Fire Chief Going Into A Burning Building?

[mfc2257 464]

Everyone is off on a tangent here....

Here are the logical conclusions from everything that's been said:

During suppression operations the incident commanding chief should not be inside.

If there are multiple chiefs on scene and a proper incident command system can be established like the one myself and ALSFIREFIGHTER were talking about before then it is absolutely feasable for a chief to manage interior command.

For the folks out there that are arguing that no chief at any time should be in a structure fire then you've got to sit down and take an Incident Command Systems Class & also take some time to sit and read the SOG's and SOP's of large city and county run departments where chiefs are routinely assigned to interior or roof operations as that division commander.

Finally in the world of mutual aid, if a chief responds mutual aid with a piece of apparatus and the department commander who is recieving mutual aid does not need that chief to act as part of the Incident Command System, then that chief should be operating with his crew and not standing around doing nothing.

[robert benz 344]

Everyone is off on a tangent here....

Here are the logical conclusions from everything that's been said:

During suppression operations the incident commanding chief should not be inside.

If there are multiple chiefs on scene and a proper incident command system can be established like the one myself and ALSFIREFIGHTER were talking about before then it is absolutely feasable for a chief to manage interior command.

For the folks out there that are arguing that no chief at any time should be in a structure fire then you've got to sit down and take an Incident Command Systems Class & also take some time to sit and read the SOG's and SOP's of large city and county run departments where chiefs are routinely assigned to interior or roof operations as that division commander.

Finally in the world of mutual aid, if a chief responds mutual aid with a piece of apparatus and the department commander who is recieving mutual aid does not need that chief to act as part of the Incident Command System, then that chief should be operating with his crew and not standing around doing nothing.

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I dont think it went to a chief cant be inside tangent, i think it is now who runs the fire and if only 1 chief is on scene he should not be directly involved in the firefight

of course the more chiefs and officers the more control you can have over the situation inside and out. my biggest concern with a pump operator trying to do both the pumping and ic is unless you are one of those fancy depts with wireless headsets, how much noise is at the pumppanel are you going to hear all transmissions and if it is hard wired to the rig you are kind of tethered to the rig and may not be able to see whats going on if you are on the opposite sid eof the apparatus.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Should a Chief (of the Department) go inside to fight a fire? Heres some questions to ask yourselves.

He / She is a firefighter right?

In a volunteer setting, after the chief steps down, he / she may return back to the line right?

If the chief's assistants, deputies and battalions are very competent and it is not warrented, does the chief of the department have to run the scene?

If a chief is working side-by-side with the firefighters of the department, wouldn't that help moral since the chief is working with them?

While fighting a fire, if a department chief is inside with the companies, wouldn't his knowledge utilized inside be the same or possibly better as his deputies, assistants & battalions'?

Should a chief just be relegated to just outside operations???

We can all come up with arguments for and against each question I sure but heed this, and I write in capital for emphasis only:

A CHIEF OF A DEPARTMENT IS STILL A FIREFIGHTER AND HAS A HEART OF A FIREFIGHTER!

I know many department chiefs, both career and volunteer that still run in side by side with the rank and file and the companies appreciate that their leader is standing with them. Yes as a person gets older or not physically able to anymore, that is a totally different situation or if the chief's expertise is needed out side to run an incident, that is a given.

NEVER SAY THAT IT IS NOT A CHIEF'S JOB TO FIGHT A FIRE FROM THE INSIDE AND ITS NOT HIS JOB ANYMORE. (Statement in caps just to emphasize not yelling).

I just find it odd that their is opposition to stop a chief of the department from being what he/she is, a firefighter.

Just my 2 cents.

[ex-commish 490]

some one told me at the firehouse that a fire chief went into a buring building

now i dont mean after the fire i mean actuly geared up and got a nozzle in his hands .i have never seen this happen but i think it is stuiped for a chief to go into a building its not his job any more....

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If I may put my 2 cents in here being a former chief. First, what was case here? Was this an assistant chief with the main chief or IC outside? As an assisant I went in many times with my crews because the head chief was there to run the incident. When I became chief of the dept and I had both my assistants with me I designated one as ops and one as interior ( if i had that luxury). For the most part I believe the IC..wether it be the chief, asst chief, captain..etc should be and also remain at the command post. As hard as it was for me to stand outside and hold a radio while everyone else ran in it was my job to do so and my crews relied on me to do my job to help them do thiers and allow the line officers to manage the crews inside.

Great topic !!!

[robert benz 344]

Should a Chief (of the Department) go inside to fight a fire? Heres some questions to ask yourselves.

He / She is a firefighter right?

In a volunteer setting, after the chief steps down, he / she may return back to the line right?

If the chief's assistants, deputies and battalions are very competent and it is not warrented, does the chief of the department have to run the scene?

If a chief is working side-by-side with the firefighters of the department, wouldn't that help moral since the chief is working with them?

While fighting a fire, if a department chief is inside with the companies, wouldn't his knowledge utilized inside be the same or possibly better as his deputies, assistants & battalions'?

Should a chief just be relegated to just outside operations???

We can all come up with arguments for and against each question I sure but heed this,  and I write in capital for emphasis only:

A CHIEF OF A DEPARTMENT IS STILL A FIREFIGHTER AND HAS A HEART OF A FIREFIGHTER!

I know many department chiefs, both career and volunteer that still run in side by side with the rank and file and the companies appreciate that their leader is standing with them.  Yes as a person gets older or not physically able to anymore, that is a totally different situation or if the chief's expertise is needed out side to run an incident, that is a given. 

NEVER SAY THAT IT IS NOT A CHIEF'S JOB TO FIGHT A FIRE FROM THE INSIDE AND ITS NOT HIS JOB ANYMORE.  (Statement in caps just to emphasize not yelling).

I just find it odd that their is opposition to stop a chief of the department from being what he/she is, a firefighter.

Just my 2 cents.

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i am missing something here, why elect the guy chief if you need his expertise as a nozzleman, yeah he is a firefighetr and hopefully still able to do the job, but isnt the whole purpose of having a chief to lead the fireground not be knee deep in the middle of it and as far as a chief fighting a fire goes great, see it all the time, ONLY AFTER THE COMMAND POST IS FILLED BY A CHIEF,

and IF the chiefs expertise is needed outside?

If the Chief is standing next to me inside who the hell is outside minding the store i dont need him holding my hand, and if that is case one of us is in the wrong position.

as far as the top chief being inside showing his knowledge, how are his asst chiefs or for that matter company officers ever going to lead when the boss is up his a$$ micromanaging the fire

yes hopefully he still is a firefighter, and he should lead by example all the time including being the boss at an incident

[IzzyEng4 427]

i am missing something here, why elect the guy chief if you need his expertise as a nozzleman, yeah he is a firefighter and hopefully still able to do the job, but isn't the whole purpose of having a chief to lead the fireground not be knee deep in the middle of it and as far as a chief fighting a fire goes great, see it all the time, ONLY AFTER THE COMMAND POST IS FILLED BY A CHIEF,

Why do we elect chiefs, captains, and lieutenants who are excellent truckies or nozzlemen? Experience.

and IF the chiefs expertise is needed outside?

If the Chief is standing next to me inside who the hell is outside minding the store i don't need him holding my hand, and if that is case one of us is in the wrong position.

What about a competent Asst. Chief, captain or Lieutenant running the show? I ran multiple alarms as the IC as a Captain or as Lieutenant with or without any rank of chiefs on scene or even better when the chief was the interior commander and I had a Lieutenant as my operations officer. Same difference? Besides if a chief (any rank) is inside, he should be a commander like a captain or a lieutenant first and foremost obviously also to in a strapped department as long as "someone is minding the store" he / she can be used as manpower.

as far as the top chief being inside showing his knowledge, how are his asst chiefs or for that matter company officers ever going to lead when the boss is up his a$$ micromanaging the fire

Micro managing happens more on the outside than on the inside. If a chief is utilized on the inside, just like anyone else, he should be assigned a specific duty what ever it may be and stick to it. If you micromanaging, then the department does not utilize the ICS properly, if that's the case.

Don't think into this too hard, think outside of the box. Yes I do agree that a chief of the department should utilize his expertise outside when it is needed, as long as it is needed. But on the same token if he is not needed there and his / her person is needed for lending a hand or a more pressing issue, then the IC should give the chief an assignment. That's what I'm saying.

Better yet, let the white helmets stay home and let the capts and lieuts run the show <joking>

Edited November 14, 2006 by IzzyEng4