Unity In Accountabilty

[x635 4,066]

This was a subject thought of by Barry Zezze several years ago in the pre-EMTBravo days when he was appointed the head of the Fire Advisory Board by then- DES Commisioner Patrick Kelly. He tried to push it, but it never went anywhere.

I'd like to re-hash the subject on here.

In Westchester, we can barely standardize anything between departments. Each community can be vastly different, one glaring example is our radio and dispatching systems. Even with this new county radio system, things will get even more segrated.

Anyways, one thing we all commonly do is provide mutual aid to other departments. Yet, in the majority of departments, our accountabilty systems are all different. When you routinely have 4 to 5 departments operating at a large fire, with all different accountabilty systems, how is a unified command supposed to track this? 5 different accountabilty officers?

Personally, I feel that the county should come up with a single accountabilty solution, that is coordinated by the DES. I feel they should seek out grants for an interactive accountability system that can electronically keep track of firefighters and apparatus by a radio frequency tag. For example, a firefighter comes onto the scene, the IC or Safety chiefs laptop picks up that he is there. There is even ways to track via RF tag where on the scene the firefighter is, how long they have been there, and even what apparatus is there. There's even a system that intergrates with Scott Packs. The idea...plenty of technolgy options that makes keeping track of firefighters easier then ever before.

But, simply, and in the meantime, the county could come up with a universal accountabilty protocol and tag system that EVERYONE can agree on and implement.

Edited December 20, 2006 by x635

[Guest nickcabral]

This sounds like a great idea, but the questions I have are:

1. Cost. It sounds like a very expensive option to outfit all your county departments. Can this be afforded? And how much grief will the budgeting process bring?

2. Secondary incidents. The idea of the transmitters is great...it means you dont have to "tag in" or forget to for that matter, its done automaticlly when you come into range of the reciever. But what happens when another incident occurs within short distance to the original? Is there a way to separate the two, or will the first Chiefs laptop be registering the transmitters of the second incident as well?

3. SCBA mounted options. What about incidents where SCBA is not worn by everyone. Will those firefighters still be tracked?

All in all, unified accountability sounds like a great idea with the use of electronic tracking. Do you know of any specific websites where I could learn more about these systems?

[Guest]

Great topic. However, i would first like to see an integrated 911 center on the county level. Its really quite ridiculous (in my personal opinion) that in 2006 in order to get help in Westchester County you have to call 911, get the state police or local, request help, if they aren't locally dispatched the police have to call 60 control who has to dispatch the FD or EMS.

[JohnnyOV 2]

Do you know of any specific websites where I could learn more about these systems?

←

http://www.graceindustries.com/FireSafety/...uateSystem.html

This is the T Pass 3 system...its used for evac purposes, but I think with more integration, FF names, departments / company, certifications, blood type ect ect could be placed into each unit, if every FF recived their own personal one.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I believe this idea has been discussed, but again it comes down to the departmental level and wanted something positive to come out of it. There is still too many, that's nice but we do it this way type mentalities and those whom will just be resistant because they can and want to be resistant. For numerous reasons.

Credentialling is very important and I think that could come out of it also. While I like the new technology in regards to accountability, I think we also have to crawl before we walk and come out with a basic county wide accountability system much like a passport system. It takes time to get used to and you have to want it to work, but it does work. The basic 2 tag systems...all that does is tell you who is on scene and takes too much time to go through when something occurs as what happened in Lake Worth, TX church fire where it took I believe over 30 mins for a PAR to occur. At least with a passport system if it is kept up to date and the personnel use their 3 rd tag to "tag in" whereever they are assigned to, you have an idea of who is where and it allows division/sector/group supervisors and leaders to keep up on who is with them and where.

[tracdoc 1]

Related to this subject, in response to the Worcester fire in which firefighters became lost, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, is developing this system:

http://www.wpi.edu/News/Transformations/20...r/safeexit.html

[firecapt32 282]

I have been holding off on this one for a while but here it is. the County isnt the responsible agency. The depatment that has the fire is. question might be how does a IC who calls in mutual aid to assist his department know what he is getting?? is every mamber of a mutal aid company certified for interior work. There are some prett smart Chiefs out there lets here what you have to say.

[helicopper 1,050]

I have been holding off on this one for a while but here it is. the County isnt the responsible agency. The depatment that has the fire is. question might  be how does a IC who calls in mutual aid to assist his department know what he is getting?? is every mamber of a mutal aid company certified for interior work.  There are some prett smart Chiefs out there  lets here what you have to say.

←

True, the County isn't the responsible agency but they're the best suited to administer a countywide program. As for the cost of an electronic radio-tag system, with all the grants funds that are out there, the County could probably rope some into a program such as this.

Interesting idea - it will be great to see something positive like this implemented!

[BFD1054 1,552]

Great topic Seth! Its nice to see alot of great ideas that have come from this!

In my department, we use the simple tag method. Each active member is issued 2 tags. One tag stays on the member at all times, the other goes to the Safety/Accountability officer. Blue tags are non-interior and red is for interior. It works great within our department.

But as the Captain stated, what about mutual-aid? Does the IC know what A, B & C fire departments are using for their accountability? Thats why i firmly believe that there must be a standard set throughout the County. Its great that the county is finally starting to push NIMS compliancy, so why can't we push for accountability standards? Its for our own good and safety!

When i took intro to fire officer a few years ago, we discussed the whole accountability topic from top to bottom. It was interesting, not to mention somewhat alarming to see how many different systems are used throughout the county. It also scared the hell out of me to hear 2 firefighters from the same dept. (quite a large one at that) tell the class that they have NO form of accountabilty what-so-ever!

Bottom line is that we need to implement a standard, unified accountability system for the entire county!

Just my thoughts, stay safe all!

Edited December 24, 2006 by BFD1054

[firecapt32 282]

BFD was that my intro class?? I remember that well. i asked the same question then as we are asking now.

We may have one County but we are sprerated into 60 some odd departments/ city/villages/fire districts. getting them on the same page wolld really be a Christmas miracle.