LIRR TO GCT & Metro-North To Penn!

[x635 4,066]

VERY exciting news, and is going to make riding Metro-North even easier for those who want to go down to the city, or even now Long Island!

Feds commit $2.6B for new station under Grand Central Terminal

By CAREN HALBFINGER

THE JOURNAL NEWS

East Side Access

New LIRR station under Grand Central Terminal

Cost: $6.3 billion

Serves: 60,000 current riders, 160,000 projected

Opens: 2013

Details: 8 tracks, 4 platforms, mezzanine, elevators, escalators and stairs

Capacity: 24 trains per hour during rush hour

- 22-foot-wide tunnel, 150 feet below street level

(Original publication: December 19, 2006)

NEW YORK - The Federal Transit Administration yesterday pledged $2.6 billion to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, enabling it to build a new railroad station under Grand Central Terminal to serve Long Island Rail Road riders.

The $6.3 billion East Side Access will allow 60,000 current Long Island and Queens residents to cut their commutes by 40 minutes daily by bringing their Long Island Rail Road trains directly to a new station 150 feet below Grand Central Terminal. These riders will avoid a two-train transfer from Penn Station to the East Side via the Broadway subway line and the shuttle. The service is projected to attract 100,000 more riders, many of whom are expected to leave their cars at home once East Side Access opens in 2013.

U.S. Transportation Secretary Mary Peters, making her first appearance in New York to deliver mass transit funds, said the federal contribution was the agency's largest ever to a single project. It was pledged in a document-signing ceremony and news conference in the Grand Concourse at Grand Central, and will be delivered between now and 2016. Former Sen. Alfonse D'Amato, a Long Islander and one of the project's earliest champions, was on hand, as was Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, and other members of the New York congressional delegation who have promoted the project and fought for federal funding for it.

"This system is bursting at the seams because more people are using mass transit than ever before,'' Mayor Michael Bloomberg said. "That comes about because it's better mass transit than we have ever had.''

MTA officials expect the new station to have little impact on Metro-North Railroad riders - either good or bad. Most LIRR riders who travel to the East Side are expected to walk to work once they arrive at Grand Central, rather than crowding onto the Lexington Avenue line with East Side residents and Metro-North riders, said William Wheeler, director of special project development and planning.

Peters also announced that the federal Department of Transportation would allow the MTA to commit up to $693 million in funds to begin construction of the Second Avenue Subway Line in 2007, and that the federal share of such costs would be reimbursed with FTA transit funds, subject to appropriations and final approvals.

"Our commitment to New York is broad in its scope and grand in its ambition," she said.

Preparations for East Side Access have already begun at Grand Central. Metro-North's Madison Avenue railroad yard was cleared out to make room for the new passenger concourse, and its railroad maintenance and cleaning operations were moved to Highbridge Yard in the Bronx.

When East Side Access opens, Long Island Rail Road riders will exit Grand Central via special high-speed escalators onto 45th Street, 47th Street, 48th Street or 49th Street. Eventually, by freeing up space at Pennsylvania Station, East Side Access is expected to clear the way for a reciprocal arrangement, whereby some Metro-North trains would go directly to Penn Station. Westchester and Putnam residents who summer in the Hamptons then could take a train from their home stations and easily connect to the train to the Hamptons.

But West Side Access, as the proposal for bringing Metro-North trains to Penn Station is called, is still in the planning stages, even though most of the infrastructure exists and it would be much less costly, Wheeler said.

Progress is already under way on East Side Access. Tunneling under the East River began in 1969 and was finished in the mid-1970s. Tunneling is now under way in Queens, and the MTA plans to begin boring through 25,000 feet of rock in Manhattan, starting at 63rd Street and Second Avenue next summer. The MTA will dig 150 feet below street level, boring under Park Avenue to 38th Street, beneath Metro-North's four-track right of way. The underground East Side Access station will have eight tracks. Four wide platforms will be built, with a mezzanine and concourses, below the existing lower level at Grand Central.

"If New York doesn't grow, it dies,'' Schumer said. "People are flocking from all over the world to New York, and we need more mass transit.''

Edited December 20, 2006 by x635

[Oswegowind 17]

Too bad it doesn't start tomorrow...going to the Duke v. Gonzaga game at the garden...too expensive to jump on amtrak to penn ($30+)...would love to take an mnrr train right into the basement at penn...Much quicker and a whole lot more convenient!!!!!!!Since the tracks are already there and easy to just throw a switch!!!

[Guest]

There's going to be trains from Westchester to Penn?!?! NICE

[10-Buff-4 0]

I believe it when I see it, but, I hope this one works out! It would certainly let me see my friends on Long Island very easily (no more switching at Woodside, although, I've never actually done that. Ah well.)

Hopefully that'll work out.

-Joe DA BUFF

[grumpyff 1,159]

The project is mostly for LIRR into Grand Central, to relieve congestion in Penn Station and on the number 7 subway line. It was found that a lot of LIRR commuters work on the East side of Manhattan. I highly doubt we will ever see Metro North in Penn Station, as there is almost no room left on the platforms between LIRR, NJ transit and Amtrak.

For those that are interested in in the East Side Access plan, there is a large display in Grand Central near the Station Master's office.

[Guest]

There will be no access to Penn Station from Westchester County. The current project makes use of an existing East River tunnel and connects the Sunnysides Yards in LI City with Grand Central Terminal.

Penn is too crowded and MNRR and LIRR trains do not run on compatable systems. The LIRR will arrive at GCT on a completely different concourse that will be several stories below the currant lower level of Grand Central.

You'll still have to take two subways to get to the Garden from Westchester

[dadbo46 50]

The + 10 year long range plan is to extend "some" MNRR trains to Penn Station, but, no funding has been identified for it.

Note that "William Wheeler, director of special project development and planning." is from Yonkers and the project manager for the project is from Pleasantville !

[ajsbear 11]

Amtrak which runs on the MNRR lines goes into Penn. Looks to me with LIRR trains ging to GCT it'll open some track soace in Penn. Shouldn't be too hard for MNRR to run a few trains down the west side tracks in Manhattan into Penn and back.

[Guest]

If my recollection serves me right (its been a while since ive ridden the rails) only the hudson line would be able to take advantage of the same west side lines that Amtrak uses. The split is just north of spuyten duyvil and the merge is not till several stops later (right before you cross over the harlem river). It would be quite tricky (without digging a lot of tunnels) to get a harlem or new haven line train to penn. Also is there a third rail on the west side? Im sure some one who reads this works for Metro North.

[Guest]

Amtrak which runs on the MNRR lines goes into Penn. Looks to me with LIRR trains ging to GCT it'll open some track soace in Penn. Shouldn't be too hard for MNRR to run a few trains down the west side tracks in Manhattan into Penn and back.

←

The LIRR service to Grand Central will not open any slots at Penn Station. It will relieve some of the burden on Hunterspoint Avenue and change overs at Jamaica. Everything else is said to be additional service, not replacement for any service to Penn.

MNRR cannot enter Penn Station under electric power. Even under diesel power there would be a problem. Perhaps not with clearance, but with the 3rd rail. Most of the rolling stock on Metro North is electic and the diesels cannot run under diesel power underground (they only use dual mode diesels that can run off the 3rd rail in the park ave tunnel, the P32ac-dm or "Genesis").

MNRR uses a bottom contact 3rd rail and the LIRR a top contact 3rd rail. This makes the two systems uncompatable without extensive equiptment modifications.

I could see MNRR to Penn being an option in the long run, but it would require a similar project to the East Side Access. They would have to have new tracks dedicated for Metro North use. They'd also have to tunnel and access way to Penn from Grand Central. South bound MNRR trains on the Harlem and New Haven divisions could not get down the west side, not to mention, those rails belong to Amtrak.

Edited December 21, 2006 by lfdR1

[BmSmall92 1]

For the Harlem line to go to Penn would be an extraordinary feat. For the Hudson and New Haven lines not so. The Hudson line can shoot right down through Empire Connection on the West Side. Metro-North and Amtrak run the same engines, but I do not know if the third rail shoes on the MNRR's p32s are compatabile with Amtrak's third rail. The New Have line trains can use the Hellgate line to go to Penn station. But the current problem with that is the M2,M4, and M6 cannot hadle 25,000 volts. When the M8's come out they will be able to handle this power.

[Guest]

For the Harlem line to go to Penn would be an extraordinary feat.  For the Hudson and New Haven lines not so.  The Hudson line can shoot right down through Empire Connection on the West Side.  Metro-North and Amtrak run the same engines, but I do not know if the third rail shoes on the MNRR's p32s are compatabile with Amtrak's third rail.  The New Have line trains can use the Hellgate line to go to Penn station.  But the current problem with that is the M2,M4, and M6 cannot hadle 25,000 volts.  When the M8's come out they will be able to handle this power.

←

The Amtrak P32acdm's are essentially the same as the MNRR, but the third rail shoe is fit for a top running 3rd rail. Amtrak had fit some of their older FL-9s with a 3rd rail shoe that was air and spring loaded so that it could change position and run on MNRR's under-running 3rd rail, but that system was reportedly poor and has not been tried since.

Yes, the M-8's will be able to run into Penn via the empire, but as of now, they have not ordered equiptment to handle any extra duty (only replacements) and this still doesn't adress the issue of there being no open slots at Penn. Who know's maybe they'll free some up.

[Guest]

Sorry, double.

Edited December 21, 2006 by lfdR1

[Oswegowind 17]

And how hard would it be to retrofit a current mnrr train to allow for such access...since they spend so much money uselessly anyway!

Plus if enough riders on the Hudson Line make noise I am sure we can get them to listen...They are #1 in customer satisfaction as they advertise in their latest issue of the commuter newspaper they print.

[Oswegowind 17]

and I think LFD has to read the article...something about paving the way for a reciprocal agreement...Wouldn't that mean mnrr trains to Penn?

[IzzyEng4 427]

They already are talking about Extending the Bridgeport - Waterbury line, a line from New Haven to Hartford to Springfield and then another possibly from New London to Willimantic to Wooster for Metro-North with the New Haven Hartford line the more of the reality happening.

I wounder if they will ever connect New Haven and Bridgeport to Long Island???? Hmmmm Maybe a bridge connecting the two???? Wait sorry the egg nog is kicking in!

[Guest]

Oswego, thank you for directing my attention towards the article.

How hard would it be? VERY!

It would cost a tremendous amount of money to replace the 3rd rail system on all of the MNRR M-3s and M-7s. Thats several HUNDRED railcars with 4 3rd rail shoes a piece. Trust me, it's some big math. ALSO they do not share the same in cab signing system. This is very complicated.

I'm not sure why you say that the Railroad spends money in a wasteful fashion. What projects would you say are particularly wasteful. Look, it's still a beurocratic gov't agency, but as those to, I think Metro-North is pretty good.

LASTLY, Ms. Halbfinger of the Jounal News is notorious in the railroad and railfan community for delivering retraction worthy news. It's not often that the media gets tech issues correct when it comes to the railroad, same with reporting about fire dept's.

It's not TOTALLY immposible, but you gotta look at the big picture here. The costs associated would be enormous and many are not sure of the demand.

Edited December 21, 2006 by lfdR1

[Dr. Zuki 1]

HARLEM LINE TO PENN STATION: But would it work to have the Harlem line trains cut across to the Hudson line west side tracks at the Mott Haven junction area ( just above Melrose Station) and reach Penn station via the Spuyden Duyvel area tracks ?

And I thought that's how they plan to have the Harlem line reach the new Yankee Stadium station which will be located on the Hudson line tracks.

And here's a good question: How come no train lines wer never extended to Wall Street which existed when Grand Central was constructed?

Email all corrections to that Journal News writer if she gets her stuff wrong...