Painting Hydrant Location In The Street

[x635 4,066]

[attachmentid=1689]

Today, I came across this street marking indicating this hydrants location. All hydrants in this municipality were marked this way.

Now this isn't the first time I've seen this. This particular shot was in Ridgefield Park, NJ. I've just never seen this around here.

Although the above hydrant's location seems quite obvious, there are times when we don't know the hydrants location....such as when it's hiding behind bushes, down a embankment, behind a car, etc etc......now, of course we should know alll the hydrants in our first due, and in our map books, but there are times when something simple like this would make our lives a lot easier...such as when coming in mutual aid, when the hydrants buried in snow, etc.

I think it's a good idea. But the NIMBY's would probaly feel it's an eyesore.

[res6cue 67]

We used to do this very same thing about 10 or so years ago. We'd get buckets of paint and glass beads from the highway dept, make a stencil out of plexiglass and head out around 9 pm with one of the guy's open landscape trailer. Two guys drop the stencil, one guy paints, one guy sprinkles glass beads, on to the next hydrant. Was a lot of fun.

Unfortunately, we found out later that winter that it really doesn't do much good when there's snow and ice covering the road. Kinda defeats the purpose entirely. We decided to go with hydrant markers instead the following year.

[x242Steve 1]

IMO, these are less of an eye-sore than the "flags" that some town attach to hydrants (which inevitably get snapped off)...

...and to the NIMBY's I say: TB!IOPP (Too Bad! It's on Public Property)

[BFD1054 1,552]

I'm 50/50 on these type of markings. We have them in Buchanan and they are re-painted every couple of years if i am not mistaken.

They can be good at times, but as res6cue stated, how bout in the winter with all the snow and ice?

I'd prefer the flag type markings that stick up off the top of the hydrant a couple of feet. This way, the snow won't make a difference and the flags would be easier to see even if there were other things in the way (i.e. bushes).

just my 2 cents!

Edited December 6, 2006 by BFD1054

[JM15 386]

I think that I have seen this is in part of Mohegan Lake. Sounds like a good idea but as Res6cue said the winter would put a damper on this plan

[Remember585 815]

Those flags get in the way - consequently we have ripped them off of several hydrants over time. Some of them rusted so bad around the hydrant threads they had to be forced off.

The best thing I like is painting the tops of the hydrants with white scotchlite paint.

Actually....the BEST thing is knowing your district and where the plugs are. Our rigs keep books in them with each street having a page. The page looks kind of like this:

IRVING AVENUE

Cross Streets: Cleveland Drive and Radnor Avenue

Hydrants: C/O Cleveland, #15, C/O Radnor, #71

Then directions to the street from each Station are listed. Great book. (Atta boy Pop!)

[JohnnyOV 2]

Down here in FL, all hydrants are marked by a blue reflective bump in the middle of the right lane, or on the shoulder on the highways, much like the rumble bumps on the yellow center lines. These can be seen from way down the road, as well as felt, just in case you missed the odd blue reflection from the middle of the road. It works really well down here, but only because we dont have snow.

I think a combination of that, along with hydrant flags during the winter time, could make for an efficent way to find a water source up in the good old north east.

Edited December 6, 2006 by EMSJunkie712

[x635 4,066]

Actually....the BEST thing is knowing your district and where the plugs are. 

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I agree strongly with that, as we are required to know every hydrant and even the approx flow in our district.

However, sometimes when hydrants are buried in a gi-normous snow pile, and the street is cleaned, it's hard to find the hydrant. Also, sometimes you go into mutual aid districts, and finding a hydrant can be tough...especially when you don't have an updated guide by no fault of your own.

The flags do tend to get ripped off, and the scotchlite on the hydrant tops is useless to me if the hydrant is down a hill, behind a dense shrub, etc.

I personally feel the hydrant marker sticks and appropriate signage is the best way to locate hydrants, coupled with knowledge and up-to-date references (another reason for a countywide MDT system). Maybe even hydrants with GPS, so you can see exactly where the hydrants are in relation to your apparatus.

[firecapt32 282]

Im sure Paul feiner would just love that idea !!!! gps for the hydrants hmmm not a bad idea.

[ja3kfd 34]

We have in the Town Of Bedford flags on spring loaded mounts on top of Hydrant, as well as some of them are marked with posts, the spring loaded ones do not get in the way of hitting the hydrant and when you have to operate you can stand on flag or use other hand to hold it out of the way, all the hydranys are painted a reflective yellow, and the caps are color coded for gpm as well the dead ends are painted silver on top. We have not painted on the streets, the flags seem to work well for us. When we do get large amounts of snow the hydrants get dug out, very quickly.

Edited December 6, 2006 by ja3kfd

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

I agree strongly with that, as we are required to know every hydrant and even the approx flow in our district.

However, sometimes when hydrants are buried in a gi-normous snow pile, and the street is cleaned, it's hard to find the hydrant. Also, sometimes you go into mutual aid districts, and finding a hydrant can be tough...especially when you don't have an updated guide by no fault of your own.

The flags do tend to get ripped off, and the scotchlite on the hydrant tops is useless to me if the hydrant is down a hill, behind a dense shrub, etc.

I personally feel the hydrant marker sticks and appropriate signage is the best way to locate hydrants, coupled with knowledge and up-to-date references (another reason for a countywide MDT system). Maybe even hydrants with GPS, so you can see exactly where the hydrants are in relation to your apparatus.

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Its a good idea to have a GPS on a hydrant but what about the cost of out fitting every hydrant in your district with the unit and then the rigs with a reciever to the hydrants...would be just too expensive

What heppens if they GPS breaks then you need to spend the high amount of money to get it fixed

Also, what happens when you go out of district....you still wont have a clue where the hydrants are unless you can see them and if crews come in district they wont have a clue where the hydrant is unless they can see it.

There has to bve a good, clear and cost effective way to mark a hydrant.......we just need to think of it

Edited December 6, 2006 by bvfdjc316

[Guest]

GPS transmitters and receivers are pretty cheap, small, and rugged today. All i really think it would take is a program that acted as a GPS map (to get you to the run) and identified hydrants closest to you. Even then, its not all that hard. If you have a Magellan GPS receiver you can customize your points of interest (POIs) and tell the thing to look for dunken' donuts or in and out burgers, or whatever. You could probably even tell it to find hydrants as long as you got the exact GPS location of the hydrant, you would then just have to punch it into the unit and name them appropriately.

Edited December 6, 2006 by 66Alpha1

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

they are not so cheap....they are $300 for a non-weather-proof transmiter and twice that for a weather-proof one

now multiply that by however many hydrants you have and that is the amount you need....there is no way it is economically worth it for other departments to know where the hydrant is

As for finding it.......300 for a non-total-essentail piece of equipment is not that great when the flag could be less then $50

Edited December 7, 2006 by bvfdjc316

[ja3kfd 34]

In some fire Districts around Westchester they were done, all hydrants were found with GPS transmitter and Marked, then on the runs you could be told the marks and plug them in to your GPS and it can take you there Espically great for Mutual Aid, just need everyone to do this and we could start using it. As well GPS units are not that expensive so it could be done. Could even be done as a Eagle Scout project for your town and Given to Dept. for County to log in.

[x635 4,066]

they are not so cheap....they are $300 for a non-weather-proof transmiter and twice that for a weather-proof one

now multiply that by however many hydrants you have and that is the amount you need....there is no way it is economically worth it

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You are incoreect. If you have a MDT with GPS mapping software in your rig, it costs NOTHING!

Just input the latitude and longitdue or other GPS marker for the hydrant into the mapping system, and you have the hydrant via GPS.

The hyrant does not need ANY GPS equipment. The cost for each individual hydrant is $0!!!

[Guest]

I'm going to see how it works on Friday when i'm down at work. I'll see if i cant find some obscure hydrants, plug em into the Roadmate 760 drive to the other side of town and travel the route it gives me. Just on the topic of price - i paid about 300 for my RoadMate 760 (gotta love ebay), and that has been some of the best 300 i've spent so far. Between finding gas stations, rest stops and the location of some pretty out of the way calls at work it surely has paid for itself

Edited December 7, 2006 by 66Alpha1

[sr71 1]

in darien we paint the telephone poles around the hydrants in a T the I part of the T faces the Hydrant and we paint in dirrfent colors which tell us the gpm of the hydrant. and we also have the flag markers where the hydrant isnt in plain view.

[Scottyk107 9]

like ems junkie said here in fla there are blue reflectors in the road to tell you where they are but that would work up north when they drop plows they would be ripped off. the flags would work on hydrants behind bushes and such and would be nice if they came off with the hyrdant cap or something of the sort

[Remember585 815]

Some townships in Westchester took the time to get the global positions of the hydrants in their districts. On the CAD map at 60 Control we have images of where these hydrants are. It's a real nice resource that some other towns should really take advantage of.

Speaking of the 60 Control CAD, some departments have hydrant info tied into their CIDS cards. A location of interest will come up with building info, occupany data and nearest hydrant locations.

As for the comment about going Mutual Aid - that really isn't a major concern of mine, because the "host" department should be telling their incoming Mutual Aid what they want and where they want them.

[res6cue 67]

As for the comment about going Mutual Aid - that really isn't a major concern of mine, because the "host" department should be telling their incoming Mutual Aid what they want and where they want them.

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Ever heard of covering another dept's area?

I'm not opposed to painting the street, believe me. As I said, we used to do it and it worked out nicely for hard to find hydrants when the street was clean. Sometimes even the flag can't be seen if the hydrant is obstructed from view by a telephone pole, bush, tree, etc. It's just that we have hundreds of hydrants in our area of 36 sq mi, so it's no small task to maintain the markings and flags, as one can imagine. In the end, the flags were a ton easier to install and check on, so the paint markings went by the wayside.

Incidentally, we've had our hydrant locations in our CAD database for years now. Every run sheet gives the cross streets and hydrants based on the specific incident address, not just generic to the entire street or development. As a backup, the same info is also in the street directories we keep in the rigs.

Sample hardcopy page:

BRICK CHURCH RD

100-RIGHT (NORTH) ON 45, LEFT (WEST) ON WILLIAMS AVE, RIGHT (NORTH) ON HEMPSTEAD RD, LEFT (WEST) ON BRICK CHURCH RD

101-RIGHT (SOUTH) ON TMI, LEFT (EAST) ON 202, RIGHT (SOUTH) ON 45, RIGHT (WEST) ON NEW HEMPSTEAD/UNION RD, RIGHT OR LEFT (WEST OR EAST) ON BRICK CHURCH RD

102-RIGHT (SOUTH) ON 306, LEFT (EAST) ON BRICK CHURCH RD

LOCATION-OFF 306, E SIDE, BETWEEN E FESSLER DR & MARINER WAY

ADDRESSES-RUN EAST TO WEST

HYDRANTS-40, 80, 180, 224    MUTUAL AID-17

Sample CAD screen:

[Remember585 815]

Ever heard of covering another dept's area? 

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And now, the EDITED VERSION

Yes, I have.

My point is that my concerns are MY OWN AREA. Knowing a neighboring department's area is SECONDARY to me and my concerns. When it comes to covering another's area, it doesn't hurt to know those things. But when you are coming in to a scene you wouldn't ASSUME which hydrant you are taking, but you would take the one asked of you by the IC.

I can also tell you that the hydrants in the district south of us are roughly every 500 feet.

I can tell you it's almost the same in the district to the north of us.

And, I can also tell you that the one to the east of us has no hydrants in the areas that border us, hence the reason we go there with the TANKER.

In case you're wondering too, the Hudson River is to our west, so that water supply problem is easily solved.

BETTER?!

Edited December 7, 2006 by Remember585

[EMTbravo 312]

Yes, oh masterful moderator, I have.

Anyone want to take bets how long until this post gets removed / edited?!

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Since I didn't want to be accused of editing your post- removing your commentsso I could address your concern via PM and not get this topic off course, I guess I will respond here.

Yes, res6cue can be a little blunt at times, but that's just his nature...just like some other members, and he shouldn't be called out like that because of it.

Moderators (now for the time being called Lead Members) may pariticpate in discussions, and interact just like a regular member....in fact, they are just called Lead Members now. There purpose is to encourage discussion, watch out for the negativity/bashing/ranting, monitor Verified Members Profiles, and help forum members use the different features of this forum. MODERATORS, or Lead Members, are NORMAL members of this forum, with added responsbilities)

Sometimes, it's hard to tell a persons tone over the keyboard. A person may just be normally blunt, or have a diffferent sense of humor then yours, but theres no reason why we can't discuss something respectfully, even if it gets a bit heated. There's no reason to flame one another, and it disgusts me when people do.

If you have an isssue with a moderator, the appropriate way to handle it is to contact me. Not to make a snide, ignorant comment. My email is EMTBravo@EMTBravo.com, and I'd be happy to hear your concerns.

LET ME REPEAT IT AGAIN- SINCE SOME PEOPLE ARE STILL NOT GETTING THIS MESSAGE- IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE WITH A MODERATOR OR MODERATION OF THIS FORUM.....CONTACT ME, USING EMAIL OR PM, AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS AND GIVE YOU THE CORRECT INFORMATION.

Until then, I would appreciate people ceasing making up lies and propeling myths about the moderation of this forum, especially when they don't know whats going on. Thanks! We do not, nor have we ever, removed or editied postings based on personal opinions, no matter what some want to believe.

Now let's end another attack on this forum (this time I'm suprised at it's origination) and get back to discusssing hydrant markings please....

[Remember585 815]

My apologies. Back to the subject of "Hydrant markings."

[x635 4,066]

LOL on the above graphic.

Getting back to knowing all the hydrants in your first due, I totally agree that you should be equipped with that knowledge.

However, there are several situations where aids to your knowledge, such as GPS mapping, would be helpful.

For instance, besides my own first due (which rotates on a monthly basis- and between engine and truck), our department responds dual response with a number of surrounding departments in densly populated areas. A lot of the hydrants are in very unique locations, and sometimes the IC directs us to a specific hydrant, sometimes it's our job to find and secure.

We always check the running cards or running book for the closest hydrants enroute. But to have....and recall that information...expecially at 3AM on a busy night....we can all sometimes have brain farts. My department has MDT's and a CAD that will be capable of locating hydrants in our areas.....which even though we have the knowledge and the running info, having a dynamic source would be a great assest.

Also, in my department we have many large builldings, and need to know the sprinkler and standpipe locations to the precise place, and when we're working the truck, the exact position the truck should be in for these buildings. So. coupled with a whole bunch of other knowledge, sometimes simply recalling a hyrdrant cold can be tough.

And what if you go down to Pelham as a Mutual Aid tanker (if your dept has a tanker) for a water main break? How familiar will you be then? Sometimes, books aren't that great.

As sometihing additional, when the DPW burys a hydrant in snow and ice, especially one off a six lane highway, no matter how well you know where that hydrant is....sometimes your still whipping out a metal detector (another tool we carrry to find hydrants in winter)

Edited December 7, 2006 by x635

[ja3kfd 34]

Know that we are back on the subject, Going Mutual Aid is more what I was thinking about as well, if you are on standby out of your area, I can recall a few times Ossining being in Bedford Hills, on standby so it would have been hard for the host to be there to direct them too the hydrants.

GPS units is really the way to go.

As well the Flags seem to work out the best for us.

Who services and paints your hydrants? For us the Water Dept. does all that except digging out the snow.

Edited December 7, 2006 by ja3kfd

[Guest]

Great picture.....good recovery.

I think the flag system is the best way to mark hydrants, but isn't needed most ot the time because the guys who are driving, most likeyl, know where the hydrant is. Perhpas just reserve measures of added visability for hydrants that are somewhat hidden (bushes, buildings, whatever) As for snow, thats a tough one, but hopefully you can get a crew in quickly to start shoveling them out. I know that's a pain to shovel, but we don't get terrible burying snow too often.

[Guest]

in my department, we have water source maps in all of the rigs which covers the wole district. on that map, the primary and secondary water sourses are marked out in different colors so we can easily see which is the primary and which one is the secondary source of water. The map also tells us what the water source is, if it is a pond, pool, dry hydrant ect. having the water source marked as what it is can be very helpfull. we can look to see what water source is going to be appropriate to use. Lets say we have a fully invilved house, a sistern probably wont do the trick so we will lay to the next, or bigger water source. Although we might have to lay more 5 inch, we know that we wont run out of water in the middle of the operation.

In other departments, every day twice a day during the daily tone test, the dispacher will give a list of closed roads and the hydrants that are O.O.S. On top of that, when there is a call for something along the lines of a smoke condition, or anything that could be a possibal fire, after the initial dispach, the dispacher will hit the alert tones and notify responding units of water source locations.

[res6cue 67]

Well then, now that we got THAT cleared up! LOL...wow, that came out of left field!

[Remember585 815]

Well then, now that we got THAT cleared up! LOL...wow, that came out of left field!

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I edited my previous..... I apologize if I annoyed anyone if I seemed to have gone a little overboard. Problem resolved.

[res6cue 67]

Wait, so how does that work now? You were taking bets on it being edited/removed, but you edited it yourself?!? Does that mean the rest of us win the bet? Pay up!