How do we reduce LODD?

[CTFF 65]

A recent topic here have hit a nerve with me and I wanted to know how others feel?

The topic dealt with BLS training for firefighters.

I understand that not every fire dept runs as EMT's or even first responders but we need to protect ourselves better then that. Every rig should carry a defib, supplemental O2 and all firefighters should be trained in the use of this equipment( maybe this needs to be part of FF1). Think of all the calls you are doing something fire dept related and there is no ems on scene. Early defib is major component in the ability to bring a heart attack patient back. This is a protection that we should be providing for ourselves and I don't think the fire service as a whole is doing enough about it. I understand that by carry the right equipment and having the rights trained people it may not save every firefighters who has a heart attack but we could reduce the number of deaths.

Should every rig carry defib, O2 and trained firefighters?

How do we make this happen?

Edited December 30, 2006 by CTFF

[Guest nickcabral]

I would think its a great idea that every machine has defib and basic ems equipment. After all, heart attacks is still the number one killer of FF's right? It doesnt have to be at the structure fire with EMS standing by that someone goes down. I wonder how many LODD's were heart failures at the everyday calls...AFA, Investigations, ETC. With rapid defib the chances of survival are greater. Besides saving our own, you never know when you may be out on the streets and come across a "man down" and have a chance to save a life. I am fortunate that every rig has that equipment and every FF has to be a trained EMT in my Department. CTFF asks a great question, "How do we make this happen?". This equipment costs money. I imagine the smaller budgeted departments struggle as it is. I am not sure just how we could make this happen. Good topic CTFF!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Great topic and that would be a start to possibly reduce LODD's. But its like putting a bandaid on an arterial bleed and hoping it will stop.

How do we reduce the LODD rate?

1. Get serious about the heart attack problem. Yes they will still occur, but maybe we need to look at the ages of some of the persons listed as LODD's whom have had heart attacks. Without having the time right now to look at the numbers it could drop the cardiac death rate I'm thinking 10 -25% or maybe even more, if we set a time which everyone career and volunteer can no longer function as anything active. Ie firefighter, fire police, etc.

2. Seat belts. We are still seeing firefighters die in accidents where they are unrestrained. Many are getting seriously injured. Make it so that if you are unrestrained you only get partial LODD benefits or none at all. Think that is too harsh...fine....then there should be a monetary fine against the responsible FD that they must pay and make it substantial.

[nycemt728 49]

Here in NYC, that is not an issue as each Engine Co. is a CFR Co. with all new FF's being trained and rated as CFRs. Each rig carries O2, defib, and basic medical supplies. I do support the idea of training FF's with a basic level of first aid, for several reasons including being first due and LODD prevention. As for cost, it might be more effective to train one or two people on each tour. At the very least, I do believe that a course in symptom recognition/MI prevention would benefit everyone. Too many times we read accounts that involve members suffering MIs long after an incident, in quarters or at home. Now granted, the symptoms may not be immediate, but as the old axiom says ffs, emts (insert profession) make the worst patients. Addtionally, CPR courses list, denial is one of the common symptoms of caridac trouble. If an inservice of this nature can be provided, this can add another layer of protection, early detection! I 100% agree w/alsfirefighter, our professions are stressfull and require a healthy body. It is important to maintain a realistic knowlege of ones own abilities in relation to age, strenth and health. We've all seen pictures of MOS who look like they could not fufill the job duties or should not be on an active scene. Stay safe.

Edited December 30, 2006 by nycemt728

[jloftus 28]

The one thing missing is proper manning, when you can act as a company there's better accountabilty, one's task is more focused , and less free-lansing, a term I dislike as its easy to blame a guy for drifting but any number of dept's force this on you because manning is below safe levels and your task can change quickly becasue of a lack of. CFR for all dept's should be a given, but to really reduce LODD look first at what you start with each day.

Happy New Year to all and be safe.

[Remember585 815]

Should every rig carry defib, O2 and trained firefighters?

YES! It is so simple to purchase these things, they're available almost anywhere. In our Engine Company we have been BEGGING for a defib for almost 5 years. We have EMTs, CFRs, CPR and First Aid personnel. We are the FAST RIG! We are told that it is impossible by our Chief because of paperwork and issues with DOH. I researched this and received info from the DOH AND WREMAC - both saying it is a simple thing to achieve. Maybe Santa (not riding on the hosebed) will bring us one next year.

How do we make this happen?

Um, see above. Also, we can start by grabbing people who say things like "we're going overboard with safety" and showing them out the door. Next, get someone to look into some of this seemingly never-ending grant money and outfit as many rigs as you can with DEFIBS!

ALS once again has made good points. We need to take our personal health more seriously. Stop adding those fat-boy rings ro bunker pants, take anyone wearing a shirt that doubles as a car cover and put them on the support / non-interior list and educate people on how dangerous our job (paid or not) is BEFORE we even pack up and go to work. Departments should spend less money on parades and candy canes and put it into fitness programs or gym memberships for the troops!

[ajsbear 11]

We need to slow down and take stock.

First when driving an apparatus we need to slow down a little and be more carefull. Remember there are many idiots our there who will cut off a rig rather than get behind it so don't just think because we drive big red fire trucks we have the right of way.

Second is seat belts. Every butt in a seat with a belt on. No belts in the hose bed so sorry Santa. The only time some one is in the bed when the rig is in motion is when packing LDH and the truck is moving at less than 1 MPH. Yes there is still a risk of getting hurt.

Third is physicals. Once a year you should be be getting one anyway.

Fourth is get back in shape for those who are out and think they are supermen. Those who consider 3 Big Macs a mid afternoon snack should not be entering a fire building.

Fifth is trainning, I'm gonning to start sounding like ALS soon. Train, train and then retrain until it becomes second nature.

[HFD750 6]

We need to slow down and take stock.

First when driving an apparatus we need to slow down a little and be more carefull. Remember there are many idiots our there who will cut off a rig rather than get behind it so don't just think because we drive big red fire trucks we have the right of way.

Second is seat belts. Every butt in a seat with a belt on. No belts in the hose bed so sorry Santa. The only time some one is in the bed when the rig is in motion is when packing LDH and the truck is moving at less than 1 MPH. Yes there is still a risk of getting hurt.

Third is physicals. Once a year you should be be getting one anyway.

Fourth is get back in shape for those who are out and think they are supermen. Those who consider 3 Big Macs a mid afternoon snack should not be entering a fire building.

Fifth is trainning, I'm gonning to start sounding like ALS soon. Train, train and then retrain until it becomes second nature.

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I think you pretty much sumed it up... I'm a firm believer in fitness we have a gym in our house and I encourage everyone to use it. If I ate 3 big mac's I wouldn't even be able to move.

[firecapt32 282]

Please not only slow the apparatus down but your own personal cars as well.

Blue lights do not give you the right to follow the fire apparatus down a one way street the wrong way, it dosent give you the right to go through a intersection against the traffic lights.

Deaths form responding/returning are about 25 % that guys is 25 lives saved.

sounds so simple

[Guest partyrock]

How about a treadmill? Now that most depts are stepping up and requiring annual or semi-annual physicals, what about regular physical fitness tests. Something simple like a weight vest and a treadmill. Our version of a stress test.