Drinking And Behavior In The Public Eye

[Guest]

I have published my first article on FireEMSAlpha.com, and thanks to FireEMSAlpa.com for publishing it.

It's called "Drinking And Behavior In The Public Eye" and is about a very interesting photo I got via an email foward chain.

Check it out and let me know what you think. I'm not so much talking about the situattion in the photo, just the fact that I got the photo knowing no one in this department, and the fact this situation and mentality still exists with no regrets and continues to be passed on to the younger generations.

Check it out, http://www.fireemsalpha.com

PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT OR PEOPLE INVOLVED, PLEASE DISCUSS ONLY THE SITUATION! THANKS!

[Sean11FD 3]

I think its very well written, and you make very good points. I could never understand why firefighter got so much s*** for drinking, and then getting stereotyped for being drunks. Ive heard stories from old timers in my department about guys passed out in the back of the ambulance at a fire, sure s*** like that happened. But from what I know, that s*** isnt tollerated anymore. Good points on how any one drinks (doctors, lawyers ect.) reguardless of yout title in society.

[Guest]

That photo was actually just used in a training presentation I attended, as my instructor also got the foward. Sadly, I can't say I'm suprised that this goes on.

What does suprise me is the ignorant commisioners who allow this to occur.

Please assure me that when this behavior goes on, there is an acting sober chief and firefighters, and enough of them. Man, if one of these guys ever showed up at my house inebrieated, there's going to be hell to pay.

This topics been discussed here a lot before, and even beaten to death. But when a photo such as this surfaces, it still makes me shake my head and hope it will start the ball rolling.

Very nice article, too.

[Monty 35]

Good, provocative piece. Well done. Given the current view of society on drinking, I personally feel very wary drinking in uniform (work or dress) in public.

Recently there was a posting here of an apparatus driver being charged with DWI. I'm sure over the years, this has quietly been swept under the carpet. I wonder what would happen how if drivers at a 11pm call were faced with a DWI check?

The thing to remember is that when you are a firefighter (career or volunteer), police officer or any other slew of public officials - you are on duty 24hrs. We're always seeing stories with 'off-duty' firefighters. Who ever hears about John Doe, a plumber saving someone / DWI / larceny etc???

It's tough, happens slowly - but maybe we should stand up against tradition?

[LCFD968 10]

What is the point???? FF drinking in public? FF drinking in public while off duty? or is it drinking in public while off duty in uniform?

If they are off duty and drinking at a local pub and not responding to an alarm whats the problem? If they act like idiots then by all means bash them but if they are chugging a beer, like they are in the picture, whats the problem?

This always seems to be the case around here we make mountains out of mole hills. Bash the FF that are out drunk driving killing and hurting people.

Now I am probable going to get bashed for what i have said here (as I always do) but there is nothing wrong with this picture. Two innocent guys having a good time after a parade, funeral or whatever they attended.

[johnvv 20]

I'm sure that most firefighters on this site would agree that consuming alcohol on duty is a no-no. I think the real question is whether you are a paid or non-paid firefighter, when are you "on duty"?

I have a simple answer to this question. If you are wearing fire department issued gear (or uniform), you are on duty. Whether you are harmlessly having one beer after a parade or funeral, you can thank past firefighters actions for creating the public perception that all firefighters are drunks.

Want to drink after a parade or funeral? Wear a non descript tee shirt under your uniform shirt, carry the telephone number of a cab service and enough money for them to take you home.

[e92l44 0]

Bad point about a doctor in a lab coat drinking in a bar.

You don't see firefighters in Bunker Gear drinking in a bar!!! (I hope).

Doctors don't attend social gatherings for their occupation and its members in white lab coats with stethescopes. They attend in a suit and tie, at venues that most firefighters don't or have never attended.

Remember firefighters aren't attending these gatherings in their work-duty uniforms. Firefighters attend their social gatherings in Class A uniform as a sense of pride in their department or occupation. These members in atttendance should not be confused with members, ACTUALLY ON-DUTY and WORKING.

Due to their middle class lifestyle, and the price per person, these events are often held in Bars or Bar/Resturants where those who are enjoying a good time often end up at the bar, not wanting to leave.

If you don't misbehave, by fighting, DWI, vomiting or urinating on yourself, then I say, have a good time and "Drink Up!"

[Monty 35]

Remember firefighters aren't attending these gatherings in their work-duty uniforms.  Firefighters attend their social gatherings in Class A uniform as a sense of pride in their department or occupation.  These members in atttendance should not be confused with members, ACTUALLY ON-DUTY and WORKING.

←

I honestly don't know - but what are the rules for the Armed Forces? You can argue that they don't wear their work uniform and that they are showing their pride as a member of the military.

During Fleet Week I see a lot of naval personnel in uniform. Are they allowed to drink in public bars in uniform? Or do they have orders to be out of uniform?

[Guest]

Bad point about a doctor in a lab coat drinking in a bar.

You don't see firefighters in Bunker Gear drinking in a bar!!!  (I hope).

Doctors don't attend social gatherings for their occupation and its members in white lab coats with stethescopes.  They attend in a suit and tie, at venues that most firefighters don't or have never attended.

Remember firefighters aren't attending these gatherings in their work-duty uniforms.  Firefighters attend their social gatherings in Class A uniform as a sense of pride in their department or occupation.  These members in atttendance should not be confused with members, ACTUALLY ON-DUTY and WORKING.

Due to their middle class lifestyle, and the price per person, these events are often held in Bars or Bar/Resturants where those who are enjoying a good time often end up at the bar, not wanting to leave. 

If you don't misbehave, by fighting, DWI, vomiting or urinating on yourself, then I say, have a good time and "Drink Up!"

←

The point I was trying to make was that you usually don't see other professions drinking in the streotypical garb of their profession-such as Class A Uniforms.

Do you think the public diffferentiates when we are on duty or off, when we are in uniform?

And why is it we have to wear a uniform and go to social events to take "pride" in the profession??? Shouldn't being a well trained firefighter, responding in a decent amount of time, and giving the public the best service we can, be enough to give us "pride"???

As for the not misbehaving, I'm sure we all have stories of alchohol-induced good times.

[Guest mediconpatrol]

Definately a thought provoking issue...

and I am ready to get yelled at for my comment:

If you are drinking in uniform it is only ASSUMED you are not going to respond to calls and that you are "off duty" Well, we all knew where assumed has gotten us.

Unfortunately, pictures like this only add to the perception that people have of firefighters. I had often wondered how NYC Fire Dept would allow the show Rescue Me wear uniforms that advertise them when the things they did are disgusting acts while in uniform.

Yes, the show is for entertainment purposes and people should enjoy it for that instead of a true story of the NYCFD, but people walk into my ER and wonder why it isnt like the show. It is the perception you are putting out there.

So eat drink and be merry...just dont do it in uniform

[LineCapt 134]

Here's my question to all of you.

If this photo was published in the paper, how would you caption it?

[e92l44 0]

Here's my question to all of you.

If this photo was published in the paper, how would you caption it?

←

Here is what I would have wrote:

9/12/06 - (Westchester County, NY)

Many local Westchester County Fire Departments paid tribute to victims of 9/11/06 yesterday. Here, local firefighters enjoy a toast to their 343 fallen brothers in the F.D.N.Y., and the other 2,654 people who perished on the anniversary of the devasting events of 9/11/01.

Here is what many think the paper will/can write:

9/15/06 - (Westchester County, NY)

Firefighters take the edge off after local business burns to the ground....

[e92l44 0]

My point:

Pictures don't always tell the truth....

Learn the facts, then judge.

We do it all the time when checking out "buff photographs". We know we must get our facts straight before we judge guy's actions based on those photographs. Why not the same when we see guys doing something we may not approve of, like drinking in uniform?

It may look bad, and I am not defending anyone here, but just be a MAN or WOMAN and become responsible for yourself and your actions.

Then we can all go out and have a good time, in uniform or not....

Edited September 14, 2006 by e92l44

[Remember585 815]

Firefighters' Faces Suddenly Vanish At Bar

9/15/06 - After enjoying a few beers after a recent celebration, members of the ABC Fire Department were shocked - not by the outrageous cost of downtown parking, but because thier faces had disappeared. Resources from the Westchester Medical Center said they haven't witnessed anything like this in "quite some time."

Lead medical investigators are looking into the chain of events that may have led to the "face-erasing."

"They were at a parade, had some hot dogs, drank a few beers, then lost thier faces," said Chief Bravo of the ABC FD.

"Boy, if this doesn't keep our guys from drinking in uniform, I don't know what will," commented the Chief. "We used to worry about how they would represent us if they drank too much, I think this will teach them."

-Associated Press

[LCFD968 10]

585----LOL!!!!!...... I think that sums it up....LOL

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Very nice OpEd piece. Very well written that clearly expresses your views and anyone reading it, whether they agree or not should take it as that. An opinioniated editorial.

As far as drinking in uniform. I have no problem with it, as long as it is in moderation and those doing it are conducting themselves in an appropriate manner. In moderation I mean no intoxication what so ever. If this piece ended up in the paper...I would say shame on them. No twists in what a caption would be, I would like to see them admonished if they knew the picture was being taken by the press. That is not an image that needs to be seen in newspapers. We may be regular guys, but just cause a shirt is free doesn't mean you have to wear it. If your gonna go out drinking, like VV said, wear a non-descript shirt. In fact you might get further for it. Nobody cares what you do. Nobody cares you are a firefighter, they only care when you show up and most girls like nicely dressed men. Not ones that only wear blue t-shirts.

As far as the military. You are allowed to drink in uniform. Again within constraint. If you act stupid, and I can speak for the Marine Corps your a$$ will get yanked hard. If you are off base and you do something, you not only will be prosecuted by the judicial system, you will also be charged by the military under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). So you will be doubly screwed. The exception for the Marine Corps is you are not allowed to wear your camoflauge utilities off base for any reason with the exception to get gas. The military is big on image, particulary the Marine Corps. From how long your hair can be, to what civilian clothes are appropriate, to what type of tatoos you have and if they can show. You can bet on it that it would be difficult to find a picture in the press of military personnel drinking...and you certainly wouldn't see it with their sleeves rolled up. (Its against regulation to alter the normal wear of your dress/service uniforms in anyway).

[Guest]

Pressure very well written !!! I could not agree with you more !!!

For a great example of why not to wear your uniform in public or worse get your picture taken in one watch news 12 today all day 09/15. I feel sorry for both services... again

Edited September 15, 2006 by HDQTRSWP

[210 91]

Very nice OpEd piece.  Very well written that clearly expresses your views and anyone reading it, whether they agree or not should take it as that.  An opinioniated editorial. 

As far as drinking in uniform.  I have no problem with it, as long as it is in moderation and those doing it are conducting themselves in an appropriate manner.  In moderation I mean no intoxication what so ever.  If this piece ended up in the paper...I would say shame on them.  No twists in what a caption would be, I would like to see them admonished if they knew the picture was being taken by the press.  That is not an image that needs to be seen in newspapers.  We may be regular guys, but just cause a shirt is free doesn't mean you have to wear it.  If your gonna go out drinking, like VV said, wear a non-descript shirt.  In fact you might get further for it.  Nobody cares what you do.  Nobody cares you are a firefighter, they only care when you show up and most girls like nicely dressed men.  Not ones that only wear blue t-shirts.

As far as the military.  You are allowed to drink in uniform.  Again within constraint.  If you act stupid, and I can speak for the Marine Corps your a$$ will get yanked hard.  If you are off base and you do something, you not only will be prosecuted by the judicial system, you will also be charged by the military under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice (UCMJ).  So you will be doubly screwed.  The exception for the Marine Corps is you are not allowed to wear your camoflauge utilities off base for any reason with the exception to get gas.  The military is big on image, particulary the Marine Corps.  From how long your hair can be, to what civilian clothes are appropriate, to what type of tatoos you have and if they can show.  You can bet on it that it would be difficult to find a picture in the press of military personnel drinking...and you certainly wouldn't see it with their sleeves rolled up.  (Its against regulation to alter the normal wear of your dress/service uniforms in anyway).

←

Pretty much the same for the Air Force however about 10 or so years ago they started allowing the wear of camoflauge in town to include eating establishments and bars. Again like als stated you have too much and act stupid your toast.

Here around Ft Bragg and Pope AFB the Army personnel also are allowed in town with camoflauge. Not sure if thats all Army posts or just this one.

Ever since the gulf war you don't see a lot of Air Force or Army personnel in blue or green dress uniforms anymore. From what I saw traveling in the last 5 years of my 20 in the USAF camoflauge is pretty much the uniform of the day anymore which is why I think they allow the wear of same in town.

Edited September 15, 2006 by 210

[EJS1810 7]

Pressure  very well written !!!  I could not agree with you more !!! 

For a great example of why not to wear your uniform in public or worse get your picture taken in one watch news 12 today all day 09/15. I feel sorry for both services... again

←

Could you enlighten those of us in the non Cablevision world Please?

[firecapt32 282]

As stated before the piece is well written and this topic should be revisited once in a while. As a State Fire Instructor, I have informed all my classes about what the public thinks about the fire service when it comes to being inthe public eye and having a few drinks. I aggree with JohnnyVV have another shirt of some kind-- turn you shirt inside out.

Just be aware that the public does indeed love us---but they also love to make us pay a price for making mistakes.

Homer is also correct have a drink or 2 ---stay well with in your limits-- you know you can have fun with out drinks.

Always remember the public is watching and does remember...in this case one bad apple does spoil the barrel.

Have fun be safe dont drink and drive.

Edited September 17, 2006 by firecapt32

[bob803 1]

I couldn't agree with you more. How about drinking out of a chief's car in a parking lot. What does that say......

[HFD209 4]

I AGREE WITH ALL THE ABOVE STATMENTS AND IT IS VERY HARD NOT TO ATTEND A LOCAL WATERING HOLE WHEN THE END OF THE PARADE IS RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET.. I JUST GET A KICK OUT OF THE GUYS THAT ATTEND A PARADE AT 1 IN THE AFTERNOON AND GO UOT AT 11 OR 12 AT NIGHT STILL WEARING THE UNIFORM B/C THEY DONT HAVE TO PAY FOR COVER AT THE BARS OR THEY THINK ITS COOL. I THINK THIS IS ALITTLE REDICULIOUS.

IF YOUR GOING TO ABUSE THE PRIVLAGE AND HONOR OF BEING A FIRE FIGHTER, THEN IM SORRY ILL JUST STAY HOME. ITS VERY DISGRACFUL WHEN YOU SEE A LOCAL FIRE DEPT MEMBER AT A WHITEPLAINS BAR BEING CARRIED OUT BY HIS FRIENDS. I FEEL VERY ASHAMED TO BE ASSOSIATED WITH THIS TYPE OF PEOPLE. HOPEFULLY PEOPLE THINK WITH THIER BRIAN NOT THIER BEER GUT.

[Remember585 815]

When I was growing up, I remember how bad I wanted to be a part of my firehouse. It was the one and only thing that I knew I wanted to do in High School. When I was 14 I joined our Explorer Post. I was all into it. I carried my pager like it was a case full of money, I went to the firehouse every chance I could and I tried to get others to join.

What drove me NUTS - and it still does to this day, was how certain kids I went to school with constantly made comments to me about how firemen were all drunks. That upset me. I always looked up to the guys in the FD as brave, dedicated men. To hear these jackholes make these comments got me so heated that on a few occassions I shoved them. Nobody should be allowed to criticize a fireman!!!

As I get older, I realize, man, as much as I hate to admit it, in some ways these kids were right. As I moved up the line and became a Company Officer, I, and my Lieutenants, pushed to get rid of the bar in the firehouse. We also strictly enforced (and still do) our zero-tolerance rules. It caused us to lose some members, but as far as I am concerned, we lost no FIREFIGHTERS!

I am not against drinking. Hell, I do from time to time. But I refuse, FLAT OUT REFUSE to partake in drinking in uniform. It's a personal preference. I am glad to say that most of the guys in my company won't do it either. Those that do know they are out of service and won't even consider answering a call. At our recent wetdown, we did something that actually shocked people. We kept the Engine IN-SERVICE. We designated a crew of 8 to cover it. When we got sent on our first run of the night, we had over 16 people respond because hardly anyone was drinking. People actually told me we were a bunch of "blanks" and should of let others cover our calls.

No thanks! Our Captain and the rest of us prefer being available for calls over drinking. Just a preference we have.

[hudson144 150]

certain statements that are on here are real valid and i respect all of them, as mentioned before if you do drink then act responsible,don't be a jack***. I have been out many times in uniform EG: after a funeral,St. Patricks day etc. and i do conduct myself in a professional manner. Are some guys out of hand? yes-its up to all of us to say something to him/her if they are from where you are. are we in the public eye? yup- some people don't even care if we exist, some people do not appreciate us until they call us. For those of you that spent any time wearing a military uniform this same situation was present. you always had one dope who could not conduct himself in a manner like others and yes he made an a** out of himself. from reading some of the above its almost like we have to present our selves as nuns (some preists are not a good example these days) so come on give it a break and just behave when you are out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[firecapt32 282]

What a concept Hudson--behave when you are out---should be behave like someone is watching you--cause they are.

Just simple rules to live by--

[hudson144 150]

i think i behave! lol

[Guest]

Let me tell ya this site gets better and better way to stick together my fellow so called brothers. Just like anything else it is the individual who gets out of hand not the fire service. Blurred out faces or not why even leave your brothers out to hang

[Guest]

Let me tell ya this site gets better and better way to stick together my fellow so called brothers. Just like anything else it is the individual who gets out of hand not the fire service. Blurred out faces or not why even leave your brothers out to hang

←

So what are you saying? Brothers should hide and cover up things that could get other brothers in trouble, injured, or worse? We should never bring problems to light because it is the "individual", like this problem is not repeating itself elsewhere?

I say sticking together means looking out for your "brothers" welfare, not ignoring the problem with some lame excuse brushing it off every time. They chose to pose for the camera when drinking, not this site. I received the email foward like many others did. It's good that members bring problems like this to light, and those who want to sweep things under the carpet scare me. Good job Pressure writing this article, and don't worry about those stuck in the "old school" mentality. This is a profession, last time I checked.

[firerabbi33 0]

Very well written. I could not agree more. My department has a bar and It would not bother me one bit if it had to go. Let's stay safe out there.

[RWC130 594]

EXCELLENT STORY!

I would have to say Hudson144 pretty much said what I was going to say.

IMAGE IS EVERYTHING!!!!!!

As always YOU are responsible for YOUR OWN actions.

PD, FD, or EMS Agency should not suffer if YOU do something stupid.

As far as being out in Class A's having a cold one... Who here has not?

Let's be honest. I didn't smash a bar stool over someones head or get arrested for DWI on the way home in my Class A's as NEWS12 was standing by but I did enjoy a beer after an event once or twice.

Did "I" use bad judgement stopping for a beer with some pals from the FD?

Yeah, Maybe I did..... But if something should have happened blast the person NOT the agency. We have too much of that as it is.

Where do you draw the line? If I am meeting some friends at TGIFriday's

for some food and a few beers and I happen to have my FD T-Shirt on am

I a bad guy?

You don't always have to be RIGHT but REASONABLE? YES!

LIFE IS TOO SHORT, BE SAFE!