Sutphen 70+ tower

[tonythefireman 0]

We are a small combination department on Cape Cod, we are shopping for a new truck to replace a Maxim straight stick 85ft quint, I know Chappaqua has a Sutphen quint 70+ tower, does any other depts around have one?.....I am interested in any info....we definately cannot afford a 100ft TL.....althought it would be nice......I saw the Sutphen 70+ at a show and it looked great!...please give me some reasons to sell it rather than a straight stick of another manufacturer?....does Chappaqua find it tall enough?.....any ideas would be very helpful...thanks...Capt T

[cas2383 22]

Georgetown FD in CT has also a short 75+ft Sutphen w/ pumps.

[res6cue 67]

Stony Point FD here in Rockland has one also. Great truck, nice and compact on a single rear axle. I've never once heard them complain about it. There are actually quite a few Sutphen towers around here and they seem to hold up well and I don't hear many complaints about them. Personally, I love having a bucket to work from, so if given a choice between a stick and a tower, I'll take the tower 9 out of 10 times.

http://www.stonypointfire.com/18-Tower.JPG

[RSM2063 2]

Chappaqua is not thrilled with the quality of Sutphen. We are spoiled by having a few pieces of Pierce apparatus. Fot the most part we are ok with the height and the few times we migh need more we can call on our neighboring depts.

[IzzyEng4 427]

We are a small combination department on Cape Cod, we are shopping for a new truck to replace a Maxim straight stick 85ft quint,  I know Chappaqua has a Sutphen quint 70+ tower, does any other depts around have one?.....I am interested in any info....we definately cannot afford a 100ft TL.....althought it would be nice......I saw the Sutphen 70+ at a show and it looked great!...please give me some reasons to sell it rather than a straight stick of another manufacturer?....does Chappaqua find it tall enough?.....any ideas would be very helpful...thanks...Capt T

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Which small dept?? L-176 or L-192? Hopefully not L176, on of the last S cab aerials around. Good luck!

[tonythefireman 0]

Which small dept??  L-176 or L-192?    Hopefully not L176, on of the last S cab aerials around.  Good luck!

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Ladder 176 is gonna go,yes it has served us well be the old girl now qualifies for antique plates.....

[x152 179]

Stamford T2 is a 1999 70' Sutphen tower (demo) that had the "bucket" removed prior to delivery in 1999. There was also a 500 gallon tank that was removed and replaced with a 300 gallon tank prior to delivery.

It is presently being replaced with a 2006 HME (see photos on main page) and its fate has been undecided.

The short ladder was not suitable for our needs, but may work well in the right community.

And as stated above, a Sutphen is far from the quality of a Pierce.

Edited October 1, 2006 by x152

[tonythefireman 0]

Stamford T2 is a 1999 70' Sutphen tower (demo) that had the "bucket" removed prior to delivery in 1999. There was also a 500 gallon tank that was removed and replaced with a 300 gallon tank prior to delivery.

It is presently being replaced with a 2006 HME (see photos on main page) and its fate has been undecided.

The short ladder was not suitable for our needs, but may work well in the right community.

And as stated above, a Sutphen is far from the quality of a Pierce.

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I agree,with a really tight budget ,as well as some tight areas around town Sutphen seems to be the right one?...as for quality our two first due pumps are KME compare those to Pierce......ya know....

[res6cue 67]

Well, no one else that I can think of even makes a platform of any kind on a short, single axle chassis except for Sutphen, much less in quint configuration. The way I see it, if you need that kind of short, single axle chassis; need a short outrigger footprint; need a pump on it; strongly desire a bucket; don't mind not having a traditional ladder for climbing; and don't mind losing about 15' of reach off what you currently have...then the Sutphen SP70 is really the only choice. If the bucket isn't a big deal, then look at some straight sticks. The only trouble there, once again, is that most of them over 75' are tandem axle. So if I had to choose between a 75' stick or a 70' platform, I'd likely take the tower. The reach isn't all that different but the bucket would sell me on it for sure. Not to mention the low overall height of the mid-mounted aerial, which might also be a concern for you.

[HFD23 37]

We are a small combination department on Cape Cod, we are shopping for a new truck to replace a Maxim straight stick 85ft quint,   I know Chappaqua has a Sutphen quint 70+ tower, does any other depts around have one?.....I am interested in any info....we definately cannot afford a 100ft TL.....althought it would be nice......I saw the Sutphen 70+ at a show and it looked great!...please give me some reasons to sell it rather than a straight stick of another manufacturer?....does Chappaqua find it tall enough?.....any ideas would be very helpful...thanks...Capt T

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is space and lenght a consideration if not look into 75Ft towers from ALF or Seagrave. With regard to Chappaqua i also heard that they were not totally happy with theirsand i know scarsdale Fd has either a 70 ft or 73 Ft sutphen that is a 1997 or 1998 and they are not happy with it either. I heard through the grape vine that both depts are not very pleased. An that there may be replacements in the works for both.

Edited October 1, 2006 by HFD23

[tonythefireman 0]

is space and lenght a consideration if not look into 75Ft towers from ALF or Seagrave. With regard to Chappaqua i also heard that they were not totally happy with theirsand i know scarsdale Fd has either a 70 ft or 73 Ft sutphen that is a 1997 or 1998 and they are not happy with it either. I heard through the grape vine that both depts are not very pleased. An that there may be replacements in the works for both.

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Hmmm makes me wonder about a couple of things?....first, is it mainly a height issue?....being an old Fox Lane High guy I was raised down there,I do know that you cant swing a dead cat without hitting a million dollar tower unit in Westchester lol, anyway if its a quality rather than reach...thats another story, again as I stated earlier that we run KME first due(and YES) we have had our problems)...anyway the old yankee in me says that there will be perhaps two used vehicles soon?.....anyway, I am very pleased that you brothers and sisters are feeding me some insight.........Capt T

[22 Truck 6]

Well, no one else that I can think of even makes a platform of any kind on a short, single axle chassis except for Sutphen, much less in quint configuration.

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Metz does...100 ft. tower-ladder (and taller I believe) on a single axle, pump/tank, but minimal compartment space from what I've seen. Not sure on the quality or price of the Metz...res6cue, any insight on how the guys in Spring Valley like theirs? Tony, have you guys looked at Nantucket's new one?

[tonythefireman 0]

Metz does...100 ft. tower-ladder (and taller I believe) on a single axle, pump/tank, but minimal compartment space from what I've seen.  Not sure on the quality or price of the Metz...res6cue, any insight on how the guys in Spring Valley like theirs?  Tony, have you guys looked at Nantucket's new one?

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Yes, I have seen Nantuckets.....as everybody says little space to store most truck Co gear, I personally like the Metz for what it is,and it is perfect for streets laid out in the 1700s however the price is a bit steep......on that note Marthas Vinyard got the mother of all towers this year with a Bronto Skylift.....

[res6cue 67]

Metz does...100 ft. tower-ladder (and taller I believe) on a single axle, pump/tank, but minimal compartment space from what I've seen.  Not sure on the quality or price of the Metz...res6cue, any insight on how the guys in Spring Valley like theirs?  Tony, have you guys looked at Nantucket's new one?

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Man, how could I forget Metz...literally staring me right in the face!

Yes, the Metz is tremendously compact but at the expense of a ton of compartment space. More to the point, that enormous "turntable" is what kills it, but worst of all is that for the size of it, there's not even a walkway! It's nearly impossible to get off the end of the ladder without being an acrobat, and the basket is very small. As far as the Hill Hooks, I wouldn't want to comment for them, but I have heard rumblings that the honeymoon is definitely over. They have a very tight firehouse and were replacing a very small 75' ALF, and they wanted the most bang for their buck within the restrictions they had. All said and done, I don't think they did too bad. The Metz has some nice points and it's really fast to setup with a very small footprint. They're definitely not inexpensive, however.

[X615 0]

i was always under the impression sutphens were pretty good. out of curiosity what are the quality problems with them?

[res6cue 67]

I think their quality has gone downhill over the past decade or so. I've heard that firsthand from our neighboring all-Sutphen dept, that they're just not building them like they used to.

[RWC130 594]

Bring back MACK!

[antiquefirelt 994]

I can't help but point out that height is not the only consideration on choosing aerial length, especially with a tower. Setback distance is a major factor. A 3-story building's roof may be inaccessible if it is far from the street.

[JustSomeGuy 0]

70+, all I can say is get ready to use your ground ladders. IMO they are a poor quality rig, they might make the budget but I guarantee something was compromised. Get in touch with EW-FAC if you really want to learn more

[tonythefireman 0]

I can't help but point out that height is not the only consideration on choosing aerial length, especially with a tower. Setback distance is a major factor. A 3-story building's roof may be inaccessible if it is far from the street.

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I appreciate the remedial education,my orriginal post was regarding the quality of Sutphen....when I go to work the two horns on my collar suggest "this isnt my first rodeo"......Capt T

[RSM2063 2]

Most of the quality issues we have with Sutphen in Chappaqua is related to the workmanship of small items. For example compartment lights are glued not bolted in, door handels are of a lesser quality than our other apparatus, intercom to the bucket has needed repair 4 times, switches have burned out etc. They do not seem to spend a lot of time on quality assurance of the little things.

[tonythefireman 0]

Most of the quality issues we have with Sutphen in Chappaqua is related to the workmanship of small items. For example compartment lights are glued not bolted in, door handels are of a lesser quality than our other apparatus, intercom to the bucket has needed repair 4 times, switches have burned out etc. They do not seem to spend a lot of time on quality assurance of the little things.

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Thanks so much! thats pretty the stuff I am looking for.......like I said we dont spend alot on apparatus generally, our last 1st due engine from KME was a disaster! being an old New York guy at heart I grew up seeing Sutphen towers...(Like Mt Kisco)......the closest one to me I believe is in Sandwich Mass near the bridge...........in "Horrace Greeley"world you are surrounded by larger aeriel devices......whereas here on cape Cod we are unable to rely on too much help given the narrow nature of our geography...thanks again

[Guest]

Bethel CT still operates a 1977 Sutphen. It has been realy good over the years. In my 10 years I can't think of any quality issues with it. Sutphen's service is very good too. A few years ago when I damaged the bucket at a fire, we called their service department and within 48 hours, they were here mounting the new one. The service techs that they send for the annual service are very good. They have always done a good job in my opinion. We are currently finishing the specs for our new Suthpen Tower which will have our curent 85' ladder re mounted on a new truck. The ladder is in good enough condition that we can use it over and save a great deal of money.

If money is an issue but you don't want to give up the reach of your current ladder, it might be worth asking if they have any used booms that can be mounted on a new truck. They will sometimes take a truck on a trade in and re mount the ladder and the out riggers with new or reconditioned hydraulics. The construction of the boom is so good that they can be re mounted and still have lots of life in them. This would espessially be good for a dept that does not use the truck every day and has limited funds. Of course, if you get a ladder bigger than 70', you are looking at a tandem rear axle.

[sr71 1]

noroton's sutphen is a 1994 110 foot straight stick with a tandem axle and we think that its a good truck but when i go to my cousins paid dept (norwalk) there new sutphen isnt of the same quality. its gone down a bit but its still a good truck id say marion i think they make a tower ladder in your spec ranges

[Guest]

The Glenville Fire Department in CT has a Ladder that is 100 ft. Here is a pic of it.

[antiquefirelt 994]

I appreciate the remedial education,my orriginal post was regarding the quality of Sutphen....when I go to work the two horns on my collar suggest "this isnt my first rodeo"......Capt T

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No offense intended Capt, just a few of posts regarding 70 ft. and buildinging heights and no one mentioning there's more to an aerial's length than building height.

From the scuttlebut around there maybe new generation of Metz coming that addresses some of the issues we American jakes have with their trucks? While I'm not much of a Metz fan, they seem to fill a niche, of which your situation may fall within. I know we ran a Sutphen Tower as a temp truck for about a year and one thing we hated was the protrusion undert the bucket, which only one of their 100 ft. models is without. It makes it impossible to cut the roof without being on it. Also you have to be close to straight on to windows for rescue as their buckets have one center door in a flat faced bucket. We were also not impressed with the finish quality of the new Sutphens, when we were speccing our new tower last year.

[tonythefireman 0]

No offense intended Capt, just a few of posts regarding 70 ft. and buildinging heights and no one mentioning there's more to an aerial's length than building height.

From the scuttlebut around there maybe  new generation of Metz coming that addresses some of the issues we American jakes have with their trucks? While I'm not much of a Metz fan, they seem to fill a niche, of which your situation may fall within. I know we ran a Sutphen Tower as a temp truck for about a year and one thing we hated was the protrusion undert the bucket, which only one of their 100 ft. models is without. It makes it impossible to cut the roof without being on it. Also you have to be close to straight on to windows for rescue as their buckets have one center door in a flat faced bucket. We were also not impressed with the finish quality of the new Sutphens, when we were speccing our new tower last year.

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No offense taken,just my failed atempt at humor, your insight is the most valuable to date, my chief was warned at a meeting about the structure under the bucket and said we could perhaps spec it out diff?.....getting back to my orrig thought, we are a wealthy town,not alot of $$$ for our aeriel,of course the other damming factor is that our population is primarily elderly,with most all buildings under three stories it would seem a 95,100ft tower would be the idea! but of course see the line NO MONEY lol......we are trying to be creative regards a demo etc.....anyone have any ideas(or magic) thanks in advance....Capt t

[tonythefireman 0]

No offense taken,just my failed atempt at humor, your insight is the most valuable to date, my chief was warned at a meeting about the structure under the bucket and said we could perhaps spec it out diff?.....getting back to my orrig thought, we are a wealthy town,not alot of $$$ for our aeriel,of course the other damming factor is that our population is primarily elderly,with most all buildings under three stories it would seem a 95,100ft tower would be the idea! but of course see the line NO MONEY lol......we are trying to be creative regards a demo etc.....anyone have any ideas(or magic)    thanks in advance....Capt t

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Oh yeah..to comment on the metz post, I agree Metz is starting to become the "right angle drill" of fire service aeriels! by this I mean specialized applications.....the unique towns that need a the features that Metz hangs its hat on.....a ski area town bought a 4whl drive metz cause the houses are all on the hiil, it can be easliyl operated on such, also near us,Nantucket Mass whos streets were laid out in the 1700'0s with a huge wood frame fire load its great.....would be good for us too, the only drawback is the price way too much $$$$$$$$

[antiquefirelt 994]

I have a bunch of info that we used to present to our council and taxpayers regarding the benefits of a tower vs. stick. Why we needed one in the 100 ft. range vs. 75 ft. Your welcome to it, just send me your email or PM me with it.

We also put together a preformance spec package and tested all demo units for our needs on our streets. They all had to make certain corners and hills to ensure we could get it around. We measured the distance from the body of the truck to the leading edge of the bucket when it was within 6" of the ground at 90 degrees to the body. We requested wall to wall turning radius's. We measured setup time, max and mim. footprint. Over height and length were factors, as was angle of departure and "tailslap" (mid-mount). The bucket had to have a lip around the three leading sides and max. sq. footage was measured. of course it could have nothing that would prevent us from working off the lip to vent or otherwise keep weight on the bucket vs. the building. This killed the Sutphen for us as they hadn't released the new SP100 with flat bottom.

We ended up with city coucilor who headed a fundraising program that garnered $200K+ so the taxpayers were able to save a little dough. This does not come without serious skeptisism but we're taking delivery of a new tower next month, so hopefully all's well that ends well.

[tonythefireman 0]

I have a bunch of info that we used to present to our council and taxpayers regarding the benefits of a tower vs. stick. Why we needed one in the 100 ft. range vs. 75 ft. Your welcome to it, just send me your email or PM me with it.

We also put together a preformance spec package and tested all demo units for our needs on our streets. They all had to make certain corners and hills to ensure we could get it around. We measured the distance from the body of the truck to the leading edge of the bucket when it was within 6" of the ground at 90 degrees to the body. We requested wall to wall turning radius's. We measured setup time, max and mim. footprint. Over height and length were factors, as was angle of departure and "tailslap" (mid-mount). The bucket had to have a lip around the three leading sides and max. sq. footage was measured. of course it could have nothing that would prevent us from working off the lip to vent or otherwise keep weight on the bucket vs. the building. This killed the Sutphen for us as they hadn't released the new SP100 with flat bottom.

We ended up with  city coucilor who headed a fundraising program that garnered $200K+ so the taxpayers were able to save a little dough. This does not come without serious skeptisism but we're taking delivery of a new tower next month, so hopefully all's well that ends well.

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Thanks brother,sent you my dept email .......you make great sense ...heres the challenge tower fans....working budget 620,000 max gentleman sharpen your pencils.........Capt t