Oldest Still-In-Service Apparatus In Westchester????

[x635 4,066]

What's the oldest still in service apparatus in Westchester?

I have two thoughts........either Yorktown Ladder 51, a 1968 Seagrave, or Ossining's 1963? Maxim Ladder, which is now serving in Port Chester, i think?

[EJS1810 7]

Isn't Somers 182 (1958 Seagrave)still concidered in service? Res20cue or Truck6018 will have to chime in on this

[TRUCK6018 50]

Yes Ed, Eng 182 is still in service and does see an occasional front line stint every now and then.

While it may not get to where you have to go as quick as todays pumpers, it still pumps like a champ. In fact, at recent pump testings, it out pumped one of the 2001 Seagraves!

[EJS1810 7]

Thats what I thought. Any one older then 182?

Moving North, can anyone beat Carmel 12-2-2 1969 Oren?

[chris498 31]

As for Putnam, I think Mahopac still has a 1965 Oren Pumper in service, and Cold Spring has Carmel's 1964 Oren Ladder. In Westchester, Rye's Maxim Tiller dates back to 1956 with a major refurb in 1985/86 when Ruscon added a new Spartan tractor and performed a major rehab of the tilller. I think Yorktown's 1934 Maxim pumper is officially the oldest in service pumper in the county.... although Katonah's 1928 ALF Pumper is still officially ENG. 114 with the county.

[TRUCK6018 50]

In Westchester, Rye's Maxim Tiller dates back to 1956 with a major refurb in 1985/86 when Ruscon added a new Spartan tractor and performed a major rehab of the tilller. I think Yorktown's 1934 Maxim pumper is officially the oldest in service pumper in the county.... although Katonah's 1928 ALF Pumper is still officially ENG. 114 with the county.

Ok, I understand the game with being "in service" with the county to keep the number. Our old 1949 Ward La France was "in service" until 2001 when it went to the American Museum of Firefighting in Hudson.

Although Rye's Maxim may still respond to alarms, it's been refurbed. We all know Yorktown's Maxim and Katonah's ALF doesn't respond to anything. So I ask this:

What is the oldest apparatus in Westchester in original condition, that still responds to alarms? As already stated, Somers E182, 1958 Seagrave fits the bill. Anything else?

[Guest DFFD227]

Dobbs Ferry uses engine 49 still, and it's a 1975 Seagrave, works great. But 1975 isnt THAT old.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Dobbs Ferry uses engine 49 still, and it's a 1975 Seagrave, works great. But 1975 isnt THAT old.

In addition to the '58 Seagrave, we also have a 1966 International brush truck that is still in active service.

Prior to 2001, we had a '75 Oren pumper (former E180)and 1950 ALF ladder (former L18) that were both in front line service traded in for their respective replacements.

[chris498 31]

I thought Dobbs Ferry's older Seagrave was a 1977........... as for the oldest...... I guess perhaps it is Somers, I can't think of any others that are older.

[Guest DFFD227]

YES, 1977, My bad...I was close though.

[BFD1054 1,552]

Just to add to this topic...Buchanan's former Utility-12 may have been the oldest in-sevice piece of apparatus in Westchester. It was a 1955 Chevy, used as our mobile air-truck. That was placed out of service this past January when we took delivery of its replacement, a 2003 E-One Cascade/light support unit. The old U-12 was a great truck for its age & is now at its final resting place at the Firemans Home museum in Hudson, NY. I believe its last call was mutual-aid to Peekskill at the Fremont St. OMD fire.

[x635 4,066]

Who do you guys think has the oldest ambulance in service?

[WAS967 97]

Until it was placed out of service, I'd have to say Mount Kisco. I forget what year thier old rig was, but it was OLD. I'll have to ask the Capt next time I see her. Or better yet, I have pictures, I think I took closeups of the registrations to capture the year. At Abbey Richmond, before the sale to Transcare, we had some ancient ambulances there as well. Tho I'd image they have since long gone to the scrap heap.

[WAS967 97]

Okay. Just found the pictures. The oldest rig MKVAC had was from 1987 - A Type III Ford....I can't make out who made it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any other agency with an older rig that is in service. Of course MKVAC has since taken that one out of service. Their other old one is from 1995.

[RES20CUE 40]

We talk about having the oldest apparatus in service- but is this really a good thing???

At several recent lectures I attended in Baltimore, as well as some articles I've read, several things were pointed out-

1) Any fire apparatus that is older than a 1979, should be retired, or in a museum!

2) Any apparatus that is older than a 1991, should be a Reserve piece, and should be refurbed to have as many updates to the 1991 revision of NFPA 1901.

In 1991, NFPA 1901 increased the safety of our Firefighters greatly, an apparatus older than that , could be questionable in an accident. We don't see 25 year old police cars, garbage trucks, highway trucks, or school buses- why do we allow 25 year old fire engines and trucks to run front line???

Things to ponder about! Westchester is one of the "richest" counties in America- we shouldn't be reponding in ANTIQUES to emergencies.

[Guest]

That would be great, will the NFPA pay for it?

[RES20CUE 40]

No, NFPA will not pay for it!

The Departments need to plan for the vehicles replacement. I know Departments that have a plan and budget, that they put away money every year towards the replacement of vehicles, and they replace them on schedule.

I know other departments that have no plan, budget, or anything and go out to referendum to try to get a new rig when the old one won't start anymore!

NFPA is there as a tool, it's not mandated, but some things sure make a lot of sense. Isn't OUR safety more important, than anyone elses? We put our butts on the line day in and day out, We should not have to do it on sub-standard equipment!

[Guest]

I was being sarcastic.The NFPA is there to make money not spend it. The NFPA is a tool of the manufacturers and equipment dealers to force departments into buying new equipment when it is not necessarily needed (remember the helmet issue). Just because something is " new and improved" it doesn't make it either. For christsakes sedan (crew) cabs have been around since the 1930's it's not as if they fell out of the sky when the NFPA wrote a standard.

I've said it before and I'll say it again the equipment being produced today is too large and too fast and is being driven for the most part recklessly, this applies to both sides of the service. Watch as a driver tries to navigate the traffic and the narrow streets of the older communities in the county with one of these new behemoths, then tell me it is safer.

As to putting money away every year, guess what, only fire districts are allowed to do that. It's illegal for a municipal fire dept. (city/village) to "save money". Don't forget the fire service is only one piece of the pie for the government of city or village, unlike a fire district which spends all its' time on the fire service. Any local politician will tell you the fire truck was a minute late, well that happens now and again; the garbage wasn't picked up or the library is closed, god help you because your not going to get reelected.

[RES20CUE 40]

I realize you were being sarcastic!

Yes, the crew cab was around for a long time, but it wasn't heavily used until mandated in 1991.

As far as the manufacturers go, the NFPA committees are also made up of Firefighters like you and me also, Not just manufacturers!

I don't agree with you totally on the size of equipment and older community streets, I work in an older community and run through those streets without much of a problem, that comes back to the committee who spec the rigs and driver training. And yes, I said it, and say it again- It's safer!!!

Ask anyone that has been involved in an accident in a newer rig, compared to a 25 year old rig, and see what they say.

And if a Fire District can put money away, so can a municipality, because a Fire District is a branch of Municipal Govt. I'm not a politician or a law buff, so I'm not sure how it all works. I agree about the politicians- but that will never change!

[Guest]

Ok, legal lesson number 1..... A fire district is a government all to itself. It is run by a board of commisioners who answer to the voters of the fire district ( read as firefighters unless a really controversial matter comes up like a whistle or new firehouse when everyone and their brother wants to vote). It has no affiliation with a town, city or village.

Under New York state law fire districts may save money from year to year for future use and this is perfectly legal.

Municipal departments ie. villages and cities are governed by a board of wardens which 99.9999% of the time is the village board of trustees or the city council. Municipalities, unlike fire districts may not save money from year to year for specific purposes. If you do not use your budgeted funds within the prescribed time, congratulations some other dept. of the village government ( Police, DPW, Recreation, Library etc. ) has just gotten a windfall at your expense and you will see your budget reduced a suitable amount in the next fiscal year.

I mean no disrespect to you when I see that your location is Somers, please understand that the laws that govern a fire district like Somers, Hartsdale or Greenville etc. don't apply to municipal fire departments such as Tarrytown, Ossining, Peekskill, New Rochelle, Mt. Vernon etc. etc..

The fire service in New York can fall under everything from a municipal department to a fire district to a fire protection district to a water district to independent fire companies all with it's own privileges and prohibitions under NYS law.

Are NYS laws arcane and convoluted, yes; will they be changed? absolutely not. It's not in Albanys' best interest to streamline government. And if anyone thinks that they can change that they're smoking in the shower.

As to your point about 25 year old equipment, take a look at your rig closely the next time your in quarters, how old is it? now look at the mileage and the engine hours and tell me how old it is. A police car, a garbage truck, a school bus etc. are heavily used day in and day out and receive nothing approaching the TLC that fire equipment does. If you look at 95% of the fire equipment in this county the average mileage and engine hours upon retirement are probably equal to what a garbage truck puts on in a few years and what a cop car does in less than a year. Plus I don't know about Somers but around here they don't store Garbage trucks and school busses in fancy heated buildings, they leave them out in all kinds of fun weather. Thats why our rigs last 25 years and theirs last only a few. Oh, I forgot, the cost is a factor too. $800k+ ladder/$90k garbage truck? Do the math

[WAS967 97]

Municipalities, unlike fire districts may not save money from year to year for specific purposes.

Since when? According to the scrolling "0% Tax Increase" thing that Linda Puglisi has running on the local access cable channels, Cortlandt has a sizable savings account for use on future projects. Is Cortlandt breaking the law?

[Guest]

Municipalities, unlike fire districts may not save money from year to year for specific purposes.

Read the quote, specific purposes... not a general reserve fund.

A fire district may set aside as much money every year as they care to and save it as long as they care to and raise taxes at the same time while designating a specific purpose ( new rig, firehouse etc.) If a municipal government tried this the state comptroller would be on them like white on rice.