60-Control Changing to Plain English

[JM15 386]

What does the LMNOP stand for?

[Guest]

J..."K"...L...M...N...O..P, IT WAS A JOKE EARLIER IN THE FORUM

[E58RET 24]

Having lived thru 3 changes of Ten Codes during my career I can agree with the use of plain English as a communication medium. However I believe ther should be a commonality for all Emergency Services to agree upon

[emt301 4]

Oh c'mon now, you're really trying to make the point that the only reason 10 codes exist is so we can sound "buffy" on the radio?

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"10-75 the Box" isn't "buffy"? How about just saying we've got a working fire!!!

Edited September 29, 2006 by emt301

[res6cue 67]

"10-75 the Box" isn't "buffy"? How about just saying we've got a working fire!!!

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The only reason "10-75 the box!" is considered buffy is because of FDNY worship, that's all. Yes, I agree if the only reason depts added 10-75 was so they could sound like the city, then it's buffy, no question. However, 10-75 or any other 10 code in and of themselves are not buffy, no. I'm sure many, many decades ago when radios first came into use they used plain English. Obviously something prompted them to come up with codes and signals. Perhaps because plain English was just too wordy, perhaps when someone said "send me a bus to this location" the dispatcher sent a school bus and they wanted to do away with interpretation of plain English, or perhaps they're just a holdover from the really old days of telegraph signaling.

Whatever the case, as I said I'm not opposed to plain English, but it has to be implemented properly and terms must be standardized, otherwise we may as well just keep the oft-ambiguous 10 codes. No one is going to convince me, however, that the ONLY reason 10 codes and signals exist is for whackers who like to play back the tapes and listen to themselves. Sorry.

Edited September 29, 2006 by res6cue

[emt301 4]

No one is going to convince me, however, that the ONLY reason 10 codes and signals exist is for whackers who like to play back the tapes and listen to themselves. Sorry.

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Res6cue, I didn't mean to imply that the ONLY reason for 10 codes is "buffiness"....was just stating that in some departments they are obviously used that way at times, especially with phrases like "10-75 the BOX" and "10-4 K".

Having worked for both 60-control in the past and Dutchess 911 currently, I can honestly say from experience that plain english is much simpler to use. For instance, there were times at 60 control when 2 units from the very same department would call out 10-19 AND 10-84 for "on the scene"...kind of ridiculous...are you 10-19 or are you 10-84...pick a 10 code for your department and stay with it. There were also times when units would call out 10-19 when they were 10-17, and vice-versa. It's obvious that in some departments the radio training is severely lacking, and for that reason plain english simplifies things for both FD personnel and the dispatchers who have to communicate with them.

Edited September 29, 2006 by emt301

[Jared1979 19]

using the ten codes in my view is not to sound buffy I just feel there is no need to use plain english on the radio.

[Guest EMSCOMM80]

using the ten codes in my view is not to sound buffy I just feel there is no need to use plain english on the radio.

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Haven’t you learned ANYTHING regarding emergency communications from 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina?

Edited September 29, 2006 by EMSCOMM80

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I never realized that somebody other then me does the LMNOP routine. I love it.

The reason why some people feel that using plain english on the radio isn't necessary is because you either haven't been involved in a multi-agency incident, or operate where you are dealing with agencies from outside the county or non-fire agencies regularly. Plain english as with everything else some are trying to accomplish by utilizing the ICS is outlined in NIMS. It eliminates confusion when you deal with large multi agency incidents and so on.

Someone hit the nail on the head, the 60 control telecommunicators know the codes, its those in the field that feel that they are the only one in the county on the radio using improper codes. Very ridiculous statement. Its ok tradition people...take a deep breath, better yet get a paper bag and take deep breaths, it will be ok with time. Before you know it, speaking plain english will be a tradition and you all will be ok.

[x134 46]

"10-75 the Box" isn't "buffy"? How about just saying we've got a working fire!!!

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Well put, unfortunately tradition is hard to break in the fire service.

Edited October 1, 2006 by drobison82

[hudson144 150]

Hey Skittles,"WHAT THE HELL DID YOU JUST SAY"? LOL

[JohnnyOV 2]

We've all used 10-codes and yes, we all have messed up using them...i know I have. Down here in Florida, no 10-codes period...and it works out PERFECTLY...no codes to learn, no numbers to interchange or mess up. Its very nice to understand INSTANTLY what they are saying instead of trying to decipher it.

[DES630 10]

You can also hit the SAP button on your pager/portable to hear it in spanish...

[Skooter92 7]

¿Deseo la comprensión de las transmisiones de radio, autorización del clarificante?

This has been a demonstration of the principle that if we ALL DON'T SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE on the radio, then IT DOESN'T WORK. And yes, I'm yelling, because SOME PEOPLE don't get it.

Plain english. Use it. It saves time and lives. Oooohhh, catchy.

[FirNaTine 370]

If not every Dept. within the County is going to adapt the same 10 Codes, than plain english is just fine, especially if your either constantly giving or receiving M/A. Too this day, a 10-29 in Yonkers is a Working Fire, but a Food on the Stove for FDMV, and a 10-26 just the opposite. I can't tell you how many times YFD turned the corner on 2 wheels hearing 10-29 while on M/A in the Vern, only to find out it was nothing, and reacted in just the opposite manner when they heard a 10-26 transmitted by one of our companies, until they turned the corner to find Lucifer in the street, with our guys wondering the whole time, where the friggin cavalry was! I guess it should be expected though. We've only been providing M/A for one another for the past 36yrs. I'm sure with all the NIMS Courses being given now our Communication problems will be addressed and corrected for the Safety of all our members.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I like that scooter. Nice to see someone else yelling on here as well.

If all else fails we'll beat them into submission.

[Guest]

Wow this post has caused some contraversy!!!! Plain english is the way to go, finally this county is getting the policies put into place, sadly for a little while it is going to be a little harder on the dispatchers that have to repeat things differently than they used to.

Plain english. Use it. It saves time and lives.

Good phrase I like that Skooter

[CAM502 6]

Hudson,

Respond Code 3 to a 10-24 caused by a 10-50. Multiple 10-47's. When you're 10-84 give me a 10-30 and let me know if you need a 10-27. K.

Oh and L2 is 10-15. K.

LOL...the things we deem as important.

[CFD320 35]

Why 60 control and not KED-281?

[JBE 328]

(quote)I dont think that is a good idea for 60 control to go that route, my reason is this there is no need to use plain english on the radio if there is too much confusion with the codes then there is a need to train the disptachers on codes mean what again I still think this a bad idea besides the ten codes sound more professional than plain english.(quote)

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?!?!?! If nobody is on the same page, with the ten codes, you can't necessarily use them. I think we've been down this road before. Numbah too, the dispatchers out there, be they FDNY, 60 Control, P-911, have better radio discipline and training than most folks out in the field. Why not take a ride to your dispatch office and see how good they really are.

[10-8 0]

Guys -

I think they went the wrong direction with this.

What the government should have done was to see what are the most common

10 codes amongst nationwide departments. And set a standard and establish a 10 code list that all fire departments will use.

Let's face it we all use a quite a bit of the same codes and it wouldn't be that difficult to train everyone on the new or revised codes. If this is about being NIMS compliant then when a department responds to mutual aid in an area well outside there own the language will be even harder to understand along with double and triple transmissions trying to figure out what they hell "FARMER BROWN" is talking about.

For you guys who have members on you job who like to talk you can vouch for the fact that now they will never shut up and this can be very dangerous in a real situation.

And you can picture some of the departments in our area, (not to mention any names) getting a call at 4am for a smoke condition in the area of.....heres what you will probably hear..........

speaking like.. yeah ingen ** is on scene checkin' it out yo!

"60 control reply- On scene at 0400"

ingen ** to 60 trol yeah we gots a lot o fire cummin out some wind hoes and it's freakin' hot betta git sum mo rigs here quickly ya no wut I mean!

"60 control reply- Can you repeat that"

I think 10-84 investigating and 10-75 a lot clearer and to the point

[Ging599 13]

Eddie ... when are you working again so I can give you a "K" or 2.

Using plain English is so much better, especially since there was never a code for "the leaky crapper set off the fire alarm in the apartment below".

After all, a proper size up and scene summary is most important.

My last dept. had almost 70 codes so plain English is so much easier to use. Once we are required to use plain Spanish, then I'll have a problem.

[emt301 4]

For you guys who have members on you job who like to talk you can vouch for the fact that now they will never shut up and this can be very dangerous in a real situation.

And you can picture some of the departments in our area, (not to mention any names) getting a call at 4am for a smoke condition in the area of.....heres what you will probably hear..........

speaking like.. yeah ingen ** is on scene checkin' it out yo!

"60 control reply- On scene at 0400"

ingen ** to 60 trol yeah we gots a lot o fire cummin out some wind hoes and it's freakin' hot betta git sum mo rigs here quickly ya no wut I mean!

"60 control reply- Can you repeat that"

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I know where you're coming from with this, but it's also a bit exaggagerated...for the most part, the fire & ems agencies up here in Dutchess get messages through to the 911 center effectively using plain english, transmitting clear and "to the point" messages (there are, of course, occasional exceptions...but not enough to create much of a problem).

[JBE 328]

Recieved-LMNOP

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The gent that did that was one of the best dispatchers you guys had.

I would love to see a standardized 10-code used nationwide. I think it would take a long time to implement though.

[res6cue 67]

I would love to see a standardized 10-code used nationwide. I think it would take a long time to implement though.

That's part of the point I was trying to make. I firmly believe that had this happened ages ago, we likely wouldn't even be discussing this. I also believe that back in the day they DID intend for there to be a standard 10 code system (isn't there even an official APCO set?) but it just never stuck. First of all, between fire, police and EMS there would probably just be too many codes needed to make it realistic. Which is what started to happen, individual depts started tweaking the codes to suit their own needs, and flash forward to today's mess. Throw into that big city worship and it doesn't get any better. I mean, realistically, how many depts in our area added 10-75 so they could sound like FDNY? I'm betting more than just a handful.

As I said, I'm glad Rockland uses barely any codes at all for fire. 99% of all transmissions have always been plain English, as anyone who listens can attest to. Sure, we have a few "signals" here and there, but more often than not we use the plain English along with them anyway! As for the PD (and EMS to a lesser extent) in Rockland, they have a little more of a challenge, having to move away from all their pseudo 10 code signals that run in the 100s.

[10-8 0]

I know where you're coming from with this, but it's also a bit exaggagerated...for the most part, the fire & ems agencies up here in Dutchess get messages through to the 911 center effectively using plain english, transmitting clear and "to the point" messages (there are, of course, occasional exceptions...but not enough to create much of a problem).

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Yes a bit exaggerated but you know where I am coming from.

I guess it's just like anything else they all have pro's and con's

the question is what really will work.what might be good for dutchess might not work in rockland or in westchester or visa versa.

and in the really busier depts compared to the slower depts it will also be a lot different. I am game for what works but I do fell the 10 codes on a national standardization would be more effective.

[10-8 0]

Obviously something prompted them to come up with codes and signals. Perhaps because plain English was just too wordy, perhaps when someone said "send me a bus to this location" the dispatcher sent a school bus and they wanted to do away with interpretation of plain English, or perhaps they're just a holdover from the really old days of telegraph signaling.

RES6CUE:

you were on to something here.

The reason 10 codes were implemented into the emergency services in the 1st place was....When they first started using radios the power and quality was no where near what it is today and radio transmissions used to be very UNclear and broken up so you would have to repeat things and they still got lost.

Therefore rather than using sentances to describe incidents, they implemented a 10 code therefor our transmissions would be quick and short and it would be a lot easier to understand. Now that the radios are better they are still not perfected.

As with more and more devices using hi and lo band frequencies the communications are still lost in certain instances. Until they create a radio that is 110% reliable no matter wher you are I think they should stick to the reason 10 codes were created in the 1st place

Thay have worked for years and the only reason they don't is becuse ther are too many different versions of the codes. a 10-75 here is a 10-26 there and a 10-57 somewhere else. Correct that 1st

[Skooter92 7]

You say "po-tay-to" and I say "po-tah-to"........

But at least we're both saying it in English.

There may be some regional differences in clear text, but a difference in a ten code is absolute.

And even 10-4 is different jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

[Guest]

I am in full agreement with plain language. This eliminates confusion for anyone who works two different systems like ems with police dispatch and fire by 60 control. Also, if anyone is worried about using up too much airtime, maybe we should try using fireground channels.

[JBE 328]

R-6, just out of curiosity, since you and I have the same idea about nationally standard 10-codes. Would you consider, in this age of interoperability, standard 10-codes to be understood across the board??