Proby School to be extended..

[tbendick 27]

From the Mayors report yesterday.

Over the past five years, the FDNY has reduced fire deaths in our city to the lowest number during any five-year period in modern history. The members of the FDNY are famous for always working to find better ways to carry out their mission. We share that commitment. And that's why this year, we're going to launch a major expansion of FDNY training. Currently, our newly appointed firefighters receive 13 weeks of training.

This year, we'll start to lengthen that to 23 weeks. That will give FDNY recruits one of the most comprehensive training programs offered by any fire department anywhere handling hazardous materials, and fire prevention with extended instruction in terrorism preparedness.

[Guest]

Mr. Bendick,

I heard that this was going to be done in steps, starting with the March '07 class being 18 weeks and then the Summer '07 class being 23 weeks. Is this the case?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

WOW. That's awesome. Hats off to FDNY for being very progressive. That is the type of change that needs to be seen in the fire service.

[tbendick 27]

LFDR1...

That is the word as of now.. Next proby class will around 16-18 weeks followed by a class in Sept that will be 23 weeks.

alsfirefighter...

In a way this is not a good thing and is bad for the new people getting on..

What they will be doing is giving alot of the classes, ones which you would normaly go back to proby school for, during the proby school.

Breaking this down some..

Proby in school gets 25K a year. Which means they will bring home less the $600 every two weeks. When you get of school you get a small pay jump, don't have the chart with me, but it's better then nothing.

So now depending on which company you get assigned, you may have to go back to school for classes such as SOC, Decon, Hazmat, etc. However you are now getting paid more. Even going to chauffer school, you would be getting a higher payrate.

So with the new plan, they will teach as much of this stuff to everyone, which would be at a lower payrate and save money..

Some other ways they are saving money.. Depending on the type of unit, Decon, SOC, etc. You need so many trained members working, if you don't meet the number, then you swap. So Lad X has only 2 trained and 3 not. Lad Y has 5 trained. X sends 1 not trained member to Y and Y sends 1 trained to X. This costs the city money to send members from one house to another. Now they will have all the new probies trained and send them saving money.

So in the end this all comes down to the city saving money and screwing FF's..

[mustang22_2002 21]

That's just great !! Anyway to save money I mean there not even paying as it is now they wanna save even more money . I'm supposed to be in that next class in March And right about now I'm having second thoughts. I don't think I will be able to live on 600 dollars every to weeks for the hole probie school and when they change it to 23 weeks wow thats really gonna be bad unless you live at home still . It might even still be a problem . I think they need to do some great negotiating this contract cause it''s supposed to be the best fire dept. in the world and they just about pay the least . I just don't understand I've wanted to be a fireman ever since I was a kid , 2 of my uncles were paid frieman and alot of my family are voulunteers , so it's been im my family for a long time . I have taken many tests but no residency so guess what no hire even if you score better then someon else that has residency. I just don't get it . So now I have the chance to take the greatest job on the world and not sure if I can live off the pay. Just don't know what else to say

[Guest]

gotta take the good with the bad, i guess. like alot ppl say, "its not about the pay" and thats def. true, BUT unfortunately, money talks, and you need it to survive, especially on your own (and not to mention the cost of living in/or around this area)! so anyone who says money isnt an issue at all, should start thinking things through! otherwise you can do what my cousin did: work the job (and no others) and live in the garage in your parents backyard! OR, do what my uncles have done: work the job, and even though its "frowned upon", get a second source of income....

i know exactly how it is for it to be in the blood and in the family tradition, but its just one of those things, and its def. unfortunate, but it is what it is..........for now

[mustang22_2002 21]

Well what is the rule in the FDNY about workin a 2nd job part time ?

[Guest]

LFDR1...

That is the word as of now..  Next proby class will around 16-18 weeks followed by a class in Sept that will be 23 weeks.

alsfirefighter...

In a way this is not a good thing and is bad for the new people getting on..

What they will be doing is giving alot of the classes, ones which you would normaly go back to proby school for, during the proby school.

Breaking this down some..

Proby in school gets 25K a year. Which means they will bring home less the $600 every two weeks.  When you get of school you get a small pay jump, don't have the chart with me, but it's better then nothing. 

So now depending on which company you get assigned, you may have to go back to school for classes such as SOC, Decon, Hazmat, etc.  However you are now getting paid more.  Even going to chauffer school, you would be getting a higher payrate. 

So with the new plan, they will teach as much of this stuff to everyone, which would be at a lower payrate and save money..

Some other ways they are saving money..  Depending on the type of unit, Decon, SOC, etc.  You need so many trained members working, if you don't meet the number, then you swap.  So Lad X has only 2 trained and 3 not.  Lad Y has 5 trained.  X sends 1 not trained member to Y and Y sends 1 trained to X.  This costs the city money to send members from one house to another.  Now they will have all the new probies trained and send them saving money.

So in the end this all comes down to the city saving money and screwing FF's..

←

Tommy according to our contract they only pay the probies the 25K rate fo pay for 13 weeks. Then they get that small bump. So the first 13 weeks they get the 25k salary, then the rest of the time they get paid the same as the new guys are now when they get out to the firehouse.

[mustang22_2002 21]

Tommy according to our contract they only pay the probies the 25K rate fo pay for 13 weeks.  Then they get that small bump.  So the first 13 weeks they get the 25k salary, then the rest of the time they get paid the same as the new guys are now when they get out to the firehouse.

←

So the 25k isn't a year ? it's just for the 13 or 18 weeks whatever the academy is ?

[Amato122 0]

I'm hearing rumors (and these are only rumors!) that they're going to add EMS TOPS class to FF training for the inevitable complete FD takeover of EMS. Yes for better or worse NYC firefighters will soon be riding amBOlances as EMT's. It makes sense, 3months current fireground traing + 2 months current TOPS class + 1 month anti terrorism class=roughly 23 weeks.

I'm not an official source of info, I'm only going by what I heard. I've also heard they might be adding LCC/ECC/EVOC, however, I highly doubt this since new probies would be getting detailed to houses in some cases as the only chauffer available. In FDNY EMS you're lucky if you get EVOC'd after 6 months riding the bus, so I doub't FD is interested in training chauffers in the academy. I know the city on the BLS level at least, would love to streamline EMS and start putting FF's on the bus. FDNY will go the way of Chicago, LA, and DC. Probies will be stuck doing "domino pains" and "allstatitis" on the ambulance and there will also be paramedic engine companies.

I for one am not in agreement with this. I say bring back the HHC or at least make EMS a seperate service. Fire and EMS are both totally different jobs that require a totally different personality type, and totally different skill sets.

[Guest partyrock]

EMS = 9 wks Fire = 13 mks thast all ready 22. Wait, I forgot the week of CFR now its 21. Oops then again the first two weeks EMS is EMT refresher. We're going to have to teach all the probies to be EMT's before we can even begin the EMS academy. So now turn the two weeks refresher into 4 wks EMT cert I'm up to the 23 wks. EMS and Fire are not meging any time soon. It is the rumored intention of the powers that be, but it has never been mentioned in the dept's master plan.

There are talks concerning the viablility of ALS engines, but current FDNY ALS protocols make those plans impractical and the firefighters union is opposed to it. CFR engines went through because they got FDNY the response times they needed and proved to be an inexpensive and effective option. (I still hate CFR runs, but they do work in true emergencies)

Since the merger response times have dropped, training has improved, and the level of pre-hospital care has been increased. If you can get past the controversy of the "hostile takeover" of EMS and look at the numbers EMS has improved since 96. Wether or not those changes would have occured without the merger is up for speculation, but whats done is done.

[mustang22_2002 21]

What are the hours / schedule of the academy ? What are the hours / schedule when you get out of the academy ?

[tbendick 27]

FDNY99,

I guess I would have to get a copy of the current (expired) contract and check the wording. Everything we have been hearing is that it's for the lenght of proby school..

The other problem would be that if it does say 13weeks, you could bet the city will try to change it in the new contract.

mustang22_2002,

The academy runs 5 days a week. If it's a large class they will run two groups one early and one a little later. I would have to ask what the hours are I can't remember.. The also have been doing 1 day a week at Fort Totten for the CFR training.

As far as the EMS thing, this is just speculation.. Everyone is wondering how they are going to fill the extra time.

[mustang22_2002 21]

What are the hours / shifts when you get out of the academy ?

[Guest]

What are the hours / shifts when you get out of the academy ?

←

You are assigned a group number (group chart is 1-25) and you work the chart which is 2 9 hour days 24 off 2 15 hr night's 72 hrs off.

[Guest Truckie93]

What are the hours / schedule  of the academy ?

←

When they break the class into two companies, the early company starts at 6 and ends at 4, and the late company starts at 8 and ends at 6. You HAVE to be 1 hour early and you rarely get out on time so 5-4:45 and 7-6:30 is more realistic.

You never get stuck with just the early class or just the late class. The Drill Instructors switch the scheludes up every few weeks so you will be the early company and the late company.

The regs now read that you can not hold a second job while you attend probationary firefighters school. So once you get out...

Edited January 27, 2007 by Truckie93

[tbendick 27]

Just an updated. The March class is slated to be 18weeks.. They had the increased funding in the new budget documents.