Parades or Fires - which is more important?

[Guest]

That time of the year is here again. Parade season. I know for many of us, we love to go and see our friends and colleagues marching and check out the shiny rigs. But what about coverage back home?

Recently, I can think of several incidents where Departments were attending parades, and left the homefront unprotected.

Montrose Parade - ****** FD had some kind of call and sent units back to cover - why?

Mount Kisco Parade - ****** had a fire they couldn't cover, so 1 and 1 were sent in mutual aid.

What about those departments that struggle all the time to cover alarms, but can get 30 - 40 people to march in a parade? I saw a large crowd from ******, ****** and ******at recent parades - where are these guys when the plectron goes off?

WHY DOES EVERYONE FEEL IT IS IMPERATIVE TO CALL ON 46.26 THAT THEY ARE GOING TO A PARADE? WHO CARES?!

And one last thing - how can we justify purchasing these expensive rigs that are "neccessary" to our day to day operations, but take them out of town for several hours at a time for parades? Come on!!!

I've been around this service over 20 years, and if we all don't start getting our priorities straight, we won't be here 20 years down the road.

The department I was once affiliated with was just as bad - and that was one reason I packed it in.

[TRUCK6018 50]

  I saw a large crowd from ******, ****** and ****** at recent parades - where are these guys when the plectron goes off?

I can't speak for the others but in Somers we have over 125 personel on the active roles and we rarely get more than 30 or 40 at a parade. Additionally, if there's anything much more than a minor alarm, we bail out of the parade.

WHY DOES EVERYONE FEEL IT IS IMPERATIVE TO CALL ON 46.26 THAT THEY ARE GOING TO A PARADE?  WHO CARES?!

That's a darn good question! Who does care? It's expecially pathetic when a vehicle has to sign out for any non-emergency function and the dispatch is in the same building. What happened to the telephone? With all the traffic on 46.260, it's rare that non-emergency traffic needs to be on the air.

And one last thing - how can we justify purchasing these expensive rigs that are "neccessary" to our day to day operations, but take them out of town for several hours at a time for parades?  Come on!!!

Again, can't speak for the others. We have currently have 6 engines (we're down one), by the end of the year we'll have 7. We can afford to take one out for a parade. If there is a job the engine will respond. Our specialty equiptment (ladder, tanker) only go to local parades. Needless to say, you won't be seeing them Verplanck. All we'll send there is Engine 181 and maybe Engine 182.

[RES20CUE 40]

What about those departments that struggle all the time to cover alarms, but can get 30 - 40 people to march in a parade? I saw a large crowd from ******,******and ****** at recent parades - where are these guys when the plectron goes off?

I don't know which parade that you saw a "large crowd" from ****** at.

The only parades that Somers puts up a "decent-sized crowd" is Katonah, Yorktown and Mahopac, and that's less than 25, as TRUCK 6018 said.

In case you don't know your geography- All those border Somers, and we can respond from the parade. As a matter of fact, both last year and this year Somers responded to calls from the Yorktown Parade.

Last year, Somers responded from the Yorktown parade to a Mutual Aid fire in Katonah.

My head is not in a cloud all the time, we send our share of our 1000 EMS calls mutual aid, but I'm not to sure that Somers "struggles all the time to cover alarms"!!!

[Guest DADAY]

Not for nothing, many of these 30 or 40 guys who go to these pardes are older and have done thier time crawling through the mudd. many times memebers stay back and man the town.

it would appear to me that chrome dome may not like parades, and thats his opinon.

As any firefighter who takes pride in being a volunteer, parades are a time of pride, where the public cheers you on and it feels good, and its great public relations as well.

[chris498 31]

I have to agree with my friend Mr. Daday about the amount of pride that is involved with parades..... its one of the times I realize as a volunteer how appreciated we are by the communities we serve.

Typically we too have people who do not go to the parade who are still in town, who can still respond....... It would be nice to have 30 or 40 people respond to each call, but lets face it.... do you really need 30 or 40 people at a PIAA or a car fire? Besides a parade is a planned event that people are aware of for typically months in advance....... fire and emergencies are not, and therefore you need to make due with the resources you have at that moment (I'm not talking about alarms that occur during parades, rather a remark that was made about "where all of those 30 to 40 people are when the alarm goes off".)

Additionally we always have rigs that stay in town while we are at a parade, and when we do go to a parade, many people opt to return once we have finished marching..... while some others will decide to stay for trophies.

I'm not trying to say that parades are more important. I think we all can agree that we are here to do a job to protect those in our communities and their property. Perhaps keeping a stand-by crew in town and at the firehouse while we are at parades is the best option.

[Guest DADAY]

Thanks muscles, im not saying that being at parades is more important, its just g pride thing

[BFD1054 1,552]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and everyone has made some good points in this post. I have to admit, i was never a big fan of parades. My feelings were that i joined the FD to help my community & train to respond to alarms, not shine up a truck and march down the street. But now, as i have more time in the fd, i realize that parades aren't so bad. Its a time for different depts. to come out, look their best and show off their apparatus. Its also a great opportunity to have a good time and hang out with friends from other depts. that you don't get to see all the time. But as chris498 said, its one of the few times we get to see how appreciated we are, and thats a great feeling! Chrome Dome, i used to feel the same way. I would go to parades and say "where the hell are these guys at 3am when we have an alarm?" But now i realize that many of the guys that come out for parades are the "ol-timers" who have "crawled in the mud" for years and have put in their fair share. Also, in Buchanan, a lot of our guys who march are "Associate" members, so they can't respond to calls or fight fires anyway. I can't remember any specific time where a parade hampered our response. For us at least, on any major alarm, we're getting the tri-village response with Montrose & Verplanck, so we'll get enough guys and equipment. Chrome Dome, i can understand where you're coming from, but i haven't personally experienced a problem with parades and responses. As far as the Montrose parade, i believe i know the dept. you're referring to. That dept. has 5 companies within the entire dept. and not all of them were involved in the parade (i don't believe). Therefore, the units that left Montrose to respond were not 1st-due units. There were apparatus, and i'm sure manpower, back in that district to cover.

I also agree that having manpower stay back or having another dept. cover is the best bet. I know a lot of guys would say "well, 20 guys showed up for the parade and if we leave 10 back and use 2 or 3 to drive, that doesn't leave many to mach." That is when i would get upset, because some people are more concerned with parades and how we look and how many guys we have marching and if we're going to win a trophy. No matter what, our main goal is to protect our communites that we serve, but some people tend to forget that during parade season. What good would our department be to the community if half the members and half the apparatus were accross the county and there was a fire? As far as using other depts. to cover while we're out, that becomes difficult. In most cases, if we are invited to a parade, chances are that our neighboring departments were invited as well.

I'm sorry for rambling on, but just wanted to share my thought in regards to this post. Everyone had valid opinions and thoughts, but we all have to remember that parades are not our main priority!

[mstrang1 213]

Chrome Dome- 100% right! The comments some people made about never having a major call during a parade may be true... but it may not always be true. At some point in the future, there will be a large scale incident, and half the manpower, including all the officers, and half the apparatus, will be tied up across the county. Or in Lake George. Or in Lake Placid. Or wherever the HVVFA Convention and Parade is that year.

It also bothers me that "drill night" often consists of cleaning the apparatus in preparation of a parade. The term "drill night" implies just that. A DRILL. Washing and waxing, in my mind, does not constitute a DRILL. It is a sad state of affairs when more time is dedicated to cleaning than training. If the Department was well trained, and competent in all areas of firefighting, rescue, etc, then time can be devoted to cleaning. But when members do not know how to hit a hydrant, but they sure as hell know how to hit the wax, then that is unacceptable.

[hudson144 150]

heres what really ******* me off, all units calls out of service for a parade. half way through the parade an alarm is tranmitted . The rigs in the parade have guys jump on and go into the response mode along with a couple of chiefs cars.does anyone see a problem here? How about the line of march being overcrowded with kids and others waiting to view the parade, kids who are tough enough to control during the parade are now curious to see whats going on with all the noise coming towards them, the emergency vehicle responding to the incident in a cautious mode. the driver is alert and trying to keep his eye out for that one child who is not supervised,bingo! get my point,a disaster has struck.WHEN A RIG IS CALLED OUT OF SERVICE DURING A PARADE THEN REMAIN OUT OF SERVICE! RESPONDING DOWN A PARADE ROUTE IS AN ACCIDENT WAITING TO HAPPEN. I realize that if the dept that is the host of the parade then they have to respond.if they can use an alternate route then do so. for those of you that are in the parades and are getting off blowing the sirens and air horns,believe me the public is not impressed at all. I have seen kids and even older people holding their ears and looking at you like you are some kind of a nut. I realize that during the judged parades not many depts blow the sirens or horns. How professional! then the other non- judged parades- sirens and air horns wailing like crazy. not professional! have fun and remember that you want to make a lasting impression,and a good one! be safe!

[Grumpy 1]

Good points Hudson 144, Especially about rigs called O/S for a parade staying O/S. Chiefs should have coverage plans that avoid calling parade rigs in all but worst case incidents.

[Remember585 815]

A lot of good points.

I personally think that anytime you leave your own district to attend a parade, funeral or whatever, you should not be in service to answer alarms of minor nature. For example, my FD was at a recent parade, and due to a mishap either on the PD or our Chiefs, they left my engine in service - and never told me or my crew! We had to run about a 1/4 mile to the rig, drive through the crowd, report to the firehouse to get GEAR, then go to the scene! It was unneccessary, and we shouldn't have been assigned to this run. Whats worse, everyone and their brother was watching us go through two towns - for what turned out to be nothing! PREPLANNING - there's that damn word again - needs to be done! If you take apparatus out of town, take them out of service, and come up with a coverage plan! Like Hudson said, its only a matter of time before a stupid move like this causes an innocent bystander an injury or worse.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Great point Hudson. Kind of makes me as irritated as sitting in a call audit, listening to a agency getting toned out for an ems call and not a single person getting up to answer it. And then having their pagers going off 4 times in the middle of it. Meanwhile, the neighboring agency who has a ambulance staffed has to leave to cover their call, all the while the call audit is in a hospital in the original agencies district.

And not to be a sore sport, but the only thing I loathe more then what hudson mentioned, is watching people run through a crowd to get to their trucks for a AFA, especially when pooring out of a beer pit.

[x635 4,066]

The first word I thought of when I read this thread is "competition".

Becuase that's what a parade is. A competition. Who's trucks are shinier and who can march better then who. It's fun, but is that really important? Don't get me wrong,those that know me, being the HUGE apparatus buff that I am, know that I love parades. And there's nothing wrong with them until departments become "Parade Departments", and disregard their main purpose. Parades do give us a chance to interact in a more social manner with those from other departments, as well as they are a great community relations tool.

However, It's now the 21st century here in Westchester........How come we don't have skill competions or competitive drills???? Why don't we take the same pride we take in going to parades and winning tropies that we take in progressing our skills and equipment? How come I don't hear "We just took BlahBling class and we can now do blahblah", but I hear "We went to SoandSo Parade and cleaned up in tropies!!"........HOW IS THAT IMPORTANT TO SERVING THE HUMAN BEINGS YOU ARE PROTECTING????? The time spent at parades could be spent training your entire department as EMT's, or Hazmat Techs, etc.

Another little thing of mine that seems to be a favorite pastime.......I don't want to sound like a prude.......but the consumption of alcholic beverages at a parade (both before and after) while in department uniform and near department appartus..even going into taverns with uniforms on...I wondered how that looks to the public? I mean, I think they probaly understand that firefighters like to have a good time, but again we stand on a line between old time volunteering and 21st century prrofessionlism.

[Guest SQUADco119]

couldnt agree 585 anymore, once your out of town your out of service, to an extent thiers exceptions and reasons for everything. Like 585 said about that recent icident leaving the parade someone made a mistake wether it was pd dispatch or the chief or both. Our engine was dispatched even though we had other manpower and apparatus in the district. But we heard our engine co and the chief told us to respond so like any other fireman you listen to the chief and ofcourse well take a call over a parade anyday. Sorry for rambling on about something that was answered already but you know you have to defend your department which we did but at the same pointed out and realized that it wasnt so smart what took place, you live and learn, hopefully this and other things that take place that really dont make much sense a pointed pointed out and taken care of.Thats why i love this website, not only do you have fun you learn alot.

[EX2354 0]

Bottom line FIRES enough said

[Guest]

"Parade Departments", .

Another little thing of mine that seems to be a favorite pastime.......I don't want to sound like a prude.......but the consumption of alcholic beverages at a parade (both before and after) while in department uniform and near department appartus..even going into taverns with uniforms on...I wondered how that looks to the public? I mean, I think they probaly understand that firefighters like to have a good time, but again we stand on a line between old time volunteering and 21st century prrofessionlism.

Thats what I've been saying for years- and someone always says but the driver isn't drinking, Well what abount the rest of the crew!Then they respond and expect to work at the scene and they all had too much to Drink- well it is time for things to change- It won't change untill someone gets Killed or they kill someone- and then the lawyers take over. [-X

[LCFD968 10]

Are you trying to say we have been lucky for the last hundred years? My opinion is most are professional and out of the thousand that show up to march in parades only a few stay late for trophies. Don't get me wrong, there are a few incidents but for the most part for the 20 parades or so in our area and the thousands of marchers AND THOUSANDS OF SPECTATORS THAT SUPPORT US EVERY YEAR, YEAR IN YEAR OUT, SAYS IT ALL. I am proud of all we do as Fire and EMS personal on the fire ground and in the parades.

To all that support parades and work there tails off and train there hearts out to earn the right to march down the road proudly, GOOD JOB!!!

[Guest]

Parades are all about pride - you can't say either is more important. You put yourself out there so your community can see who it is that is giving their time to help them. If you have pride in your department you understand the meaning of marching. Of course winning Best Overall instills more pride each time. Those that don't march don't understand the pride.

As for calls in your district when your department is at a parade - as stated above by a few people, many of the marchers are old-timers - many of them are the most active people. The 30-40 people that show up to parades are not the only people in the department. No one has a priblem calling for mutual aid during the day when the sh*t hits the fan - you CAN rely on mutual aid for incidents in your districts. Not all departments march in parades.

Mutual aid is there for a reason, why not use it!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Mutual aid is there for a reason, why not use it!

The purpose of mutual aid is not to bail out another department when they're out of service at a parade.

This justification is as bad as career departments relying on mutual aid on first alarm assignments due to understaffing.

Some members do take pride in marching and showing off their department, no doubt. However, I don't think anyone here can deny that there is the share that go to parades for no reason other than the freebies involved.

Are you trying to say we have been lucky for the last hundred years? My opinion is most are professional and out of the thousand that show up to march in parades only a few stay late for trophies.

I don't think all have been so lucky. I know specific circumstances when departments have not responded to stucture fires after social functions. To make matters worse, there was no pre-arranged coverage.

While parades are a matter of pride, pride is not an excuse when someone's house burns up as a result.

[Guest]

I totally agree that people go to parades for the freebies - we actually have a member that goes to parades, doesn't march, but takes advantage of the freebies...

no names

[MPACE2-299 0]

There are also departments who’s main priority are parades, where members get yelled at by other members for not going to the parade when they are staying back to cover the calls. I hate to see the day when somebody loses their house or even their lives when a department is at a parade and can't cover the call. I’m sure they will love the excuse “We were at a parade”. The people of the town trust in you to protect them. They don’t really care if you march the straightest 6 towns away. Also valuable drill time is lost for parades and parade prep. Don’t get me wrong there are many departments that take a parade into consideration. They have a crew stand by at their fire house during the parade, set up for a dual dispatch while they are away and don’t take vital apparatus out of district such as rescues.

[Guest DADAY]

And is some departments, parades are everything, they even let you get a uniform if your not a memeber for $5. Not naming any.

Also some departments fine you if you dont show up to parades and parade clean ups.

Lets talk about taking it to far. I love parades don't get me wrong, but some places go to far.