Off shoot from the Underwear thread

[STAT213 332]

I saw something in the post about underwear that I would like to ask the folks here about. Given the chance, I would gladly ditch my brand new issued full turnouts for a Chicago style coat and 3/4 boots. Does anyone else out there think we are fooling ourselves with the envelope we are wearing these days? There are two departments that I can think of that allow either long coats and 3/4 boots or just a bunker coat.

I know its preached as gospel that we need these new high tech suits, but where do we get that information? What if we are setting ourselves up for worse problems by getting overheated and deeper and deeper into fires that we should. Granted, we may be able to put out a few fires sooner, but we are also putting ourselves into more dangerous situations. I would really be curious to know the stats on Chicago and Boston LOD injuries from the gear they wear.

Thoughts??

[Scottyk107 9]

what departments still allow the 3/4 boots i know boston is one of them

[res6cue 67]

I've always had mixed feelings on the issue. Having been brought up on 3/4 boots and long coats before hoods were popular, I definitely know we push further and further into fires with all the encapsulation today's gear gives us. On the other hand, if you get caught up in a bad situation, it'll likely protect you better.

My dept actually keeps a few sets of 3/4 boots, long coats and helmets on each truck. The general policy is that it's there only as backup gear for guys arriving at a scene or their non-primary firehouse without their personal gear. Everyone is strongly encouraged not to wear it in place of their issued turnouts, and if someone were to make a habit out of not wearing their own gear (especially for structure fires) they'd probably earn an invitation to the Chief's office for a sitdown.

[STAT213 332]

Chicago is the other city I can think of.

Anbody else know of others?

RA

[IzzyEng4 427]

There was a discussion in the threads about this before. Boston actually did a study on turnout gear during the 90's and proved the differences about turnouts and that all of them give you the adequate protection needed. Let me find the thread and also there was a link to the article. I like turnouts for going into a structure bu troof work I rather go with the 3/4 boots and long coat, but our department doesn't allow it.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I found the PDF of the study. Here is the link. It's a long but good read and proves what we all have been saying all along and how to safelty use any style of turnout gear.

http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/pdf/efop/tr_02dm.pdf

[x134 46]

In 1994 F.D.N.Y. changed there Firefighting protective uniform from traditional full length coat and 3/4 boots to full bunker gear. A study was done by Bureau of Health Services Brooklyn N.Y. , Pulmonary Division at Montefiore medical center Bronx N.Y. , and the Department of Medicine Staten Island University Hospital Staten Island N.Y. They found that lower extremity burns decreased by 85% in 2 years. Upper extremity burns and head burns decreased by 65% and 40% respectivly. Heat exaustion and inhalation injuries and cardiac events also decreased. Do I like restrictive gear?No. But I think we are better off with full protection if we get our selves into a bad situation and we have as much going for us as possible.

Edited October 28, 2006 by drobison82

[DCurtis 1]

Not that I have ever had the pleasure of wearing a full length coat or 3/4 boots, I am still relatively new to this, but I like the thought of being fully covered, does it make me a daredevil and get to close? No, if you have a sound mind and make calculated risks, your safety will increase. Plus even with the full bunker gear styles, they are constantly coming out with lighter stronger fabrics and creating gear with a greater ease and range of mobility. Who knows, maybe in the future it will be like wearing a wind breaker, who knows? but until that time . . . .

[houlidsa 76]

Sorry guys but Chicago is phasing in full bunkers. The Chicago, Ill. Fire Department (CFD) awarded a $10 million TotalCare® contract for the supply and maintenance of firefighter protective clothing and equipment to Dayton, Ohio-based Lion Apparel. The contract will begin with an initial order of 4700 turnout coats and 9400 turnout pants and is expected to run through 2008.

[ny10570 745]

The biggest reason we should all be advocating bunkers over 3/4's is those worst case senarios. For once this isn't about the once in a thousand year incidents, but the bad sh!t that happens every yeaar. I think everyone has seen the phoneix FF who when trying escape a deteriorating roof stepped over the peek and fell right through. He climbed back out and escaped with minor burns. There's the FF that was discussed so heavily on here that was enveloped in a fireball when he opend the door on a grain processing facility. We also have the half dozen ff's who went through the floor in the Bronx back in August. How many would have made it without the increased protection? On you're average fire maybe a rubber coat, canvas pants, work boots and you face in the floor might work. When the room flashes, you lose the hallway, or your water supply fails, you're gonna want the full protection of bunker gear.

Edited October 28, 2006 by ny10570

[IzzyEng4 427]

When the room flashes, you lose the hallway, or your water supply fails, you're gonna want the full protection of bunker gear.

←

If a room flashes, your gear is not going to fully protect you. This is a misconception. yes it will protect you as long as it can. With that tremendous heat, even the newest turnout gear will break down. Also with being full encaspulated, you are sweating and that high heat will make your sweat steam and burn you that way (a first degree bun is still a burn and will continue to burn). A lot of people think they can get out of a flashover alright. Just remember what a flashover is, everything in the room ignites when it reaches it ignition temperature. I have yet to see a full set of turnout gear, what ever the style or make up of it is, fully protect a firefighter and have him / her escape without any injuries.

Yes full bunkers will give you added and extremly more protection and help save you're ###in the early stages from a flash as long as you can get out. If you are caught in a flash and can't get out, your bunkers will not protect you. All gear fails at some point.

Bunkers obviously give you the best protection around, unarguable. But you can't use the example of a flashover because that is a whole different beast.

[RWC130 594]

I've spoke to some senior firefighters both career and volunteer who were against hoods when they first came out because as stated "you knew the fire was too hot when your ears would burn and you backed out"

I think they have a point however I am all for SAFETY!

Let's be honest here all the boring OSHA videos many of us dread or fall asleep thru guess what? IT'S ALL ABOUT SAFETY!!!

Maybe we should wake up and watch them.

As mentioned above the Firefighter who fell down into the foam blanket

survived because of FULL PPE. The stories go on and on and on.....

Remember the Firefighter climbing up the Ladder carrying the Axe?

Helmet and Bunker Pants only. He cut corners. What happened to him?

BURNED VERY BAD!

Anyone on EMTBravo been burned before? Maybe they can describe how

much fun it was. NOT!

"Tradition, Unhampered by Progress."

[ny10570 745]

Bunkers obviously give you the best protection around, unarguable.  But you can't use the example of a flashover because that is a whole different beast.

←

Thats my point. Nothing, not even an aluminized heat suite will protect you from everything. But the full encapsulation that bunkers provide will get you alot further than 3/4's and full length coats. Flashover is the perfect example because thats where the difference is absolute. In any other situation depending on how bad it is you cna survive without bunkers. If you flashover without bunkes you will not survive. In bunkers right next to the exit you've got a chance.