WC: Should ConEd go underground?

[Guest]

September 23, 2006

For Con Ed, It May Be Time to Go Underground

By JOSEPH BERGER (personal opinion)

THE NEW YORK TIMES

At first there was something charmingly old-fashioned about it: Dad, Mom and the children gathered around, reading by candlelight and flashlight; people idling with neighbors they scarcely knew before; lunches and dinners cooked on outdoor grills.

But the charm of a plague of darkness like the kind that struck Westchester three times this summer wears thin in today’s ultra-wired universe.

The children want to watch a DVD rather than turn the pages of a book or play gin rummy. They don’t even know what gin rummy is.

Husbands and wives need to check their e-mail 24/7, even on lazy holiday weekends.

Cellphones and iPods need to be recharged. Trader Joe’s frozen jasmine rice goes bad when the refrigerator dies.

The power failures that Westchester had — from Ernesto on Labor Day weekend, a tornado and lesser windstorm in July and powerful storms earlier in the year — were not the kind of encompassing grid failures that blacked out New York City in 1965, 1977 and 2003. Lights then were restored in a day or two.

But with Ernesto blowing down 1,300 trees and weekend utility crews spread exceedingly thin, whole neighborhoods had to cope without electricity for five or six days. The romance faded very quickly.

The supervisor of Greenburgh, Paul J. Feiner, who compared the ineffective response with that of a Third World country, has asked the utility to explore the merits of gradually burying power lines underground, where they won’t be a subject to the whims of weather. He suggested that overhead lines might be as outdated as rotary-dial phones.

“People have no confidence the power is going to stay on,†he said. “I’ve had constituents who had five, six and seven outages this year alone.â€

Burying cables may be an idea whose time has come. The suburbs have matured from quaint bedroom communities to places where one-third of Americans live.

In 1950, just before Con Edison took over county power, Westchester had 625,000 people, or 1,445 per square mile. It now has 923,459, or 2,134 per square mile. While it once had 25,000 acres of farmland, it is down to 9,900, mostly plant nurseries enabling suburbanites to adorn backyards.

Americans live far differently than they did in the 1950’s or even the 90’s. More work out of their homes because they can, as long as computers and fax machines keep working. Children raised on Super Mario Brothers cannot spend four days by flashlight.

William J. McGrath, Con Edison’s vice president for the Bronx and Westchester electric operations, marshals some compelling arguments for keeping the present system. It costs $100,000 a mile to string a line overhead, but $1 million to bury it, which would mean $5 billion for the entire county.

Those figures don’t include the costs of repeatedly restringing lines after storms, but Mr. McGrath said repairs on underground cables, though less frequent, are much more expensive and take much longer than lifting workers to the top of a pole in a bucket truck.

Con Edison, he said, runs underground cable in downtowns like White Plains and Yonkers where the density of population and the density of cables required justify the costs.

But homeowners in more spread-out villages, he argued, would not want to see their bills raised to pay for burying cables, including the $2,000 to $10,000 per home for new metering equipment.

But what Con Edison doesn’t seem to factor in is the cost of lost days of work, spoiled food, hotels for orphans of the storm — and shattered equanimity.

If predictions of global warming and its consequences are to be trusted, Westchester residents can expect more seasons of fierce storms and hair-pulling disruptions — true inconveniences, not just inconvenient truths.

Yes, less well-to-do homeowners will recoil at the cost of submerging power lines, but discussion can begin with state and local governments about ways to have wealthier homeowners pick up more of the tab, perhaps by tying the bill for construction to the assessed value of houses. The state can also provide subsidies.

Chris Olert, a Con Ed spokesman, said the company would soon evaluate its performance, as it does after every big storm.

One question that should be studied is why there were not more crews on call for the Labor Day weekend.

But readiness is a management problem; the bigger issue is where power lines should be.

Many frustrated county residents are saying that gradually burying them in more teeming suburban areas — over dozens of years so the bills don’t pinch — should be at the top of the agenda.

E-mail: joeberg@nytimes.com

[Jybehofd 85]

Its not a bad idea but will they do the same amount of maintance as they do now on the over head lines? There is no one maintaining this stuff. I rarely see crews in my neck of the woods taking care of things unless something happens then it takes 4-6hrs or 2-5 days depending on what happened. Does anyone else see them doing maintance on the lines?

[PFD165 1]

Overhead lines may be more unsightly and are definitely at the mercy of Mother Nature( and the occasional DWI ) but the underground lines will be more costly to repair as the streets or grass area will need to be dug up and then restored. That will cause the customers to be irrate over the inconvenience that causes and of course somebody's prize tree or rose bush will be in the way and be destroyed generating a damage claim against the utility.

[JM15 386]

HEy atleast it will cut down on the wires down calls, thats a positive

[Guest SQUADco119]

Yes they will n eed to dig and make a mess to put the lines in the ground and its easier maitinence above ground but they will have manholes and pvc piping to act as a tunnel to make repairs easier and so they dont have to dig all the time. Eather way u look at it there will be power problems no matter what.

[helicopper 1,050]

Yes they will n eed to dig and make a mess to put the lines in the ground and its easier maitinence above ground but they will have manholes and pvc piping to act as a tunnel to make repairs easier and so they dont have to dig all the time. Eather way u look at it there will be power problems no matter what.

←

Given Westchester's propensity for flooding, I don't think there would be much of a benefit to justify the expense of going underground. You may have fewer wires down calls but you'll be dealing with manhole fires instead!

At 5 BILLION dollars (projected) to go underground, a few days without power is a much less expensive albeit inconvenient alternative!

[khas143 13]

Given Westchester's propensity for flooding, I don't think there would be much of a benefit to justify the expense of going underground.  You may have fewer wires down calls but you'll be dealing with manhole fires instead!

At 5 BILLION dollars (projected) to go underground, a few days without power is a much less expensive albeit inconvenient alternative!

←

Quite simply, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Now, people are angry that they lost power and if we switch underground, people will be angry that their lawns will be dug up fixing underground power lines.

It would be chepaer for Con-Ed customers to go out and buy a small generator than to convert the entire system underground.

People need to be prepared to lose power. It is a fact of life and we all need to be prepared to deal with it.

[FirNaTine 370]

Why not spend half as much and put it towards increasing their staffing. I was told just recently that ConEd at one time had 30,000 employees and due to budget cuts, now only have about 9,000. I say increase your staffing first. It's probably alot easier and cheaper than going underground.

[steve shryock 0]

A major advantage to moving the utility lines underground is that it will greatly improve truck access to a majority of structures.

[Jybehofd 85]

Yes they will n eed to dig and make a mess to put the lines in the ground and its easier maitinence above ground but they will have manholes and pvc piping to act as a tunnel to make repairs easier and so they dont have to dig all the time. Eather way u look at it there will be power problems no matter what.

←

Oh manholes i forgot, how many manhole explosions does FDNY do? I know they do a few. But that would be something we would have to babysit to instead of the wires down. I think its a little worse then wires down.

[Guest SQUADco119]

No doubt in my mind it would be just as equally the same as wires above ground but there was a great point brought up that benefits the fire service- truck accsess! You have to way the pros and cons me could care less wethere its above or underground.

[5slow 9]

Good arguments - Maybe the billionaire cable company could go in on it with them and put there lines underground as well... They definitely seem to have more than enough money!

[hudson144 150]

putting wires underground is like saying every department throughout the USA will man the rigs with 10 firefighters per rig. Our electric rates are high enough and although it is a great idea it will cost us the consumer alot of $$$$ overall!

[steve shryock 0]

If all the utilities got together and shared the expense it would be great. Yes we already pay enough for utilities, taxes, more taxes and then gas. However, in my community, there is little maintenance on the overhead lines and very little preventative tree trimming.

Personally, I would not mind paying a little more (surcharge) over time to have the lines moved underground. I reside in a 3 story H style complex on a major road. There is tons of room in front however the utility lines are right in front of my building and are a major obstacle should there be a fire. Just the life safety factor alone makes this important. I'm not a truckie but these lines are a major consideration in the pre plan of a 6 story building immediatly to the north of mine. The truck placement is so crucial that they actually painted off an area in the side parking lot for the truck should there be any fire there. If the utility lines were removed then the truck would have all the space it wanted in front of the building and be useful for roof ops, at any position in front of the building.

BTW this is one of the EXTREMELY few times I would agree to pay anything extra over the already high cost of liviing.

[27east 19]

Why not spend half as much and put it towards increasing their staffing. I was told just recently that ConEd at one time had 30,000 employees and due to budget cuts, now only have about 9,000. I say increase your staffing first. It's probably alot easier and cheaper than going underground.

←

Excellent point. Does anyone have Con Ed's T&D maintenance staffing numbers?

[27east 19]

If all the utilities got together and shared the expense it would be great.  Yes we already pay enough for utilities, taxes, more taxes and then gas.  However, in my community, there is little maintenance on the overhead lines and very little preventative tree trimming. 

Personally, I would not mind paying a little more (surcharge) over time to have the lines moved underground.  I reside in a 3 story H style complex on a major road.  There is tons of room in front however the utility lines are right in front of my building and are a major obstacle should there be a fire.  Just the life safety factor alone makes this important.  I'm not a truckie but these lines are a major consideration in the pre plan of a 6 story building immediatly to the north of mine.  The truck placement is so crucial that they actually painted off an area in the side parking lot for the truck should there be any fire there.  If the utility lines were removed then the truck would have all the space it wanted in front of the building and be useful for roof ops, at any position in front of the building.

BTW this is one of the EXTREMELY few times I would agree to pay anything extra over the already high cost of liviing.

←

Do you have the $5 billion this is estimated to cost?

Edited September 26, 2006 by 23piraf

[27east 19]

No one likes to loose power. Of course not.

But power outages are a fact of life, like someone else said above.

I AM NOT DEFENDING THE RESPONSE OF CON ED.

They were awful, as usual. However, you can't just wake up in the morning and decide to bury wires and transformers and everything is right with the world.

Underground splicing of new power cables can take up to 12 hours. Also, there are not as many employees who can repair them. Then there are the manhole fires.

It would be a good idea to bury all the wires in new developments. Con Ed must do a better job of trimming trees, improve their communications and their response.

Edited September 26, 2006 by 23piraf

[steve shryock 0]

No I don't have that $$. If I did i wouldn't be on this board because I would be somewhere else.

I agree that Con Ed has downsized and that manpower is a major issue, as in a lot of other fields/services.

I am no expert but I understand that Con Ed has a state of the art training facility somewhere in the 5 Boroughs that teaches the employees how to do necessary work.

I was only agreeing with 5slow's comment that maybe the big boys could get together and do something since they have a lot of cash. Look at Cablevision and how they are backdating options to dead employees to make their estates more valuable. They should take that $$ and apply it to research for energy/utility delivery.

Actually the idea of burying the utility lines, in my community, has been discussed a few times in the past 25 years but it has gone with the waterfront redevelopement, something that has been discussed for the past 30 years with little progress

Edited September 26, 2006 by steve shryock

[Guest]

Burying of lines in Westchester would be 'limited'

By ALLAN DRURY

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original Publication: September 28, 2006)

The top executive of Consolidated Edison Inc. said today that if the company decides to move power lines underground, the projects would be limited to areas where outages are frequent.

Kevin Burke, the chairman, president and chief executive of the utility company, said in a meeting with the editorial board of The Journal News that burying lines is costly and can make for a less reliable electrical system.

Burke spoke about the company's plans to improve its service following a two-hour session with state legislators who questioned him about the company's response to a Sept. 2 storm that resulted in large-scale outages.

Read more about this story tomorrow in The Journal News.