Time Or Objective Based Training?

[ex-commish 490]

Do you guys favor time based training or training based on skills performance. With time being tight as it is is it better to test our members annually or semi-annually on all skills or is the traditional way of monthly drills still the way to go.

[firecapt32 282]

Good question Andy--I think skills is the way to go--keeping good record of what a firefighter has done and what they should be doing next. Like Santa make a list of things that shoud be accompolished and see whos doing it. make your list and check it twice. record keeping is now the acronym for CYA --your only as good as your record keeping.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Andy...excellent topic and one that I've been part of discussions in 3 departments in the past 5 years or so.

I am very pro skill based training requirements. The difficulties faced by soceity today when part of any volunteer service is becoming more difficult to operate in the same manner as even a year ago, lone less 10, 20 and even 30 years ago. The fire service is entirely to slow in adapting to these changes. Here are a few points as to why I am for skill requirements and deliverence vs. time:

1. Skill needs are easily identifiable and achievable. How is it to be part of certain specialized areas of the fire/hazmat/tech rescue fields you need to have specific training requirements, but for what we do the majority of the time we hold training drills most often on a monthly basis. Firefighters need to be, for a lack of a better term, re-introduced to the basics that they need to operate safely and efficiently every approx. 6 months before muscle memory and cognitive memory start to decrease. How can the fire service possibly do this on a monthly drill basis? Do you hope that the ones that don't attend a specific drill are the ones that you won't have to ask to perform that function? Or hope they remember enough to do it correctly, not just at a risk of injury to themselves but other crews operating?

2. Record keeping, clearly allows easier and less time consuming record keeping that can be kept up to date so members can see what they have accomplished and what they need to become compliant.

The day and age of allowing person to slide along just by time without attending training needs to come to an end. We all know what I'm talking about and we all know members who you only see at fires and serious MVA's. This is a lot more then just putting wet stuff on the red stuff.

[ajsbear 11]

T add to your list REFREASHER courses. As you said skills get old and we all tend to get CRS. If we had to refreash our skills every few years, a little more than local drills it would help. Think of who took FF1 when we first switched over or back to Basic, intermediate, advanced FF. You need to keep sharp. Train, retrain and start over. Learn it enough times and you'll remember it like it was natural.

[x635 4,066]

I believe a firefighter should have to get certified in his skills, and every couple of years have to receritfy in that procdure or get remedial training.

Just like EMS has to.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Seth I think we even talked about this. I always liked the idea of requiring CFE's (Continuing Fire Education) much like CME's for EMS.

There were many states that required that you either had to go up to the next level or recertify at the same level every 5 years. Virginia at one time required this but I am not sure if that is still the case.

AJS...I agree. There are many functions that need to be reaffirmed. We've all seen it not just in students that come back for other courses that should be slightly advanced or add on to basic skills they've lost, but even in ourselves. Things like pump operations, survival skills and one of the biggest....search need to be constantly honed and updated with new information and tactics and such.

[ajsbear 11]

T

Yes there are even refresher courses in the state book but nobody gives them. Once a FF takes a course, gets that certificate thats it. Its from last years book but 80 thru 84 are refresher classes.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

You know what I forgot to mention that. I've actually had that discussion with several local chiefs and I just don't think they totally understood that its delivered by SFI's at no charge to them through state hours.

Not to mention other organizations and consulting firms, lol, that can at a nominal fee provide excellent training opportunities to departments. What a shameful plug.

[firecapt32 282]

What a great idea CFE's . Isnt that what we are doing in the County now with the latest training reviews?? Those classes seem to be doing well and are full .

So the education is out there for the fire departments, but alas-you can lead the horse to water but you cant make it drink.

We need to find a way .It amazies me that emts' have to recert every few years mostly to keep up with the new tech stuff in the field, but we in the fire service just have to take basic stuff and its good for life... just dosent seem right.

[AFS1970 504]

I think CFE's are a great idea. Many departmetns do this but don't call it that. Any regular drill schedule with a good variety of topics are essentially CFE's. The only thing missing from most programs is a set of attendance requirements.

Somewhat related to that is the idea of CFE articles. Many EMS related magazines offer CME articles that you can read, take a quiz and send it in to be graded and receive CME credit. Now there are more fire service magazines out there than EMS magazines, so this should be a simple thing to take care of. IT could even be run internally by a department, that subscribes to multiple magazines. The only problem I see with this, is again an enforcement problem of people using all book work and few practical classes to meet their requirements.

With a little bit of agressive management, this program could be a benefit to the fire service.