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RWC130

Volunteer Firefighter and Volunteer EMT Burnout

34 posts in this topic

Let's all be honest here....

As much as we hate to admit it EVERY Volunteer Fire Department and EVERY Volunteer Ambulance Corps has manpower issues.

I have spent several years as a Volunteer Firefighter and Volunteer EMT.

I also spent some time as a Paid EMT.

I have seen a lot of good people in Volunteer Fire and Volunteer EMS

come and go with NOTHING done to keep them. Just bash them!

FF/EMT "John Doe" never comes around anymore. Get rid of him.

HMMMMM Did you ever stop to think and wonder WHY?

What does your agency do to handle BURNOUT?

Do you say "Turn In The Gear" and drop them?

Do you say "Give Us The Pager" and write them off?

Fire and EMS agencies should not only focus on bringing in New Members but

MEMBER RETENTION.

Any Thoughts?

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If the volunteers are anything like the career guys you have 10% of the members doing 100% of the work. This will go on till the end of the fire service and the end of the world. It is very tough to keep the interest in people when they feel as though they are being taken advantage of. I have no advice at this time but will ponder the thoughts tonight.

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I truthul belive that many EMTs are getting burnout and I truthfully believe that they should not be penilized for working hard and covering call when Crews are hard to get and when they need to take a break to relax from stressfull times. I feel that if EMTs get burnout they should take a month or two break till they feel they could get back in to it again but dont just jump right back in to it take it slow I have done it because I am a Volly FF/EMT for Verplanck with only a few EMTS and a Volly with Cortlandt Vac and I work for a Paid EMT company and after workin a week shift and then coming home to cover calls and when you have a day off and there are no EMTS around and the pager goes off three time and then the M/A tones go off and they cant get a crew you feel like you are the one that has to do it so it can be easy to get burnout but that is my 2 cents.

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This is an amazing topic... and it is totally true. I am in college, but when I am home I am a volunteer firefighter. I try to go to every call I can no matter what the call is. I love going on the calls, and I love doing the thing I do. I do belive that departments (I am not focusing on any one dept in general) do not try hard enough to keep the members that they have. If a member is not showing up, often times its just "ehh oh well" I think a better effort should be made to keep the members you have as well as bring new ones in. If a member is not showing up, ask why they are not comming. Maybe it is something at home, or maybe its a problem with a department or members. If that is the case it can get fixed (hopefully) and you will have a better department for it.

About getting burned out, I can see how that could happen. And I agree with Irishfire, after a while, you get tired. If you think you need a break take one, personally I would tell a chief or something, so they are not wondering about you, or know they are going to be a little lower on manpower (especially if you are one of the people who respond to most of the calls)

Edited by bibbles10504

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when im at work or at home and im avaible to go to calls i go. because in my town and in the vollies you never know whos showing up and how many people will be there. i could show up to a fire alarm and only 4 other guys are there. or a fire and you get everyone. but its usually the same old guys who do everything and in the summer the college guys do more but now when its just the older guys and us highschool kids we have to pull our wieght and than some.

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We've both seen our share in multiple agencies haven't we RWC. Excellent post.

This occurs on both sides of the fence. Trust me. Particulary in combo....nevermind.

This is an age old quesiton. I've seen it both ways. Treat new members like outsiders instead of bringing them into the family and teaching them and then the opposite end when person get burned out or abused or mis-treated.

How can you counteract this?

1. Well written policies and SOG's.

2. Enforcement of above as per such policy/SOG and the same for every member regardless of who he/she is or thinks he/she is.

3. A simple thank you goes a long way.

4. Talk and treat people the way you want to be spoken and treated like. Even if you have rank. Even titles in some aspects only go so far.

5. Treat people as equals and show them, not ridicule them or feel that you have to be on top of everything. Believe it or not, the agency survives when your not around just fine. Did before you and will after you. Why? Because of the person that is on either side of you.

These are just a few and before I get on a rant..I'm gonna stop.

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I believe that on the EMS side of things Volunteers and Career EMTs/Medics are geeting burnt out mostly because of the routine "taxi" transport. I believe that the E911 system is being abused by both the public and MDs who just say call 911 because a patient of theirs does not feel well. We will not be able to retain volunteers comming out when people keep on abusing the system.

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If the volunteers are anything like the career guys you have 10% of the members doing 100% of the work. This will go on till the end of the fire service and the end of the world. It is very tough to keep the interest in people when they feel as though they are being taken advantage of. I have no advice at this time but will ponder the thoughts tonight.

Basically the same with volunteers. You have your dirty dozen who do all the work and than you have your sponges who join and soak up whatever benefits there are and do as little as possible.

As far as burnout, I see more of it on the EMS side mostly due to the fact there are more EMT calls and you spend more time on EMS calls. Most fire calls you are back in the house within minutes unless it is a fire or other major incident.

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As far as career EMS's I disagree. I feel the burnout is very many providers I know don't and can't work for just one agency to make a decent living. They work full time for one and P/T or per diem for another.

Do I feel burned out sometimes, absolutely, for varying reasons. I have the option of not working a 2nd EMS job and doing 24's helps also instead of getting run all night long 2 night shifts in a row. Not everyone has that option. Volunteer EMS eats those whom care and can't stand a call to drop because someone needs an ambulance and you can't stand to hear 2nd, 3rd, 4th (ugh) tones go out.

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Another thing ive noticed is you get some guys who show up to calls but to be honest dont do a damn thing. Not because they are senior men. Many of them are junior men in the house who are eather good friends with the chief or family of the chief. Ive seen this in my department and i've seen/herd of it in neighboring departments.

We all know in 99.9% of departments there is "friends and family" and "others" if you are in the "others" catagory because you are not buddy buddy with the chief, family member, etc you will get stuck doing everything at calls. And i think that also contributes to burnout a little and is an issue in the fire service more so than EMS.

Weather it be at a medical call when EMT/EMS need lift help, or at a car fire) where for some reason the person in question doesnt have their bunkers ( they normaly use the excuse of i have to pass the scene which is a bs excuse from the start!) ) to help rake the hose, the burden of the operations fall largley on a group of 5-10 members.

Edited by danb

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While I have quite a few personal feeling and experience with this topic, for now I'd just like to say that Danb is dead on: nepotism is a HUGE problem and cancer in the volunteer services. Unfortunately, often times the reality is that there is very little that can be done to curb it if so many family and friends hold a majority of the high level positions. It's been like that forever and will likely continue forever, sadly.

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"Never Before Have So Few Done So Much With So Little For So Long"

I'd still love to hear an answer.....

HOW DO YOU HANDLE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER OR

VOLUNTEER EMT BURNOUT?

This is something that ALL officers should be aware of and

take some actions to prevent it.

"Turn in the Pager and Gear" should be a LAST resort!

Does ANY department take steps to prevent this?

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I once attended a conference where a speaker described volunteer services as having long term problems and short term leaders. It was true then and it remains true today.

How much of an impact can an officer have when his tenure is usually only a couple of years? True, he or she can be a positive role model, can influence the agency, etc. but the reality is by the time he or she has an understanding of their role and can set an agenda for change, they're running for reelection or moving up/out.

Is this really a line officer problem or is it one that should be addressed by the governing body (commissioners, board of directors, or whatever) and the line officers collaboratively? There must be more that can be done to attract members, get them trained and involved, and keep them active!

There must be strategies that will heighten the interest of potential members, energize the existing ones, and allow a department to get out the door with a competent crew in a short time. I've heard some talking about abandoning pagers for first calls and rostering first due units in house to limit the amount of time someone has to be tied to the pager and get up in the middle of the night. Anyone experimenting with that locally?

Great topic! Can't wait to see more ideas.

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3.  A simple thank you goes a long way.

4.  Talk and treat people the way you want to be spoken and treated like.  Even if you have rank.  Even titles in some aspects only go so far.

These are two small but excellant ways to keep someone involved in an agency. In the volunteeer service, when our only "pay" is the thanks we get or the feeling of helping, a little "thank you" from the bosses can go a long way.

Are there other things we should be doing? Yes I'm sure there are. I feel you have to know your membership and thier wants and needs to do something that helps keep them involved.

If you have a younger membership and they want to purchase a Large Screen TV, the latest PS-5 or Nintendo WIIIIIII, then that is something that should be concidered finances permitting. it will keep members at the station and the first due would get out that much quicker. Too often the older guys will vote no on such a thing and then you start to loose the younger guys because they feel the Department dosent care about them.

The main idea is to keep an open mind when somebody suggests something. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it won't help keep someone arround.

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Speaking of younger guys.... I am a younger guy. I havent been doing this for very long but everything I have done with both fire and EMS I have loved. I totally agree with everything that is being said here, I think one thing that burns people out is needing to respond after the 2nd, 3rd... and possibly 4th set of tones. It is fustrating to know that someone is waiting that long for you to come. Just an example here, but if you were planning on having a nice relaxing dinner with your family or something along those lines, and you hear the tones go off. It helps to know that you wont here them again and you wont need to worry about disturbing your family time (or what ever it is your doing). I think knowing that someone will respond within the next couple min. is important.

This being said, This can only happen if people are encouraged to spend time at the fire house. Hang out, watch tv, work out, eat... what ever you want to do. But the more people are there for more time, the faster you are going to role out of the house and the less other people in the department need to worry about how many tones they wait untill they respond.

On another note, I do think that most of the work is done by a core number of people, this needs to change because eventually that core group will burn out and needs to be replaced. And lets face it, less and less people are volunteering, so you need to work hard to keep what you have and work hard to get new people to join.

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I am kind of confused about Volunteer firefighter burnout. Before I was a paid guy I was a vollie for about 6 years. Now I've been a paid guy for about 10. My confusion comes from wondering what volunteer firefighter burnout is. What are you getting burned out from? Call volume...doubt it. Details at the firehouse that have to get done...doubt it. After living the life of both a vollie and a paid guy I have to say that my guys and I do more in a 24 hour shift (between runs, house details, admin details, training, and any thing else that comes up) than most vollie dept.'s probably do in a week or even a month or more. This being said there really isn't much burnout in the career service. If anything there is frustration from lack of activity. So, why are you getting burned out? Shouldn't you be excited to go on runs? Shouldn't you want to be at the firehouse? I'm not sure what type of firefighter gets burned out in todays day and age, but maybe someone can enlighten me.

p.s. My above statements do not apply to EMS workers as they put up with more crap than amy other emergency workers, and it has been well documented about their burnout.

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Jason762, this was never about volly vs career. Volunteer burnout comes from having to meet dept requirements for training, fundraising, meetings, etc.. on top of your family duties/obligations, working 2 jobs, etc... There is only so much someone can do. I'm feeling burnt out from starting a new job, going to drills, company meeting, officer meetings & combined officers meetings on top of my assigned duties I must do. I've been a firefighter for 14 years now and dealing with dumb people calling the dispatch center, I feel I need a break. Volunteers go 24/7 7 days a week w/o a break.

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So far on this thread there is nothing Career vs. Volley. Only thing I see is Jason trying to figure out why guys are getting burned out. He is relating to when he was a volley.

Everytime someone wants to speak from a career perspective does'nt make it career vs volley.

Edited by ltrob

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So far on this thread there is nothing Career vs. Volley.  Only thing I see is Jason trying to figure out why guys are getting burned out.  He is relating to when he was a volley.

Everytime someone wants to speak from a career perspective does'nt make it career vs volley.

Thank you ltrob!!! You hit the nail right on the head. Just because I raised a question that has to do with vol. and career FF's doean't mean this is a this guy vs. that guy argument. I know its very easy to jum on that bandwagon but in this case its not true. I am just wondering why so many vollies are feeling burnt out. I work 2 jobs plus OT, take college classes, try to see my wife as often as I can, attend union meetings, and attend a whole lot of training, yet I feel anything but burned out. I don't understand why a person who is "on-duty 24/7" like was stated earlier, but probably only runs a few hundred calls a year (if that), and attend a few meetings and drills would feel burnt out??? If you are tired of dealing with dumb people, maybe you should find another line of work. If there were no dumb people there really wouldn't be much of a need for FF's. You should love what you do, if you view all these requirments as a hassle, then go find something else to do. This may seem like a stretch but these attitudes tie in to such things as LODD's. If people looked at the FD as more of a job and less of a social club and took things like training a little more serious (or actually attended training in the first place), maybe we could reduce the LODD's in the fire service.

Volunteers go 24/7 7 days a week w/o a break

Lets not exaggerate things, ltjay. I'm sure you're VFD is not so busy that it is just non-stop action all day and night. Who's kidding who here...nobody is going non-stop 24/7.

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I believe that on the EMS side of things Volunteers and Career EMTs/Medics are geeting burnt out mostly because of the routine "taxi" transport. I believe that the E911 system is being abused by both the public and MDs who just say call 911 because a patient of theirs does not feel well. We will not be able to retain volunteers comming out when people keep on abusing the system.

I have to disagree. 911 is a service that the public uses when they feel they need help. No one can sit back and say "oh well it doesn't sound or appear that that person is not having a legitimate emergency." The public pays for it, thus they can use it as they wish i don't think its really any third party's right to sit back and judge that person. Not to mention the fact that transports can be a rather useful tool to practice patient assessment skills, hospital reporting and the like. I really don't see what i just described would lead to burn out, maybe i'm missing something? Not every call is going to be a hot trauma or cardiac arrest, if you want to be a glory seeker then you need to rethink your rationale for getting into EMS. You cant pick and choose the calls you go to, you either go (or make an effort to go to) all or you do none. I just don't see how you can relate relative non-emergency transports of the public and volunteer retention and career/volunteer burnout is just a poor excuse for a much larger issue.

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66alpha1 great post. Mikerabbit I also disagree. The problem isn't the "taxi" runs. The problem for many as I said is for private providres whom don't make a fair salary and are working multiple ems jobs. If persons in volunteer EMS are getting burned out it is because their agency has problems and they are bearing much of the brunt of lack of personnel.

Its not the public's nor the MD's fault for dialing 911 because someone doesn't feel well. Who's number is 911? Its ours, if you don't educate people that's your fault not theirs. This is magic knowledge for people, we tell them to call if they need assitance, have an emergency or whatever.

Here's another question. You have patient fill out an RMA, a standard response to them signing that will also protect you liably, and there RMA's are a very high percentage of lawsuits, is to say after you discuss signs and symptoms of more serious problems in regard to their injury or illness is "if anything changes or develops, contact your doctor, the nearest medical facility or call and have us come back. What number do you think they are going to call? What is our phone number when you want an ambulance, a 7 digit number...nope its 911.

Jason 762...good post. Nowhere near career vs. volly. Some on here lately need to take a deep breath.

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Burnout is caused by two things in my eyes. Your personal excuses and the excuses of your superiors. Allow me to elaborate.

Personal excuses. The reasons you give and the rationalizations you make with yourself to give yourself the notion that you are either too busy, too experienced, too well-trained or too good to be bothered with your firehouse. When you join, in most cases, it is explained to you RIGHT OFF THE BAT. Period. In addition to that, most times your firehouse will either have pre-arranged training nights like, say, every Monday, or if something comes up they post it all over the place. In addition to training, all of us have to pitch in to get our work done. It won't happen by the "cleanup fairies," believe me, I'm still waiting to see them. Just because you may not be into parades doesn't exempt you from helping out if it is one of the things you are required to do. Lastly, ignoring your pager for a call that, well, sounds lame, is highly unacceptable. If you are home and not doing anything - what excuse do you really have? Are you going to wait until that automatic alarm is upgraded to a house fire? Good team spirit - the brothers are already on scene taking a beating by the time your lazy a** shows up. Obviously if you have done your time (20 years, 25 years, etc.) then yes, you can scale it back because you've EARNED that right.

Excuses by the Superiors. Not admitting a manpower problem, not addressing poor policies / guidelines and ignoring equipment issues is a huge "no-no." Manpower - what steps do your bosses take to retain the good members, rid the bad ones and pickup new ones? What about policies and guidelines? Are they enforced, are they taught to everyone and DO THEY EXIST?! Equipment problems, there should be no problem. If it is broke, and it is vital, fix it. Using excuses of costs, not being able to work a computer, not knowing how to create SOGs are unacceptable.

As a member, be a part of the TEAM or hit the road. As a leader, LEAD by doing what is right or STEP DOWN.

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If the volunteers are anything like the career guys you have 10% of the members doing 100% of the work. This will go on till the end of the fire service and the end of the world. It is very tough to keep the interest in people when they feel as though they are being taken advantage of. I have no advice at this time but will ponder the thoughts tonight.

Lad22der you have it right on. No matter what type of service (career of volunteer EMT or FD or even PD's too) it is the same people all the time that are doing the work.

Keeping in line with the topic:

Also to as a former line officer in a volunteer department, you get burnt out dealing with the "glory hounds" and we all know who they are in the department. These members are the ones who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They don;t go to drills, take part in functions ect, ect, ect but always show up for the big one and get in the way.

Now how to combat volunteer burnout, simple, pace your self. You don't need to go to every call and don't get upset that you missed a "good" call. Remember the rule is always family and yourself first and don't forget about your job / school commitment as well. Never let being a volunteer get in the way of your major commitments, not say that being in a VFD is not one, you need to learn to allocate your time.

For VAC's or FD's with corps, they should have shifts, this also might be a good idea for volunteer FD's for the routing calls as well. One night a week is fine and a weekend day in rotation. With a shift crew on for the night for a few hours or overnight crew, you make your commitment but you don't over do it. But also in case the major alarm comes in, you don't feel the pressure that you have to do everything. Its a matter of involvement and if you stress out over it, you become effected and burnout, especially in high run departments and corps. Take a step back an make other people the up to the plate. We all want to wear that big "S' on out chest but sometimes putting on the suit, glasses and hat is better too.

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Ok... I started to read most of the replies to your topic and I think that they have gone off topic a bit, so I will try to answer your question. If someone has already mentiones this...I apologise. It just started to look like a Volly Vs. Paid thing again! blink.gif

Our dept sends a group of us to Vital Signs every year. Two years ago, our then new Second Lt and Myself went to one seminar called "The three R's of EMS". It stood for Recruitment, Retention, Recognition. It was an excellent class and I enjoyed every second of it, heck, I even took notes!! ohmy.gif

We learned a lot about recruitment and retention matters dealing specifically with volunteer agencies. We took that back home and started a committee called "The Three R Committee" and it is run by the members. The officers have no say at the meetings; advice and opinions yes, but the final say comes down to the membership votes. It has helped to solve a lot of problems with getting people to respond to calls, drills and meetings, and now people are getting the recognition they deserve with a proper awards banquet and annual events like picnics, trips to Great Escape in Lake George, and other family oriented events like Bowling Parties. We rented out the local lanes, invited members and their immediate families, and we bowled all day. We had pizza, wings, ice cream and beverages. With all of these things we seem to have a better turnout. People are seeing that the squad is appreciative for the help they donate so they give more time.

There are rules though...not strict ones but rules all the same! wink.gif We implemented a point scale for membership. You get a certain amount of points for certain events, and you need 45 points for the year to be a member in good standing, and you need to be a member in good standing to go to these squad events. It is working well and our membership is improving.

Hope that helps! wink.gif

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Jason762, this was never about volly vs career. Volunteer burnout comes from having to meet dept requirements for training, fundraising, meetings, etc.. on top of your family duties/obligations, working 2 jobs, etc... There is only so much someone can do. I'm feeling burnt out from starting a new job, going to drills, company meeting, officer meetings & combined officers meetings on top of my assigned duties I must do. I've been a firefighter for 14 years now and dealing with dumb people calling the dispatch center, I feel I need a break. Volunteers go 24/7 7 days a week w/o a break.

If you feel you need a break perhaps a leave of absence is in order. And volunteers do not go 24/7, never did. That saying may look good on t-shirts but it is simply not true. I have been a volunteer for almost 27 years and do not recall operating 24/7.

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"Burn-out" ...that phrase makes me think of physical fatigue. Clearly, on your average day in your average fire department, the volunteer corps is not going to be physically tired due to call volume, work details, etc. You have your few times a year when you wake up sore and remember the job that called you out of bed at some odd hour, but usually if you're tired it's from something else in your everyday life.

The type of stresses that plague the volunteer fire service are more on the mental/emotional side of the spectrum. Members may get sick and tired of dealing with the same problems around the firehouse and on calls, whether they are firematic or political in nature. We can all think of examples within dept's that we are familiar with.

I ask: What is done to keep members happy? ...and I don't mean big-screen TV's and pool tables...

...When new members join, are they assigned a veteran member to be their sponsor/mentor? Do the company officers make themselves available to new members? When your company holds a meeting, and complaints are voiced, are those complaints forwarded to your chiefs/wardens/commissioners if warranted?

Members who are worth their weight in gold are the ones who don't just want to see fires and car crashes, they want to see that they belong to an organization that is forward-thinking, resourceful and goal-oriented.

This all relates to new member retention, which is paramount in this day and age.... It's no secret to anyone who reads these boards that there are manpower problems in the volunteer fire service throughout the US.

When you are the small fish in the big, salty, crusty, charred-leather pond, it is easy to be scared away and decide to devote your free time to other ventures. We have to remember that we were not all born into this service, we have not all actually wanted to be firefighters since we were kids... There are many dedicated volunteers who decide to join without knowing a thing about the service, without being buddies with half of the department... People who join after settling into a new community, or after changing jobs or lifestyles... These are the people we need to pay special attention to as they join the firefighting community. If not, the volunteer fire service is going to face the consequences of in-breeding that plague our old friend the Dalmation... Let's not become blind and deaf.

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I've been a firefighter for 14 years now and dealing with dumb people calling the dispatch center, I feel I need a break. Volunteers go 24/7 7 days a week w/o a break.

The vast majority of the people who call the 911 center are taxpayers and 100% of them are CUSTOMERS.

No matter what amount of compensation that you receive in your service (paid,vol., call), we should all remember who (and more importantly) WHY we are servicing/protecting/helping/etc. others.

A wise Chief once told me "we do not decide what the emergencies are, the customers do....."

Although there are plenty of times that my company responds to less than exciting requests for service, the person who was calling thought their problem was worthy of a second opinion (ours). Sometimes just our presence and and listening is all that is required, sometimes it is more..

As far as volunteers running 24/7/7....as a former resident of your area....I do not remember there being that type of constant activity....but then again I do work 42 hours (or more) per week for my employer and may have missed something. biggrin.gif

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Jason762, this was never about volly vs career. Volunteer burnout comes from having to meet dept requirements for training, fundraising, meetings, etc.. on top of your family duties/obligations, working 2 jobs, etc... There is only so much someone can do. I'm feeling burnt out from starting a new job, going to drills, company meeting, officer meetings & combined officers meetings on top of my assigned duties I must do. I've been a firefighter for 14 years now and dealing with dumb people calling the dispatch center, I feel I need a break. Volunteers go 24/7 7 days a week w/o a break.

Just remember these things that you have stated are all valid points. I have been in the fire service for 20 years. And in the beginning I didn't want to miss anything. But as I got older I went to fewer calls , not as many drills , not as many meetings. Thats no ones fault, thats life. Remember that it is volunteer and you shouldn't feel or be made to feel you need to be at everything. Yes training, drilling are important , being informed about what is going on in your department is important also , but not at the cost of your family life. I had seen someone write in a previous post, '' the fire service will survive when your gone''. Departments always seem to get the job done . IF YOU NEED A BREAK, TAKE A BREAK. You don't have to go to every call.

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When someone leaves as a volunteer it may be called "burnout" but usually there is a another reason that brought about the final decision to leave. There may be a conflict witihin the department that is caused by one group vs another. Sometimes people get upset if they lose an election and feel unappreciated. It can also be outside factors as working more hours in a new job or just having had a baby. We all have 24 hours in a day and no matter how big a buff you may be, those 24 hours have to split between work, family, sleep and being a volunteer. This is where department officers need to treat there members as "people" and not just firemen. If you see a member is around less, give him a call or take to the side and ask if everything is OK. Let them know you care about the person not just his attendance.

To answer Jason, its not a career issue because your not trying attend training/calls/meetings on top of you job because it is your job. It would only be an issue if you were still volunteering in addition to your career job. Then you are dividing your 24 hours between work/family and being a volunteer.

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I believe that there are a few issues that cause "burnout". One, unfortunately is the lack of fires. We all know that the exhillaration of fighting fires is one of the main reasons for us to be here. When there is a lack of fires the morale can dip, and members get down. I know that there are people that will disagree, but no amount of training will make up for a real fire. Not only the actual fire, but talking to others about the fire for weeks after. What you did, where you were...etc. It keeps the blood boiling(no pun intended)!!

Another issue is that there are some 40 members per company and we all have to cover each other. If you need a break tell an officer, and they will make sure that there is coverage. We need to utilize the membership that we have.

It is about working together as a team. We all cover for each other to get the job done.

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