FF does jail time for not wearing seat belt

[Guest]

I wonder what his Department has to say about the matter... And, once again a reminder to all of us that, as 1st responders, our personal actions are constantly under scrutiny by the media and the public.

Would the AP have run this story if the subject in question were not a FF ??? Don't think so...

Posted on Thu, Sep. 07, 2006 

Firefighter opts for jail over fine for not wearing seat belt

JIM SUHR

Associated Press

EDWARDSVILLE, Ill. - Mark Bohnenstiehl admits the irony of his stance: A volunteer firefighter who doesn't wear a seat belt because he believes they can be dangerous and should be a matter of personal choice.

He went to the Madison County jail this week to punctuate his resolve.

Given the option Wednesday of paying a $55 fine or doing a half day of community service to settle a July 13 ticket for not wearing a seat belt, he balked and soon found himself secured tightly in the county jail for contempt.

Bohnenstiehl was ordered freed Thursday by the judge, ending without apology his 20-hour stay behind bars. The confinement was to have run through Friday.

"Seat belts are good and they do save lives, no doubt about it," Bohnenstiehl, 51, said outside his rural home near this St. Louis suburb. "I don't wear one, and it should be a matter of choice."

Federal highway safety agencies long have recommended that safety belts always be worn, even in vehicles equipped with air bags. But Bohnenstiehl said he believes seat belts can prevent motorists from escaping burning vehicles.

In court, Bohnenstiehl never mentioned that he was a firefighter or why he refused the fine or community service offered by a prosecutor.

So he was led away in handcuffs.

But on Thursday, he explained himself, saying he didn't think he owed a fine and didn't want to do community service because of the ticket from the Illinois State Police.

"I didn't feel I owed the community for not wearing a seat belt," he said. "It just kind of rubbed me the wrong way."

The judge, Janet Heflin, declined to discuss the case Thursday, citing ethical grounds.

Last month, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported that last year's overall traffic fatality rate nationwide was up for the first time in two decades. About 55 percent of the passenger vehicle occupants killed were not wearing seat belts, the agency said.

"The statistics do show that seat belts save lives," said Terry Ford, vice president of the Illinois Firefighters Association, which represents about 24,000 firefighters statewide.

Ford has heard opinions similar to Bohnenstiehl's from other emergency responders, typically from police who say they don't wear seat belts because the safety devices frustrate their access to their weapons if they were attacked.

"There have been cases where seat belt use was detrimental," but such instances are rare, Ford said.

[billy98988 107]

I wonder what his Department has to say about the matter...   And, once again a reminder to all of us that, as 1st responders, our personal actions are constantly under scrutiny by the media and the public.

Would the AP have run this story if the subject in question were not a FF ???   Don't think so...

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everyone will prolly disagree with me. but

personally, i dont wear one.

and i think if its your time to go, then its your time

no matter seatbelt or not.

[robert benz 344]

everyone will prolly disagree with me. but

personally, i dont wear one.

and i think if its your time to go, then its your time

no matter seatbelt or not.

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your time to go puts me at the scene dealing with you and i didnt have a choice

[x635 4,066]

everyone will prolly disagree with me. but

personally, i dont wear one.

and i think if its your time to go, then its your time

no matter seatbelt or not.

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I'm just curious, but how old are you?

As far as the above reply and the article posted.......

I do not understand why you would make that statement, much more in a public forum full of professionals. What you said can be applied to anything...."I don't look before crossing the street because when it's your time, it's your time". How crazy does that sound?

I would think that anyone with experience who has been to enough MVA's wouldn't make such a statement. Seatbelts DO save lives. Proven and witnessed fact over and over.....can't tell you how many times in the ER bay we've said "Boy, if she didn't have her seatbelt on........"

If you have a death wish, don't bring it upon your brothers.

And I'm sure your company has a seatbelt policy, so if you choose not to follow safety guidelines then you have no business riding on any piece of fire apparatus. In fact, get out of the fire service, because you're probaly the type that sometimes "doesnt need" you're hood or SCBA, etc. Not wearing your seatbelt, and gloating about it, is a clear example of someone who doesn't wan't to be part of a team or follow department guideline.

Seatbelts can be dangerous, but in VERY rare instances. So can oxygen. As a firefighter, you are looked up to as a role model...if a little kid sees you not wearing one, will he think he has to wear one?

BE PROFESSIONAL AND PUT YOUR DARN SEATBELT ON! I highly suggest finding other ways to act like an idiot that don't make the fire service look bad. This guy should have had way more jail time, maybe he could learn teamwork from his jailmates.

Edited September 8, 2006 by x635

[Guest]

billy98988, you piker, read every one of these, most were caused by failure to wear seatbelt

NIOSH Fire Fighter Fatality Investigation Reports

[Skooter92 7]

I suffered a moderate head injury, with a concussion and memory problems, from an ambulance accident where as the passenger my seatbelt was OOS. I went through the windshield, was rendered unconscious, and ended up going to a trauma center. Not fun; entirely avoidable. Not wearing a seatbelt, after almost twenty years in EMS, is stupid. I have NEVER seen a patient whose outcome was worsened or who was killed because of a seatbelt. Not once. The greater good is served by wearing them, period. If you choose not to wear either a motorcycle helmet or a seatbelt, then we as a society ought to have the option to opt out of covering your medical, disability or other expenses incurred by your refusal. Your right?....our right too.

[ajsbear 11]

I'm just curious, but how old are you?

As far as the above reply and the article posted.......

I do not understand why you would make that statement, much more in a public forum full of professionals. What you said can be applied to anything...."I don't look before crossing the street because when it's your time, it's your time". How crazy does that sound?

I would think that anyone with experience who has been to enough MVA's wouldn't make such a statement.  Seatbelts DO save lives. Proven and witnessed fact over and over.....can't tell you how many times in the ER bay we've said "Boy, if she didn't have her seatbelt on........"

If you have a death wish, don't bring it upon your brothers.

And I'm sure your company has a seatbelt policy, so if you choose not to follow safety guidelines then you have no business riding on any piece of fire apparatus. In fact, get out of the fire service, because you're probaly the type that sometimes "doesnt need" you're hood or SCBA, etc. Not wearing your seatbelt, and gloating about it, is a clear example of someone who doesn't wan't to be part of a team or follow department guideline.

Seatbelts can be dangerous, but in VERY rare instances. So can oxygen. As a firefighter, you are looked up to as a role model...if a little kid sees you not wearing one, will he think he has to wear one?

BE PROFESSIONAL AND PUT YOUR DARN SEATBELT ON! I highly suggest finding other ways to act like an idiot that don't make the fire service look bad. This guy should have had way more jail time, maybe he could learn teamwork from his jailmates.

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I think he needs to grow up. I was in an accident in 2002 and totaled my car. I walked away with just a bruse on my shoulder nothing else. I drive a firetruck and make sure before I pull out of the firehouse that everyone has a seatbelt on. I am responsable for everyone on my rig. If someone gets hurt in route or back its my fault. If you don't want to wear it, get off my rig.

[wmurpht 1]

Regardless of whether people wear them or not (same argument for helmet laws) it should still be a matter of choice, and not an act regulated by the Government.

Enforcement of common sense actions only serves to usurp civil rights.

And yes, I do wear mine - so no snide comments.

[Guest]

Regardless of whether people wear them or not (same argument for helmet laws) it should still be a matter of choice, and not an act regulated by the Government.

Enforcement of common sense actions only serves to usurp civil rights.

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So should all traffic laws designed to keep us safe be a matter of choice?

[Guest ksneubec]

So should all traffic laws designed to keep us safe be a matter of choice?

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The difference here is that laws concerning seatbelt use keep the individual safe, while most traffic laws keep the rest of us safe from individuals.

That being said, I think most people need protection from themselves. I agree with Skooter92 in that if people choose not to wear their seatbelts and helmets, maybe we as taxpayers and those who contribute to insurance should be able to not pay for their medical bills, disability, social security, etc.

[turk182 37]

Regardless of whether people wear them or not (same argument for helmet laws) it should still be a matter of choice, and not an act regulated by the Government.

Enforcement of common sense actions only serves to usurp civil rights.

And yes, I do wear mine - so no snide comments.

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Are not most all laws common sense ie murder, rape, arson, robbery, etc.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

First off, driving is a priviledge not a right. Its my right to consume alcoholic beverages to a point. Is it a violation of my "civil rights" for a limit to be set? The exact reason why we are vulnerable to international and domestic terrorism, is the exact stance of some who think priviledges allowed by our system of government are rights and that almighty world of civil rights. Is a speed limit a violation of civil rights? Why if you want to do 100 mph and not wear your seatbelt then thats your right? Lets not go out and think because of seatbelt laws we'll throw the bill of rights out the window just yet.

Second off, if you are in this business.....wear your seatbelt. You are someone whom people look up to, to set the standard. I've had this conversation with a friend who is a Paramedic, when I saw he never wore his. Whether you like it or not or want to be or not, you are a role model of soceity, at least your suppose to be. When its your time, its your time? What an ignorant, weak-minded statement. If I can take control of it, I'll extend my time, no matter whoever thinks its up to someone else or some other "higher power." Are you a firefighter? Do you wear your SCBA? Do you utilize any Survival skills out there like carrying a bail out rope? Or if in trouble would you sit there and just "ah hell it must be my time." When I was in the Marine Corps and in a firefight I didn't just say ah, hell with it, if its my time its my time. I got my a** down and tried to make it his time before it was mine.

If you're an EMS provider....do you treat patients? With your statement why bother, if its "their time."

[res6cue 67]

Here's another thought, for those of you claiming or suggesting that seatbelts are only designed to protect the wearer: If you're the driver, seatbelts are designed to keep you in your seat, which in turn gives you a much better chance of retaining control of the vehicle should something happen that might otherwise knock you out of it. This, in turn, aides in protecting not only possible occupants of your own vehicle, but other vehicles and pedestrians around you.

So no, I don't buy the whole "it should be my choice if I wanna fly through the windshield" or "you're infringing on my civil liberties" arguments. As ALS said, driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT, and with that privilege comes certain rules and laws that must be followed. Even our God given rights are governed by rules and laws, so certainly a privilege should be as well.

Edited September 9, 2006 by res6cue

[Sean11FD 3]

Theres no argument that seatbelts DO save lives. My car, or whatever motor vechicle I am riding in (firetruck, ambulance or a car) I always have my seatbelt on before that vechicle is in "D". I have (as im sure a lot of you have) seen countless RMA's and many minor injuries from MVA's from people wearing their seatbelts, and just say they didnt chose to, im sure a lot of them would have been airlifted.

I do think that is should be a Department policy to wear seatbelts when responding to calls/going back to quarters, however if someone doesnt I dont think they should be give a fine for it. Especially a volunteer fireman. These peoploe risk their lives for no other reason other than they want to help, and I think its nothing short of bullshit that this guy or any guy gets imprisoned for not wearing a seatbelt.

[helicopper 1,050]

I do think that is should be a Department policy to wear seatbelts when responding to calls/going back to quarters, however if someone doesnt I dont think they should be give a fine for it. Especially a volunteer fireman. These peoploe risk their lives for no other reason other than they want to help, and I think its nothing short of bullshit that this guy or any guy gets imprisoned for not wearing a seatbelt.

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As I understand it, the guy was imprisoned for refusing to pay the fine following a conviction in traffic court for failing to wear his seatbelt. The fine of 55 dollars could have been paid and he could have walked out the door but he opted to refuse resulting in what must have been a contempt of court situation.

His being a volunteer FF has nothing to do with it, nor should it! You're not going to get special consideration from a judge because he chooses to "risk his life" and "wants to help".

[helicopper 1,050]

"It's a matter of choice."

Interesting perspective. It's not a matter of choice when a large part of my insurance premiums are due to medical costs associated with treating people who didn't wear seatbelts or helmets (for you motorcyclists in the bunch).

Hospitals have no choice but to treat victims of accidents whose injuries are worse than they would have been if they were wearing seatbelts or helmets. Hospitals pass those costs on to us in higher costs!

Rehabilitation takes longer and is more involved for those exercising "their choice". Those costs affect us all.

So, while I'm a supporter of individual rights, I'm not so sure that this is an "individual" right!

[Skooter92 7]

Absolutely, Chris192. When your "freedoms" infringe upon mine..... If you choose to excercise your "freedom" to not wear a seatbelt or a helmet, it shouldn't infringe upon my right to reasonable health care premiums. Society shouldn't pay for a foreseeable idiocy, and your choice shouldn't be reflected in my paycheck deductions.

[wmurpht 1]

Absolutely, Chris192.  When your "freedoms" infringe upon mine.....  If you choose to excercise your "freedom" to not wear a seatbelt or a helmet, it shouldn't infringe upon my right to reasonable health care premiums. Society shouldn't pay for a foreseeable idiocy, and your choice shouldn't be reflected in my paycheck deductions.

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health care is not guarunteed in our society. move to a socialist country if you want reasonable health care costs. and not having reasonable health care costs is as much a fault of lawyers and the insurance system, not just the the inabaility to 'avoid' injuries through personal actions.

i agree as americans their should be consequence of infringing on other peoples rights, but driving without a seatbelt doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. and it especially doesn't warrant significant jail time.

but we could just become a draconian nation like some 3rd world country and just kill a person for harmless agressions.

whatever, there is such a lack of balanced judgement and common sense on this site it is unbelieveable.

[X615 0]

i wear my seatbelt as a matter of choice as a result of having seen outcomes of the alternative but it's MY choice. my problem with this whole issue is i resent the elitest nanny-state government thinking they constantly know what's best for me and trying to mandate & legislate every aspect of my life with the motivation of protecting me from myself. i'm not a 3 year old and don't need to be told what to do by a collective bunch of self-righteous, pompous blowhards burdening me with their agenda especially when you take a look at what train wrecks a lot of their personal (and some public as well) lives are. if i want to drive without a seatbelt, sky dive, mountain climb, bungee jump, smoke a cigar or eat slightly undercooked eggs it my decision and while they're all dangerous and in some cases not particularly smart they're still our choices to make and if i do any of them i'm accepting responsibility for my actions. it is impossible for this seemingly well intentioned government to step in and protect every one from everything, case in point is the ladder i recently purchased that has 17 SEVENTEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! different warning labels on it. what really drives me insane about this is the ridiculous, confusing & duplicitous message the state of connecticut gives people by actively enforcing seat belt laws but the wearing of motorcycle helmets is optional. it makes me suspicious whether they're really concerned about my well being or stumbled upon an activity with light compliance they could legislate and make some easy money off of by regulating it. like the government would never do anything like that. but that's just my opinion.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Monday, September 4, 2006

This crash of the Lebanon RFPD Engine 72 happened on September 1, 2006. It was a one vehicle rollover with the fire apparatus driver doing 55 mph on a clear, straight road when a tire blew out. The engine went off the right side of road and over corrected...and then went to left of road and overturned several times. The on going investigation has determined that speed was not a factor. The driver was treated and released with 4 staples to head and no broken bones ...THE DRIVER WAS SEAT BELTED IN...and again, seat belts do save lives.

ENOUGH SAID

[Monty 35]

what really drives me insane about this is the ridiculous, confusing & duplicitous message the state of connecticut gives people by actively enforcing seat belt laws but the wearing of motorcycle helmets is optional. it makes me suspicious whether they're really concerned about my well being or stumbled upon an activity with light compliance they could legislate and make some easy money off of by regulating it. like the government would never do anything like that. but that's just my opinion.

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Maybe, but it also maybe quantity. Think of the money being spent by hospitals, insurance companies etc on all those near fatal injuries where seatbelts aren't worn.

There's several examples on this topic of people using seatbelts and walking away with band-aids etc. Think how much money was saved and would outherwise be spent on treating patients if they hadn't worn seatbelts. With the sheer quantity of car occupants think how much money is saved by paying all those lobbyists to get the law passed.

Maybe with motorbikes the helmet doesn't make that much difference. In fact maybe accidents are more costly if a helmet is worn?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Do helmets help..absolutely statistics can prove it. Does it make sense...nah $hit happens. But there are a lot more MVA's then motorcycle accidents. Plus when the helmet often keeps the head intact for the mush inside.