YFD List Updates?

[Guest]

Its been a LONG while since there have been any updates. Whats new, anything? Its now over 2 years since the test and we're left with no score and no rank.

I'm sure the lot of us would die to have any info available. Anyone, please help.

Thanks

[Guest]

Unfortunately Yonkers is a very strange cuty when it comes to civil service lists and hiring. They do not fully explain their scoring system. Scores can be manipulated any way they want. You may wait years and never hear anything. When you ask them a question they don't answer it. They tell you to file a lawsuit under the freedom of information act. It is a very frustrating experience to deal with them.

There has not been a firefighter hired in Yonkers since June 2003

Good Luck.

[Guest]

I hear ya crest...I remember that exam being offered almost 3 years ago and I have a family member who took that exam who still hasnt heard anything whatsoever!!!

Apparently pyro is right about the city, I mean, I know every city has its slow politics, but this has been taking quite a while for the candidates to just know their score, let alone having a list compiled and activated! You always hear those rumors that are going around about this list, but nothing can be confirmed by the city or the YFD, (seems like filing lawsuits is the only way to get an answer ).....

well, the positive news is this though...

as pyro mentioned the last firefighter that was hired for yonkers was in 2003 (which I thought it was 2002), so in the past 3, almost 4 years...there must be a decent amt. of vacancies due to retirements, and anything else going on in that city, maybe even this ridge hill project might promote some more hires!

In a nutshell, the city of Yonkers is going to have to hire its firefighters sometime relatively soon...its just been too long for that list to go unheard of, and 0 firefighters hired in one of the busiest depts. in the state!!!

keep your heads up, I'm sure something will bound to occur in the near future, so good luck!

[Guest]

"Its been a LONG while since there have been any updates. Whats new, anything? Its now over 2 years since the test and we're left with no score and no rank.

I'm sure the lot of us would die to have any info available. Anyone, please help.

Thanks"

seriously....

[Guest]

There's a ton of YFD hopefuls out there. It would be nice to know what's going on, and where we and they stand so we can plan our future a little.

[yfd910 8]

OK. Here we go:

The last class hired was in July of 2003 - 39 were hired.

The last test was given in June 2004. Physicals were conducted in the Fall of 2004.

Now, there haven't been enough vacancies on the job to justify hiring a class.............yet. Also, certain criteria must be met pertaining to the list that was established in 2003 (and is still the current list) which I will not discuss to anyone off the job (YFD). You all know the rumors. Now, no municiplaity, under Civil Service law, can release or establish a new list while there is still a current list in effect. No, Yonkers does not reveal their scoring system, but I would think, like the other cities in Westchester, that it's a combination of the written score and the physical scores. Also, remember that Yonkers is held to the Consent Decree, which does effect scoring, like it or not. When YFD is ready to hire a new class, and certain criteria are met for the current list, the new list will be established, take effect, letters sent out to all who passed with your score and your placement / number on the list, and, shortly afterward, applications sent to those that are being considered for the job.

Just be patient.................

[Guest]

thanks for all that YFD910

question though...what is the consent decree all about? i know its a pretty common thing, but i'm not really familiar with it...

also, any word on possible timelines at least? i understand everything u said, but i'm curious?

[Guest Pal196]

The Consent Decree came about in late 1970's & 1980, when the Vulcan Society, sued the four cities in Westchester (Yonkers, New Rochelle, White Plains & Mt. Vernon) about hiring practices not being equally reflective of the minority population in each respective city and the lack of recruitment drives targeting minority canidiates and women. Each city has different settlements with the Federal Justice Dept and the Vulcan Society, so the agreement for Yonkers will not neccesarily be the same as the ones for Mt. Vernon, New Rochelle & White Plains. So in Yonkers, when you see the recruitment center open at the time of an upcoming test, the recruitment posters and flyers and the prep classes given prior to the written exam, that is a small part of the Consent Decree. Scoring of the written exam questions also falls under the Consent Decree too. Also the timetable of the length of lists entry and promotional fall under the Consent Decree and are set at two years in Yonkers. If that timetable is to be changed it has to go through all parties involved in the Consent Decree (Vulcan Society, Yonkers Civil Service & the Federal Justice Dept) to be approved. There is probably more to the Decree other than what I mentioned.

As for the hiring of a YFD Probie Class, the talk going around is POSSIBLY in the Spring of 2007. But remember, they have to hire the next 13 canidates on the current list due to an order from the Justice Dept. (a different order from the 1980 Consent Decree) Once the next 13 canidates are hired, that list will be expired and the new list that has been waiting to come out will go into effect. So you could possibly see a YFD Probie class consisting of canidates from the current list and the new one, if the number of canidates needed to be hired is greater than 13. (I heard this happened one time before in the late 80's where a class consisted of canidates from two different FF entry lists). You also have to remember that a year or two ago, the YFD lost FF positions in their budget, so that further delayed the current list in reaching the next 13 canidates.

Hopefully this helps.

[Guest]

very informative Pal! looks like i learned something too...if you dont mind though, I have some questions concerning that...I understand all the posters and stuff prior to applying for it, but how does the Consent Decree effect the written exam scores? correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember in NYC, the Consent Decree had something to also do with filling in quota's to diversify the department? Is that something like what you mean, otherwise, how does it affect the written exam scores?

Also, when you mentioned the lists entry has to fall under 2 years, in other words, does that basically mean that all Yonkers lists are only good to last for two years? I recall, other than the exam before the most recent one, all lists were extended to 4 years? Is that pretty much how it works? Minimum of 2, to a maximum of 4, which they usually end up going to anyways in order to save on costs?

Also, since you seem to know this stuff , any word/prediction/talk on how many people they MIGHT being putting in off the newer list, not including the ones they will be putting into the combined class with the old list (IF they end up doing that)? Seems like from all this, they really dont have many slots open to hire many classes, but you would also think that they would be hiring a good amt. considering the last class that went in almost 4 years ago, and all the recent developments going on in that city...any thoughts?

thanks much!

[KCRD 6]

No one knows for sure exactly how the Consent Decree effects the written score except for the Justice Dept. and the person who scores the test. Yonkers Civil Service doesn't know the formula and neither does the YFD. If someone tells you other wise they are lying. There have been many attempts to find out the formula and all have been unsuccessful. The only thing known for sure is there is some sort of curve to help the minorities qualify for the physical exam. The scoring process is suppossed to be 50-50 but the written is clearly heavily favored.

Edited September 15, 2006 by KCRD

[Guest Pal196]

LPFire19,

State Civil Service Law states that eligible/promotional lists can run no less than 1 year or no more than 4 years after being established. So when the Vulcan Decree with Yonkers was set at 2 years as the run time of lists, it fell with those guidelines. When a list is to be extended greater than the two years stated in the Consent Decree, it has to be agreed to by all parties involved. If the Vulcan Society says Yes, for the most part it will be extended and if they say No, it will most likely will not. Since, the Vulcan Society are the plantiffs in the original lawsuit the Justice Dept. will usually let the Vulcan Society position be the guiding force on whether or not to extend a list. So, Yonkers just can't extend a list "for money saving reasons" without going through this whole process and justifying it and everyone agreeing to it. As we all know, the Justice Dept wields alot of weight, so they definately have the final word.

When it comes to scoring questions on the entry written exam for Yonkers, I have read that there is a stipulation in the agreement that states if a ceratain percentage (I believe 80% of minority canidates) taking the test get the question wrong, the question is thrown out because it termed to be an "Adverse Impact" question. To be quite honest with you, I don't know if the question is thrown out for all canidates or just certain canidates taking the written exam. As to any other scoring methods used, I don't know, that is all known by the parties in Consent Decree and State Civil Service, who have to grade the tests for the municipalities. I am quite sure the other 3 municipalities having scoring stipulations too. Hopefully someone who is familiar with them could shed some light on their scoring methods.

As to how many canidates they would expect to hire from the new list during its run time. I would only be guessing if I gave you number, I honestly do not know. Who knows how long the list will be in existence once it is established, is anyone's guess. With all the talk going on with ongoing and proposed development throughout Yonkers, the potential is always there for growth for the YFD; but until it it happens and if it ever happens, it is only talk and rumors.

Edited September 15, 2006 by Pal196

[Guest]

In regards to the Consent Decree...

I took the last White Plains Fire test and while researching how they calculated the scores/ranks, I found some info about the Consent Decree. From what I read, I was under the impression that when the Decree was implemented in WP, it made the written portion of the exam Pass/Fail instead of giving a grade. So the ranks are ONLY based on the agility portion. Basically, it gives a greater number of people a chance to do well on the exam.

Im not so sure it will produce the most qualified prospects for the job considering that a person with a 100% and a person with a 70% are grouped equally....but its a reality that can't be changed. Its just the way it is.

[Guest]

I didn't expect this level of response......thanks guys for the info. Its a big help for those of us waiting, very impatiantly I must say .

Boy, that Vulcan Society, winning over hearts and minds. I have an idea, take an already easy test, with no racial bias and be scored. Hows that for a method of getting on the job? Sounds fair to me, right.

All this push for extra stuff....score adjustments on the tests, heavier recurting in certain neighborhoods. NO ONE RECRUITED ME!! I got a book and hit the library and the track and worked.

If I don't get hired, it's because someone more worthwhile and better qualified got it, and I'll live with that.

Thanks again to the guys from YFD for the the answer, be safe

[jd783 64]

Just FYI I think they have 20 openings as of now Best of luck to all

[firecapt32 282]

from what I understand, the current list will stay in effect until they reach a certin point, again i believe thay have to offer the job to the 13th person on the current list, Then that list can expire and a new list can be established. There is a current mandate from the Federal Gov't Depatment of Justice to do this. this stems from a lawsuit.

Who ever said that politics makes strange bedfellows is right.

Good luck too all the canidates, no matter what happens or how it happens this is still the best job in the world.

[Guest]

just like crest, i also want to thank everyone for the input, especially the guys from YFD...

i'm sure everyone who is on the list really appreciates it, and will continue to wait (impatiently )....soon enough, things will pick up and hirings are bound to happy....................................right? haha

thanks again

[Guest]

Great to see everyone giving some kind of feedback on this topic!!!

Thats very odd though to hear about what they do in WP (if thats truly the case)...

I dont really understand how that would work? As I said earlier, I believe that I recall that the Decree pretty just stated that if you were a minority, you got extra preference or points or something like that. Almost as if there is a quota that needs to be filled, and they would look into what ethnicities took the exam, and what ethnicities that they have a low amt. of, and they try to score them on a curve in order to get them in and diversify....for all I know, i just made all that up, LOL, but I believe thats what I heard awhile back, but then again, as someone stated earlier, each city has a different way of doing it too, so I'm just totally not sure, haha!

[Guest]

Great to see everyone giving some kind of feedback on this topic!!!

Thats very odd though to hear about what they do in WP (if thats truly the case)...

I dont really understand how that would work?  As I said earlier, I believe that I recall that the Decree pretty just stated that if you were a minority, you got extra preference or points or something like that.  Almost as if there is a quota that needs to be filled, and they would look into what ethnicities took the exam, and what ethnicities that they have a low amt. of, and they try to score them on a curve in order to get them in and diversify....for all I know, i just made all that up, LOL, but I believe thats what I heard awhile back, but then again, as someone stated earlier, each city has a different way of doing it too, so I'm just totally not sure, haha!

←

I could also be wrong about WP. I do know for a fact that the written test is Pass/Fail. I remeber reading or maybe someone told me that it had something to do with the Consent Decree. But basically in any cases stated above, it affords the opportinuty to a larger number of people. Its similar to what FDNY did recently by reducing the college credit requirement.

Edited September 15, 2006 by cl117