take health and safety concerns very seriously," Jerauld said. "Unfortunately, this is out of our hands. The decision falls on county purchasing."

County buys into self-analysis

Faced with complaints, the county sent a 5-ounce sample of the new soap to Kor-Chem, the Atlanta-based manufacturer that makes Ultra Blue Wave but doesn't list it among the products on its Web site.

The company analyzed the Blue Wave Ultra sample and found it to be within "quality specification ranges" and "acceptable for use in laundry applications."

Kor-Chem President John Fitzwater said Thursday that he was aware of the complaint, and that his company would be willing to sell the county another one of its products to replace Blue Wave Ultra.

"But we find it to be sufficient," he said.

Based on the company's analysis of its own product, Scarlett denied the request to switch back to Tide.

But she had no idea that the firefighters had been doing their own analysis, and had contacted Procter & Gamble, the manufacturer of Tide, to help it pitch for their old soap.

"If there is something that is causing harm, especially to our nation's heroes, I'm not going to let something bad happen," Scarlett said. "But so far, I haven't seen any indication that there's any harm."

Deputy Chief Jerauld said it's clear that things need to be ironed out.

"We'll have to see what comes out in the wash," he said.

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Just when you thought you've seen it all. These guys are complaining cause their soap doesn't "bubble up?"

I can understand the Haz Mat angle but the rest of the argument is complete nonsense. Its guys like this the tarnish it for everyone else.

Thoughts/Comments?

[JohnnyOV 2]

And people ask me what I mean when i say being in the fire department down here in FL is A LOT different then back home in NY.

[gss131 212]

Good for them!

[firecapt32 282]

I would have done the same thing---- good for them. if the department was dumb enough to have something like that in writing. they deserve the grivience.

when i was union president I had a firefighter put in a grivience because he didnt like the smoke detectors in the building. he wanted photo electric because it didind harm the atmosphere

[lad12derff 283]

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Just when you thought you've seen it all.  These guys are complaining cause their soap doesn't "bubble up?" 

I can understand the Haz Mat angle but the rest of the argument is complete nonsense.  Its guys like this the tarnish it for everyone else.

Thoughts/Comments?

←

What if they breached your contract kingsixx? Your job tells you they will supply all 9mm handguns to all it's officers then some dumbass in purchasing say's "we can save a ton of money supplying them with 22's what's the difference" That is why we have contracts, as silly as this sounds someone gave it to them and they are entitled to it.

[JBE 328]

I think guns, and detergent is one of those apples and oranges things. Personal opinion, you don't like the stuff you're given, you make your own or use your own.

[Guest]

What if they breached your contract kingsixx? Your job tells you they will supply all 9mm handguns to all it's officers then some dumbass in purchasing say's "we can save a ton of money supplying them with 22's what's the difference" That is why we have contracts, as silly as this sounds someone gave it to them and they are entitled to it.

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LOL.... Dude, I could understand if they were switching the types of hose, ladders, handtools, nomex gear or even batteries for flashlights for cheaper versions. Then they would have something to gripe about. But laundry soap? Give me a break. If all those boys have to worry about is how many suds the soap produces then maybe they're not being kept busy enough.

By the way, you can't really compare ammunition to soap. Pick a better analogy next time.

[Guest]

Maybe there's a bigger issue at hand, or something that's not mentioned in the press.

Although you can't compare ammunition to soap, decontamination of gear and equipment is quite important. Given the fluids and chemicals I'm exposed to, I want it out of my stuff. If a cheap laundry detergent wasn't doing the job, I'd be upset too.

It may be trivial to you, but sometimes the little things play a big part.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Velocity

[helicopper 1,050]

Just curious - how did they measure the bubbles? Was it the size of each bubble or the total number of bubbles? Did they average it out per gallon of wash water? How did they count them? If a bubble popped after being counted, did they have to start over?

Seriously, if the soap doesn't measure up and they were smart enough to put that in their contract more power to them!

It's just a shame it's getting media attention. With unions battling for healthcare coverage and pay increases, this makes them appear petty to the average, uninformed person.

By the way, the type of gun and ammunition that I am issued isn't in my contract.

[Guest]

Interesting story. Don't know much about the chemistry surrounding detergents as they relate to haz-mat decontamination, so i'm not going to comment on that. Now, I'm not very particular about detergents - i usually buy whatever is on sale/cheapest or buy the Kirkland (costco) brand. I washed my duty uniform at work once and they supply a powered industrial brand detergent - while it does its job its not exactly garment/user friendly. It left my uniform very stiff, washed a significant amount of the color out and left everything smelling something less than "fresh." While this may seem trivial, its always nice to throw on a clean and fresh smelling uniform. So, while i understand the gripe in terms of smell/quality of the wash, i dunno if its really that much of a problem where i would go to the union (like i said, the haz-mat aspect of this is a whole different ball game, and something i know nothing about so I'm not gonna comment!). I just went out to CVS and bought a small thing of ALL and some softener for my personal use if i have to use the washer, those who don't favor the county supplied detergent could purchase their own.

Edited February 6, 2007 by 66Alpha1

[gss131 212]

it may may seem trivial,but its not.when dealing with contracts and items are not being upheld(lowest bidder)such items need to be grieved.,and if things are not being done the right way,you dont buck up and provide it yourself.where then would you draw the line.This seems to be more of a union topic,and those that aren't part of or haven't been a part of a union might not understand this concept.Those that attended the Andy Frederics seminar heard Billy Goldfeder talk about the seriouseness of decon of clothing in the firehouse and not in your own home.So, Like i said ,good for them.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Once again, are we really fighting over something as arbitrary as SOAP.

As far as I know and have been taught by all 4 departments I am affiliated with, regular tide / soap does not do the job to properly de-con equipment. Special soap need to be used in order to properly decon your equipment. Budget for the lowest cost house soap, and the proper de-con soap as well, which will get use less often, because you're not washing your bed spreads with it anymore. In turn you will most likely still be saving a bunch of money.

That being said, if all you need to wash with this "high quality soap" is your towels, bed sheets and what not, why spend an extra 4g's a year of your tax payers money on great smelling soap, when after 2 year of saving that money, you can purchase a TIC, or after one year, replace a worn out piece of equipment.

I think some departments (mine included) need to get their priorities straight on a couple of issues, and I also think that if you are in the fire department to get a great smelling uniform, you're in it for the wrong dang reason.

Edited February 6, 2007 by EMSJunkie712

[Guest partyrock]

Even at my brokest, sleeping on a mattress on the floor on an over crowded house I still spent the money on good laundry detergent. It was worth the extra money over the cheap stuff to me. That being said, yeah soap is pretty arbitrary, but it is contractually provided by the county. Any time the powers that be try to reduce the quality of what they provide we should be saying something. Yes their job is to save money but it should never sacrafice the quality that we recieve. If you sweat the small stuff the big stuff begins to take care of itself.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Give an inch they will take a foot on a contract. Give them a foot they will take a half mile.

Simply stated, they said high quality detergent in their contract, they agreed to it. Has anyone else heard of this detergant? I think high quality I'm thinking Tide, even better Tide w/ Bleach. Not "Blue Wave Ultra." Which funny enough I believe I seen it and to be honest...its not the same. What if they have and I'm willing to bet that department is well out-fitted and above and beyond what I and many of my brothers and friends are dealing with in municipal FD's here in NY. As far as decon, there are speciality detergents out there for turnout gear and there is an additive for bloodborne pathogens. However, tide is listed by many manufacturers as a approved detergant and it works well, especially with a little 10,000 mule team borax additive.

As far as bubbling goes, you can see the difference in suds, vs. none at all. Ask anyone with water softner systems. Different detergents stand up better to hard water.

It may seem a little petty to some...but who knows what relationship they have had in regard to their contract with the County leadership in the past. Sometimes the most miniscule things can mean something in the end to labor/management. Anyone who operates under a contract knows this.