Chinese Sub Stalked USS Kitty Hawk carrier

[Guest]

The Washington Times

www.washingtontimes.com

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China sub stalked U.S. fleet

By Bill Gertz

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Published November 13, 2006

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.

    The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.

    The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.

    Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China. The four-star admiral was scheduled to meet senior Chinese military leaders during the weeklong visit, which began over the weekend.

    According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.

    The surfaced submarine was spotted by a routine surveillance flight by one of the carrier group's planes.

    The Kitty Hawk battle group includes an attack submarine and anti-submarine helicopters that are charged with protecting the warships from submarine attack.

    According to the officials, the submarine is equipped with Russian-made wake-homing torpedoes and anti-ship cruise missiles.

    The Kitty Hawk and several other warships were deployed in ocean waters near Okinawa at the time, as part of a routine fall deployment program. The officials said Chinese submarines rarely have operated in deep water far from Chinese shores or shadowed U.S. vessels.

    A Pacific Command spokesman declined to comment on the incident, saying details were classified. Pentagon spokesmen also declined to comment.

    The incident is a setback for the aggressive U.S.-China military exchange program being promoted by Adm. Fallon, who has made several visits to China in recent months in an attempt to develop closer ties.

    However, critics of the program in the Pentagon say China has not reciprocated and continues to deny U.S. military visitors access to key facilities, including a Beijing command center.

  In contrast, Chinese military visitors have been invited to military exercises and sensitive U.S. facilities. Additionally, military intelligence officials said Adm. Fallon has restricted U.S. intelligence-gathering activities against China, fearing that disclosure of the activities would upset relations with Beijing.

  The restrictions are hindering efforts to know more about China's military buildup, the officials said. "This is a harbinger of a stronger Chinese reaction to America's military presence in East Asia," said Richard Fisher, a Chinese military specialist with the International Assessment and Strategy Center, who called the submarine incident alarming.

  "Given the long range of new Chinese sub-launched anti-ship missiles and those purchased from Russia, this incident is very serious," he said. "It will likely happen again, only because Chinese submarine captains of 40 to 50 new modern submarines entering their navy will want to test their mettle against the 7th Fleet."

  Pentagon intelligence officials say China's military buildup in recent years has produced large numbers of submarines and surface ships, seeking to control larger portions of international waters in Asia, a move U.S. officials fear could restrict the flow of oil from the Middle East to Asia in the future.

    Between 2002 and last year, China built 14 new submarines, including new Song-class vessels and several other types, both diesel- and nuclear-powered.

    Since 1996, when the United States dispatched two aircraft carrier battle groups to waters near Taiwan in a show of force, Beijing also has bought and built weapons designed specifically to attack U.S. aircraft carriers and other warships. "The Chinese have made it clear that they understand the importance of the submarine in any kind of offensive or defensive strategy to deal with a military conflict," an intelligence official said recently.

  In late 2004, China dispatched a Han-class submarine to waters near Guam, Taiwan and Japan. Japan's military went on emergency alert after the submarine surfaced in Japanese waters.

    Beijing apologized for the incursion. The Pentagon's latest annual report on Chinese military power stated that China is investing heavily in weapons designed "to interdict, at long ranges, aircraft carrier and expeditionary strike groups that might deploy to the western Pacific."

  It could not be learned whether the U.S. government lodged a protest with China's government over the incident or otherwise raised the matter in official channels.

[res6cue 67]

In today's day and age, we couldn't detect a DIESEL sub following a carrier group? Even with a Los Angeles class attack sub in the group? That's scary.

(Yes, I know diesels run quiet on batteries when submerged, but still, this is WWII technology!)

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I was thinking the same thing brother. No reason why it should have gotten that close, especially being a diesel powered sub.

Perhaps complacency? Breach of policy?

[27east 19]

Why are they invited to US military facilities? China is not a "friendly" country.

and where-o-where was the rest of the battle group while the Chinese sub was around? How did no one detect this?

Edited November 14, 2006 by 23piraf

[Guest]

You see fellas, we cannot upset the apple cart and must play nice. The world economy turns as long as the following holds true: we, US, commit to buying any/all imports China wishes to produce and, in exchange, they use the proceeds $$$ to buy US Govt debt, financing our massive deficits and allowing us to have low interest rates and buy our vacation homes.

Problem is (for them as they see it), Chinese are a major world power without major weaponry to match. So, they have started an aggressive, fast military build up for which they have unlimited $$ reserves to spend (close to $ 1 trillion in the piggy bank at last count and, NO deficits of any kind).

It sucks but that's the cold truth. And, if we complain too loudly, they move into Taiwan and the s___t really hits the ceiling fan.....

November 13, 2006

Navy confirms Chinese sub spotted near carrier

By Philip Creed

Staff writer

NavyTimes.com

The Navy did spot a Chinese submarine near the Kitty Hawk Carrier Strike Group last month in the East China Sea, the Navy said Monday afternoon, verifying parts of a Monday morning article in The Washington Times that said a Chinese submarine had come within “firing range†of the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk on Oct. 26.

“While conducting operations, a Chinese navy Song-class submarine was sighted near the strike group by a U.S. Navy aircraft,†said Navy spokesman Lt. Sarah Self-Kyler, who would say only that the incident occurred in “late October†near Okinawa, Japan.

Both ships were operating in international waters at the time, Self-Kyler said, and “there was no communication†between the submarine and any U.S. Navy vessels after the sub was spotted.

The Kitty Hawk group was conducting routine carrier training at the time of the incident, Self-Kyler said, adding that the strike group was not conducting anti-submarine warfare operations during the exercise.

The Washington Times report claimed that the submarine “shadowed†Kitty Hawk, surfacing within five miles of the carrier before it was finally spotted by an aircraft.

Self-Kyler would confirm only that the sub was “in close proximity†of the strike group and could not say how long the submarine remained on the surface after being spotted.

Kitty Hawk and a number of 7th Fleet ships are currently taking part in the AnnualEx 18G, the largest annual bilateral exercise between the Navy and Japan’s Maritime Self-Defense Force, according to the Navy.

The Kitty Hawk departed its home port of Yokosuka, Japan, on Oct. 17 for a fall deployment.

The Future Fleet

The PLAN (Peoples Liberation Army Navy)'s ambitions include operating out to the first and second island chains, as far as the South Pacific near Australia and spanning to the Aleutian islands, and operations extending to the Straits of Malacca near the Indian Ocean.

The future PLAN fleet will be composed of a balance of assets aimed at maximising the PLAN's fighting effectiveness.

On the high end, there would be high technology destroyers equipped with long range air defense missiles (052B/052C, 051C); destroyers armed with sophisticated anti-ship weaponry (Sovremenny class); advanced nuclear powered attack and ballistic missile submarines (Type 093, Type 094); advanced conventional attack submarines (Kilo and Yuan); aircraft carriers and large amphibious warfare vessels capable mobilizing troops at long distances.

On the medium and low end, there would be more economical yet multi-role capable frigates and destroyers (upgraded Luda, Luhu, Jiangwei II, 054A); fast littoral missile attack craft (Houjian, Houxin, 220X); various landing ships and light craft; conventionally powered coastal patrol submarines (Song).

The future fleet will have the obsolete combat ships (based on 1960s designs) phased out in the coming decades as more modern designs enter full production.

It may take until 2025 until the bulk of these older ships are retired. Until then, they will serve principally on the low end, as multi-role patrol/escort platforms. Their use could be further enhanced in the future by being used as fast transports or fire support platforms.

2001-2006 so far have demonstrated a rapid building and acquisition program.

There were more than a dozen new classes of ships built in these last five years, totalling some sixty brand new ships (including landing ships and auxiliaries). Simultaneously, dozens of other ships have been either phased out of service or refitted with new equipment.

There has been speculation about PLAN building or acquiring an aircraft carrier [1], but the idea appears to have a lower priority than other efforts. Most naval analysts believe that, without significant overall naval modernization, a PLAN aircraft carrier at present would be militarily useless and would take resources away from other parts of the military. This assessment appears to be shared by the Chinese military and political leadership. China currently has the Kuznetsov class Soviet aircraft carrier Varyag in Dalian. China could finish this carrier and make it operational, or simply use it for takeoff and landing training.

On March 10, 2006, People's Liberation Army Lt. Gen. Wang Zhiyuan announced that China will research and build an aircraft carrier and develop a CVBG.[1]

Observers said the first carrier would be deployed to secure South China Sea energy supply line.

source: wikipedia.com

[Guest]

for the record its really hard to detect a diesel sub. With nuclear sub you can hear the machinery working in the reactor. While running on just a battery a diesel can be nearly a hole in the water. If the crew is being extra cautious about making noise inside theres no real chance for a surface ship to catch it. The best method of finding a sub is to use another sub. A surface ship makes way too much noise to be effective in sub hunting. Thats why most of our destroyers carry helicopters. Besides picking up the mail they are supposed to be looking for subs.

[IzzyEng4 427]

The Chinese are doing the same manuvers that the Soviets did during the "war games" era of the cold war. I'm not saying that what they area doing is right because at least the Soviets and us new were were trailing each other b4 hand. This is definatly gonna raise some concerns and flags now. (at least it better).

[Guest]

This appears to support cisforsmasher's comment:

Chinese Boat Gets Real Close to U.S. Carrier

November 14, 2006:

The U.S. Navy is being tight lipped about reports that, on October 26th, a Chinese Song class submarine got within missile range (8 kilometers) of the U.S. carrier Kitty Hawk.

The Chinese sub was spotted when it surfaced. The American carrier is supposed to be protected from this sort of thing by anti-submarine helicopters, and an SSN (nuclear attack submarine.)

The Song class boats are the most modern diesel-electric subs in Chinese service.

Displacing about 2,000 tons on the surface, the 246 foot long, Songs carry anti-ship missiles and torpedoes. The first Song entered service nine years ago.

The boats can be very quiet when moving underwater, even though the Chinese have not yet mastered the most recent silencing techniques.  Similar Australian subs have frequently gotten within attack range of American carriers. So have diesel-electric boats from other nations.

While the Chinese have a reputation for poorly trained crews, the sixty sailors on the Song boats may be the new exception.

Chinese subs have been seen at sea much more frequently over the past few years.

That kind of experience, and an American carrier group that had never known Chinese subs to operate that far out on the high seas, may have become lax enough to let it happen.

source: strategypage.com

[Guest ksneubec]

"Similar Australian subs have frequently gotten within attack range of American carriers. "

Great, we even have to worry about the Australian's now?

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

"Similar Australian subs have frequently gotten within attack range of American carriers. "

Great, we even have to worry about the Australian's now?

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Edited November 17, 2006 by hoss