Village employees not allowed to ride calls while working

[Guest DADAY]

Recently 2 village/town of ****** employee's, (no names), were told by the village manager that effective july 31, 2004 they are no longer to ride calls while working in thier official capacity.

Why would a town that run 875 calls a year, not including the numerous time mutual aid was called, stop an EMT and a Driver from providing an essential public service to the village and it residents?

Not to mention that fact that sometimes it is hard for other members to devot thier day times to EMS. Many of them work and alot of those who work are out of town.

What is it that they are trying to do? Make more money?, or perhaps make it so someone suffers?

To the village i say this; The only people that will suffer will be the people of this town, not the employee's.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Not to stir the pot, but to look at it from a management perspective. The town/village in question, is actually looking out for themselves and the taxpayers in a way. There is a fine line of what would occur if a employee of a municipality were to get injured while on the clock for them while performing something outside of their job description. I know some persons don't like that whole outlook on things like that. But it is a fact, and workers comp/disability is always a complicated concept that can mean the difference between feeding your family while injured, or claiming bankruptcy because you can't afford to live a extended period of time on comp. And in the municipality's concern, disability is not by any means, cheap to contribute to. They are there to perform a function for the municipality, if you can't cover calls because a DPW worker or Water Dept employee can't leave his job to cover it, perhaps you have a problem that needs to hire dedicated people to provide (not help, help is a simplistic term, we provide a service) the service that apparantly isn't being given.

[Guest DADAY]

Right, but when on an EMS call or a fire, it is knowing that you will be covered by that dept, and help is on its way. I speak from experience, i was hurt.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Yes, until that one person wants to buck all that and claim disability for the job function that they are getting paid for. Your true job disability will pay more then what you would get from being injured during your duties as a volunteer emergency services provider.

I do have to ask because I just noticed it more:

How would they make money by making 2 employees stop leaving their occupations to cover ambulance calls?

Also, and again I'm not critiscizing the un-named dept in question, but say this as an overall comment in my opinions on the overall EMS system. If the public will suffer because 2 people can no longer run calls because they are required to stay at their occupations, then that system has bigger problems then just that. Perhaps, agencies whom are in that predictament need to evaluate their system and how if it is providing effective service.

[STAT213 332]

Maybe episodes like this will force people to realize that the days of the volunteer are numbered and it is time to PAY staff to cover calls, and not sit and wait and wonder. Empty Fire Stations and EMS stations serve No One.

Creative solutions to the staffing problem are all well and good, but as ALS FireFighter said, this is a symptom of the overall problem in the entire system.

[BFD1054 1,552]

You all make good points, this can be a real hot/interesting topic. Yes, there are plenty of departments, both fire & ems, all over the country that have staffing issues. But lets try to refrain from bashing volunteers, because us volunteers truly care about the service we provide and we pride in our dedication! Yes, sometimes it is frustrating when you don't get a whole lot of guys out for a daytime run, but you deal with it. If its a working fire, chances are you're getting mutual aid. In Buchanan, we have a tri-village response plan along with Montrose & Verplanck. It is similar to the plan that Fairview, Greenville & Hartsdale have. If one of us gets a possible or confirmed fire, or a greater alarm, the other 2 remaining depts go on stand-by. This works great because you know that the other houses are manned, so if you need an engine, you call for one, you need a truck, you call for one and so on. You may only have 10-15 of your own guys, then maybe 5-10 from the m/a company, but it usually will suffice.

I don't know, i agree with the comments made, there are problems, but unfortunately, everyones got them. But lets not criticize the vollies, because at least we are willing to go the extra mile to serve our community. We can't be there 100% of the time, but most of us try our damndest! There are some communities that just don't have the call volume to "hire dedicated people." Some communities will just have to deal with having dedicated volunteers for now.

As far as the real post goes....I happen to work for the Village in which i volunteer in. Do i get mad when i miss an alarm when i am at work, sometimes, but i have a job that i must be dedicated to. Do some of our guys respond while on the job? Yes, sometimes they do, depending on the call. Work is work and volunteering is separate. Would i love to do both...yes, but we can't have our cake and eat it to!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

BFD, who's bashing or criticizing vollies?

All the comments made were based on the comments about people suffering because 2 individuals aren't allowed to run calls during the day. If you could run the fire service on heart and pride then volunteer departments would win hands down, but at some point, if your saying your not covering calls, and something tells me that 2 people aren't covering every single call, then that's a system/agency problem. Has nothing to do with the individual volunteer. Also in regards to the mutual aid issue. What ever happened to interoperability. If you have to rely on constant mutual aid, and this goes to career and volunteer agencies, you have a problem! You know what is going to change opinions about all this tri this, dual that type auto mutual aid, is when of those districts, towns, cities, or villages, has to buy the other a fire apparatus that is damaged or contaminated by chemicals. Anyone remember how Lodi, NJ had a major financial problem, after several neighboring departments apparatus were condemned after being contaminated at a chemical fire? How bout a terrorist attack, or another natural disaster that occurs suddenly at 10 am on Tuesday. Every department for themselves. But fixing your manning issues by simply calling mutual aid everytime is band aid on an arterial bleed, sooner or later it gets you.

[BFD1054 1,552]

ALS, you know me and i'm sorry if i came off as lashing back. I just took some comments as offensively thats all. I felt as if some comments were negative toward volunteer departments & staffing issues. I have no problem with carrer departments at all, believe me. Its just that some smaller communities don't run the call volume to warrant a career department. Comments such as "the days of the volunteer are numbered and it is time to PAY staff to cover calls," p***ed me off a bit, but i can brush it off. Like i said ALS, don't mean to lash back, perhaps i just misunderstood some comments. But as i said, you and STAT made some real valid points, which i agree with. I just got a vibe from comments made that certain people felt as though the volunteers are useless and fail to properly protect their districts. Again, i apologize if i was wrong, didn't mean any disrespect or whatever.

[x635 4,066]

There are several agencies, and my comments are directed from an EMS perspective, that rely on a core group of volunteers. In fact, I know several agenciesin the Metro area that rely almost completly on the local highway department for daytime coverage.

Although it would be a very positive gesture if the village in question would let these two employees respond, considering the said village probaly doesnt pay anything for EMS, there is a job that needs to get done from the Village's side. If two employees are getting paid to do this job, and the EMS calls are taking them away from that on a regular basis, or making other members NOT respond, then there is an issue. (Please note that in MCI situations, the employees should without a doubt be released)

As I have said in other threads, muncipalities pay for parking enforcment officers, sanitation removal engineers, heavy equipment operators, etc to cover tasks in the village that need to get done. It's the 21st century, and EMS is a professional and neccesary service. Do you want to wait for an ambulance for 20 minutes or more if you are sick, in pain, or injured? Unfortunetly "creative" staffing solutions only construct a barrier to more permenent and effective solutions. If we cover up problems for pride or other reasons, we are doing nothing to help those you are there to serve. As we all know, politicians are reactive. For crying out loud, how come we can pay people to mow the park lawns, man the skate park, and guarentee garbage collection and parking tickets, yet we cant guarantee an ambulance or pay to get one there if needed?

Fire service volunteering is a COMPLETLY separate animal from EMS volunteering. They are two vastly different issues, and solutions that work for an FD will not neccarily work for a EMS agency.

It sounds harsh, and nobody WANTS to hire daytime or whenever needed crews, but the fact is, it is becoming commonplace for VACs, look at Rockland County (We won't get into the issue that it "kills the volunteer sprit", because that should be a non-issue if you have the people in mind). Even if you need to, establsih an agreement with the local commercial or not-for-profit ambulance sevice. It all comes down to doing what will be best for the community you serve....and the people that are depending on you to get there...quickly.

[Guest]

One would assume that these two employees were hired for a specific purpose.

I think the problem lies in the amount of calls these employees respond too, not that they are responding. One or two times a week may be OK, but when the signifcant portion of the day is spent comitted to the ambulance runs, then who's ripping off who?

I do not think they are trying to make the employees suffer, rather get them to do their jobs that they were hired to do. This is an issue that should be addressed by the VAC, not the village.

[Guest DADAY]

These 2 employees are only on an average of 90 calls a year, is that alot? To some yes, others that need the help no.

No one said that they trun away other members when the are there. The fact is sometimes they (village employees) are not needed so the jump off.

The place in question does not pay these 2 alot, 32,000 a year.

When the village makes on meters alone, 40,000 a month. not to mention the revenue from tickets and permits.

No one asked to have these 2 stop when other politicans were in office, it seems like there is a polictical venedta on the VAC.

[Medic137 6]

Wasn't it just a few years ago that this village hired EMTs as parking enforcement officers specifically so that they could cover the daytime EMS calls?

[Guest DADAY]

Not sure if its the same village

[Guest DADAY]

After some controvery the village is supposedly allowing the 2 to ride when needed, if no crew responds.

[mikerabbit 2]

How does this corps run are they paged out or dispatched. I dont really understand how you can have two paid people respond when no crew is availble...this will just lead to an extra extended arrival time.

Mike

[Guest DADAY]

They are dispatched by the police, and i agree, the responstime will be horrible

[mikerabbit 2]

Just on a side note..because I have seen this before. Using DPW workers to respond to aided cases can also have its negative affects on the patient. Would you want a DPW worker who was in the middle of weedwacking or paving a road to drop everything and be in the back of an ambulance with say a asthmatic ...the fumes of the asphalt or all of the debris from the grass weeds etc. on there clothes will only worsen the situation.

Mike

[Guest DADAY]

The 2 in question are parking enforcement. So no risk.

[WAS967 97]

But in other areas I know of, DPW workers cover a significant amount of the call volume during the day. Elmsford and North Salem come to mind. Heck, in Elmsford, the fire department is dispatched on the DPW channel! :-k