Seat Belt Policies - Design Ideas

[x152 179]

I was hoping to get some insight from the various members of this site as to what their Department's present policy is with regard to seat-belt use? (Mandatory, optional, not addressed?)

As a proponent for apparatus seat belt usage (at all times), I am very critical of their design and the lack of consideration for the practical needs of the fire service.

In short, we spend a tremendous amount of time and money to make apparatus safer (all good stuff), but we still have standard "automotive" type seat belts being installed on fire apparatus.

The last time I checked, a fully outfitted fire fighter fills a far different space than John Q. riding in his Lexus. Yet, the seat belts are basically the same.

Have any of the area Departments done anything unique to specify "better" seat belts on their new rigs or been able to find suitable belts for retrofit to existing apparatus?

Thanks in advance.

[STAT213 332]

We have a mandatory seat belt policy in place. Rig doesn't move until all members are belted in. No exceptions. Our newest Pierce seems to have the buckles placed a little further out from the seat itself, which makes it easier. The older trucks are definately more difficult to use, but it is still mandatory.

[nycemt728 49]

Not a FF, but EMTs are faced w/similar issues. Not many buckle up while riding in back w/ a patient yet it would seem logical and prudent to do so. Those who I ask indicate that if it is not simply laziness, it is due to a desire to be mobile while tending to the patient. The current squad bench design does not lend itself to a good combination of saftey and pt care.

Seatbelt use in my ambulance companies is mandated.(and I'm pretty sure its state law as well) Enforcement is the responsibility of the crew chief and driver. Beyond that, there is no oversight.

As for design, the pretty sure the AEV saftey concept ambulance, (http://www.aev.com/uploads/safetymod.pdf) produced in conjunction w/ AMR are being produced with a 4 point harness similar to a jet or other high speed vehicle. As someone who has been saved by a fellow EMT catching me when the ambulance stopped short, I'm not sure how conducive these are to patient care, but if I can reach the patient with one on, I'm all for it! When I took CEVO recently, I was informed by the instructor that this would be becoming the industry norm for all new ambulances w/in a few years.

Like X152 i think seat belts are extremely important. I find it hypocrital that we can lecture the public on its "benefits" and not use them ourselves when there is a good chance we will be engaging in higher risk driving. I realize this is not FD related as the origional post, but the issue is similar and the concern equally important. If this needs to be re-posted in a seperate EMS thread, I welcome that.

Edited January 2, 2007 by nycemt728

[nycemt728 49]

Sorry, browser double posted.

Edited January 2, 2007 by nycemt728

[x635 4,066]

Great points by x152.

I've always thought about that too....that we're using commonly a regular seat belt with regular automotive mechanisms to secure ourselves, our gears, and sometimes our packs.

I haven't seen better seatbelts, or even heard of better seatbelts, other then the recent NFPA reccomendation of red strap adjustable seatbelts. The only thing I remember seeing in concept online somewhere was a racecar style harness, that was easy and quick to apply and remove, and was a lot more secure then an average seatbelt.

The other thing I really like is the no-pack seats. These allow you to actually fit more securely in the seat, and allows the regular seatbelt to do its job, better then a pack seat where your only sitting on the front half of the seatbottom.

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Edited January 3, 2007 by x635

[mstrang1 213]

All good points about seat belt usage. As I have posted in a previous thread on the topic, I once got scolded (!!?!?!?!) by an officer (!!!!) for WEARING my seatbelt while responding to an alarm. He said I did not trust the driver by wearing it! But I digress, I always wear it, usually by flipping the shoulder straps of the SCBA over my shoulders before strapping myself in with the belt. Or, I wait until we arrive on scene if we are already on the road.If you are not carfeul, you can accidentally tangle yourself in the waistbelt of the SCBA and the seatbelt.

On another safety note, I remember seeing in Fire Engineering a manufacturer is producing a cab with air bags(both front and rollover/side curtain). I cannot remember the manufactuer or find the ad. Either way, if anyone knows about this, did they do studies to see the impact (no pun intended) of a helmet being worn while an airbag deploys? My main concern would be the brim and bourke shields.

[Arrowxt 8]

All good points about seat belt usage.  As I have posted in a previous thread on the topic, I once got scolded (!!?!?!?!) by an officer (!!!!) for WEARING my seatbelt while responding to an alarm.  He said I did not trust the driver by wearing it! But I digress, I always wear it, usually by flipping the shoulder straps of the SCBA over my shoulders before strapping myself in with the belt.  Or, I wait until we arrive on scene if we are already on the road.If you are not carfeul, you can accidentally tangle yourself in the waistbelt of the SCBA and the seatbelt.

On another safety note, I remember seeing in Fire Engineering a manufacturer is producing a cab with air bags(both front and rollover/side curtain).  I cannot remember the manufactuer or find the ad.  Either way, if anyone knows about this, did they do studies to see the impact (no pun intended) of a helmet being worn while an airbag deploys?  My main concern would be the brim and bourke shields.

←

Probably was a Pierce ad.

[Arrowxt 8]

I think the easy answer would be for a manufacturer to come out with a a lager buckle mechanism made for a gloved hand. But with that being said I would imagine both DOT and NFPA would be a large hurdle to overcome or it would have been done already.

Pierce has a nice Harness free SCBA seat that works nice. They also offer on there new Velocity a super huge seat belt(length wise) you can wrap it around yourself twice.

But a larger buckle would seem to the answer.

Arrow

[firecapt32 282]

What we need is some sort of a screen/cage type of harness in the apparatus. you can pulll it across you and lock it place, with some sort of slide lock. when you get to the location you hit a button and it releases back to the origional position.

[x152 179]

Thanks everyone for the great feedback.

635 - thanks for adding the LAFD seats. I have also seen a similar approach in my travels through Phoenix and think the idea has a lot of merit (but a tremendous task to adopt in the "East Coast" culture).

Pierce (and others now) offer air bags and rollover protection onto some of their lines, but given budgetary concerns of "admin types" and bid processes, I would still like to see a user-friendly "fire service" designed seat belt installed in every rig as a NFPA requirement.

Mstrang - scolded for wearing your belt??!!!! Where on earth.......what???

Wait.......let me guess?..... "huh...waddya say kid? get rid of that stupid belt......" warm?

Edited January 4, 2007 by x152

[Guest seanc]

i was just thinking that, for our department one of the first things we do when we get in the truck is most of the time is put on our scba packs, so why doesn't the manufactures incorporate them in with the seatbelts, example. have the scout packs locked in place until the parking brakes have been enabled. just a thought

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Great topic. The problem is many departments have no policies whatsoever. Even one as simple as this...wear your seat belts at all times. Then again policy or not, this is a matter of common sense. But sometimes those 2 words don't go together in the fire service as we have seen in some other safety discussions on this board. Wear your seatbelt. If you have to take it off to do something, put it back on immediately when you are done.

I believe the NFPA is working on requiring manufacturers to better equipment apparatus with functional seat belts. This probably should have been realized and pushed years ago, but at least from what it looks like it will be in the near future. They will have seatbelts that work for us. You're right, the seatbelts from GM and Ford aren't functional in a fire apparatus.

Newer safety technology for fire apparatus WWW.ROLLTEK.COM

It is side air bag systems for fire apparatus for rollover protection. Many of us teaching EVOC and such have been saying it would be long until they can retrofit fire apparatus with airbags. Frontal impact protection won't be long.

Firehouse.com has webcasts that you can take part in live, for no fee or you can watch them anytime from those that are archived.

Take a look at "Anatomy of a Rollover" that Mike Wilbur just did last month. It has some pics and stories behind rollovers and how they occur, how to prevent them. Some of it is eye opening and he also talks about the rolltek product which sponsored the webcast. Billy Goldfeder does a podcast usually monthly that are also informative pieces of information and you can listen to it on your PC or download it to your Ipod or MP3 player free. Education is out there...you have to want it and find it.

[Guest partyrock]

rolltek.com isn't working for me, but I found this link... http://www.lifeguardtechnologies.com/rollt...etruck_faqs.htm

I also like the smart dock. Anyone see before?