Are Construction Workers Trying To Kill Us?

[x635 4,066]

Are Constructioon Workers Trying To Kill Us?

http://www.fireemsalpha.com/node/50

It pisses me off, I see more and more dangerous construction sites and wonder if the local FD's know aboutt hem or even care. Sure, construction sites are dangerous, but they don't have to be, and we can take simple steps to keep ourselves safe if we ever have to respond just by knowing whats going on.

Hey, and if you like this article, can you pass along the link to anyone who may be interested? We're trying to get the word out to the local area that FireEMSAlpha.com is up and running.

We're also looking for writers if you're interested in sharing whatever knowledge you may have. .

(Full Disclosure: The artice on FireEMSAlpha.com was written by me x635)

[robert benz 344]

Are Constructioon Workers Trying To Kill Us?

http://www.fireemsalpha.com/node/50

It pisses me off, I see more and more dangerous construction sites and wonder if the local FD's know aboutt hem or even care. Sure, construction sites are dangerous, but they don't have to be, and we can take simple steps to keep ourselves safe if we ever have to respond just by knowing whats going on.

Hey, and if you like this article, can you pass along the link to anyone who may be interested? We're trying to get the word out to the local area that FireEMSAlpha.com is up and running.

We're also looking for writers if you're interested in sharing whatever knowledge you may have. .

(Full Disclosure: The artice on FireEMSAlpha.com was written by me x635)

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Not to be a wise a** but has your dept notified OSHA of the multitude of VIOLATIONS? Or Your town code enforcement personal?

[x635 4,066]

Not to be a wise a**  but has your dept notified OSHA of the multitude of VIOLATIONS? Or Your town code enforcement personal?

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As I mentioned in the article. the town building department and other appropriate notifications were made by our officers and the those who were notified handled the situation from there. There was a follow up call made, but I don't know if any violations or the such were issued.

The site today has "cleaned up its act", but is still dangerous and we visit it every night tour in my group. And there are many other construction sites out there across this region that warrant the building department and OSHA intervention, that a lot of firefighters don't even know exist in their communities.

[Guest]

I would like to make another suggeesstion. Your department may or may not have acted on it. I lived in the area for over 30 years before moving to North Carolina.

Consider the fact that you may not be the first engine due. The way the fire district and the town/city lines run in that area, Fairview and / or White Plains might be the first unit on the scene.

My suggestion is to do a dual department ride through with them to make them aware of the problems.

[ny10570 745]

Hate to nit pick, but is it really construction workers trying to kill ff's. I'm sure the carpenters and steel workers are out there doing this for shits and giggles. How about blaming the people responsible; the project managers and property owners.

[Skooter92 7]

OSHA is a paper tiger. Try getting them to actually come out and cite anything. Sure, they'll send out a letter suggesting in the least offensive of terms that you might have something less than wonderful on your worksite. Unless someone dies/gets mangled/shows up on News 12.........don't count on them for much.

[JustSomeGuy 0]

I wouldnt say construction workers. Construction workers are just skilled tradesmen (hopefully) trying to earn a decent living usually getting underpaid and working in harsh conditions so they can feed their family. I believe the battle is with engineers, architechs, real estate investors, more of the big business. I have always been a supporter of the working class. Think about light weight construction its not the worker who is killing us when the trusses fail, its the S.O.B. who figured out he can build a house with half the $$ and material and sell it for the same price. That is my two cents. Unfortunately the new home owners of today do not know the difference, they see the large open rooms inside the house no the inevitable danger.

[x242Steve 1]

Hate to nit pick, but is it really construction workers trying to kill ff's.  I'm sure the carpenters and steel workers are out there doing this for shits and giggles.  How about blaming the people responsible; the project managers and property owners.

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Agreed! It is an unfortunate truth, but on too many job sites a majority of the laborers who "hammer the final nail", so to speak, have absolutely no clue about basic concepts like point loading, shear, fire stops, etc... I have seen it all too many times in my capacities as a carpenter and as a firefighter. Management is only worried about the bottom line, and so they hire cheap labor, forgetting that many steps in the building process are ultimately critical to life safety.

Again, this is not true of every job site. Its the usual story, someone has to get hurt or killed before changes are made... Sounds like a training issue that has been discussed on this site many times... and it translates from one profession to the next.

[bmfd231 3]

To claim that construction workers are trying to kill ff's is a bit much and an irresponsible statement. Based on the way that 635 wrote this article, you should never dig a hole to build a building, never have any construction equipment on the site and never throw garbage in the dumpster, how pristine and how nieve. What are the cheap and shoody construction techniques used here, did not see any pix's for 635 to back his claim. Yes, a site should be secure and closed off so that others can't wonder on the site and it should be kept orderly, but holes are dug on construction sites, heavy equipment is used, piles of garbage will develop and some of it will be conbustable. In short, construction sites, big or small are dangerous places. They are places where anyone who goes on site must be careful and take precautions, especially firefighters. His officers are smart to pay attention to the dangers and maintain a plan of attact should something happen.

This article also contradicts the articles on the Ardsley firehouse demo. I see in the pictures that all the same dangers exist here, piles of garbage and combustables and soon to be holes galor for the new foundations. But these articles are only posiive with no complaint. I don't get it, where is the consistency?

My feeling is we need substance in these blogs, not sensational rantings.

[x635 4,066]

To claim that construction workers are trying to kill ff's is a bit much and an irresponsible statement.   Based on the way that 635 wrote this article, you should never dig a hole to build a building, never have any construction equipment on the site and never throw garbage in the dumpster, how pristine and how nieve.  What are the cheap and shoody construction techniques used here, did not see any pix's for 635 to back his claim.  Yes, a site should be secure and closed off so that others can't wonder on the site and it should be kept orderly, but holes are dug on construction sites, heavy equipment is used, piles of garbage will develop and some of it will be conbustable.  In short, construction sites, big or small are dangerous places.  They are places where anyone who goes on site must be careful and take precautions, especially firefighters.  His officers are smart to pay attention to the dangers and maintain a plan of attact should something happen. 

This article also contradicts the articles on the Ardsley firehouse demo. I see in the pictures that all the same dangers exist here, piles of garbage and combustables and soon to be holes galor for the new foundations.  But these articles are only posiive with no complaint.  I don't get it, where is the consistency?

My feeling is we need substance in these blogs, not sensational rantings.

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Hmmm. I would think you didn't even read my article, or severly misread it, yet you seemed to pick up on a point or two.

In short, construction sites, big or small are dangerous places.  They are places where anyone who goes on site must be careful and take precautions, especially firefighters.  His officers are smart to pay attention to the dangers and maintain a plan of attact should something happen. 

I'm sorry, you felt is was a "sensational" ranting, and you looked for faults in the article and me. I'm also puzzled by some of your inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your reply. The title was sensational, but it was to make you think and to catch readers. You accuse me of "sensational ranting", "inconsistencies", "having no substance", "being irresponsible" etc. yet don't provide any information to back up your claims, other then implying that everyone should just assume constructions sites are dangerous and that I'm an idiot for trying to bring some points of construction site dangers to peoples attention.

To claim that construction workers are trying to kill ff's is a bit much and an irresponsible statement.  .  What are the cheap and shoody construction techniques used here, did not see any pix's for 635 to back his claim. .

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If you've been following the recent tragedy in the Bronx that claimed two firefighters and injured more in the Bronx, preliminary information is that cheap and shoddy construction with poor oversight from the responsible agencies contributed to the floor collapse, and ultimately, these FDNY firefighters deaths. That's the "cheap and shoddy" construction I was referencing. Although there are many safe and responsible construction workers out there, there are many fly-by-night, poorly trained or experienced ones that, because of their actions to work quick and make a profit, pose a direct danger to us.

Of course I don't think construction workers are directly trying to kill firefighters, but I do strongly feel, although that all construction sites are dangerous, that some are uneccarily dangerous and do not have to be that way. I'm not saying that construction sites should be clean and orderly, just as safe as possible for the benefit of all involved. Sloppy construction kills, and creates uneccesary work for Fire, EMS, and Police agencies.

As for your accusations about the "contradictions" with the Ardsley site/article, which had nothing to do with this article and was not mentioned. Bringing the Ardsley blog entry into this was completly irrelevant and unccesary, and again makes me question your motives whether you are actually replying to this article or have a bone to pick with me. The Ardsley site perimiter was well fenced off and much cleaner...and much different. In case you didn't notice, it was a complete demolition site. This was about this one site in partiucular, and had nothing to do with the other numerous construction projects I am following, except in my mind where I noted how much safer the other sites were then this site that I am talking about.

Since my officers took action, the site I was referencing in my article has cleaned up it's act considerably. I will provide some more photos of this construction site where there are many dangers to firefighters that aren't neccesary. Some others not photographed include such things as uncapped rebar, exposed live wiring,hidden trenches, poorly secured walls, men working in large trenches over their head with no ladder, bent trussses from demolition that aren't being repaired, etc.. This site was wide open. Homeless people were wandering past the back of the site at night, consuming alcohol during the evening.

Here, this hole was left wide open during a dormant holiday weekend. It goes down eight feet into water, and this opening is not marked in any way, shape or form...no cone, nothing. At nighttime, you can't see it. When the photo was taken, the area was not fenced off, and it's behind a major shopping center with some pedestrians transversing through the site. What is so hard about placing caution tape or saftey faence around this until ther cover is placed on? This remains like this. This is an unceccesary danger in my opinion on a construction site that is a real easy fix.

[attachmentid=1237]

Here, we found a scuttle obstructed. This could possibly save an inhabitants live sometime down the road.

[attachmentid=1238]

A difficult to access sprinkler connection (which was needed for the rest of the strip mall not under construction)

[attachmentid=1239]

A trench where workers were working over their heads earlier in the day

[attachmentid=1240]

I stay strong in my OPINION hat first dues should stay familiar with construction projects in their area. There are uneccesary dangers on a construction site, and firefighters should try to stay familar with them and remediate them whereever possibe. If there are things that can cause me to go home minus a brother...if I have to use strong words to bring the issue to peoples attention to prevent that, then I will. Yeah, of course this job is dangerous no matter what, but awareness of the danger and elimination of as many dangers as possible is in all of our best interest...and this includes the public. It's our job to keep them safe too.

In closing, construction workers have a tough job, and a lot of the times what they do puts us in danger, and they don't even realize it. It's part of our job to know these dangers, and try to educate these workers and ourselves to prevent tragedy. I don't appreciate the way my article was replied too, and all the accusations made toward me and the site. It seems there was more of an issue with the author and the site. If you're calling me nieve, and saying that you are complacent with construction sites being dangerous, then someone needs to seriously rethink his position.

[Guest]

Wow, BMFD231 you came across very harsh and I too don't understand your point or reasoning? I don't think the article was written malicously, yet your reply clearly was.

As a career firefighter in southern Westchester that has a lot of diverse construction sites, I totally understand where x635 is coming from. Good article, and definitelty brings up some points to remember. I'm enjoying the articles on FireEMSAlpha a lot, and keep up the good work! Don't let a few people with poor attittudes discourage you, I want to see more!

[Guest]

BMFD231, did you even read the article? You're contradicting yourself.

And, if you don't consider firefighter safety "substance", then what do you consider "substance"????

[bmfd231 3]

Thank you, now you have added, by way of your response to me, what should have been in your original article. Your response brought focus to the reasoning behind your article and why you made the claims you did. I was not attacting you, trying to trash your site nor do I have a bone to pick with you but I felt your article was unsubstanciated and incomplete. A walk around one site and one short sighted contractor should not result in blame on a whole industry. We have government to do that.

Constuction workers are not to blame for these dangerous sites, Construction companies and their owners are. Do they consider firefighters, I doubt it.

Your article deals with two main points, dangerous work sites and shoddy construction and they really are two very different issues, I would think two separate articles.

Are work site hazzards preventable, yes, but only if the contractor makes it part of his daily routine. What was the result of your officers complaint to the towns code enforcement office? What did they require the contractor to do and was he issued any violations? Do you consider that the site would now be safe with what was done were you to fight a fire on this property now?

In closing, I have nothing against you. In fact I have enjoyed your various photo's over the years and hope that they continue in the future.

As you correctly state, there are alot of fly-by-night companies out there and some who are legitimate who fall in the same category. Do you realize that all you need to get a license in Westchester is to give them $300 bucks and a certificate of Insurance and you got a license (they just want the money). No test to make sure that they guy actually knows how to do this work, as is required of electricians and plumbers, which brings me to the second focus of your article, shoddy workmanship.

Shoddy workmanship can have a wide meaning to it. It can mean that the molding is poorly done or it can mean that the structure is unsound. There are many different levels of contractor out there, many who understand structural work, and others who do not and do it anyway. It is just not simple to say that an industry is to blame. I agree with you that more can be done to make any worksite and safe place, not just for firefighters, but for the guys that work there.

So as you can see, there is alot more to it. With your response to me, you have advanced this article closer to completion. The last step is to use your article to teach and to point out how we can be safe on these worksites. Develop solutions that we can all discuss openly. Make us want to think about the solution.

[truckie45 1]

I just want to say, I am a construction worker, and its not always the construction workers that make a construction site dangerous. Management hires non educated people to build stuff around construction sites. Your goverment can be thanked for that on to. I have been working in construction for many years and Things do need to be safe but workers need to stay alert and make sure they come home everyday. SO NO I DON'T BELEIVE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS ARE TRYING TO KILL US. OSHA, OSHA, OSHA

[Guest alsfirefighter]

What is he in court? No pictures to prove his claims? Well I now his character and I've gotten to train him so I never doubted he would come up with this on his own and give opiniated editorials which is how I perceived that piece.

As a person whom writes articles himself, I welcome all input to assist me in becoming a better writer on fire and ems topics, I was glad to see you gave a little input on that, being you thought it should have been 2 articles. However, it is a sight for anyone to write on a topic and he wrote what he thought was a good topic.

As far as calling it irresponsible for some of the statements. I don't have a problem with it. It was edgy and strong and the title alone I'm sure got people to read it.

Do constructions workers make the lightweight materials, of course not, engineers come up with this crap and manufacturers make it. Are they really trying to kill us, nah, but as I said it was edgy in title and tone and I like that. Are some things they do put us and the public and immediate danger..absolutely. Is it the mangagement company that dumps trusses and TGI's on the ground exposed to the weather prior to being put up? Nope..its the workers. Are they the ones who improperly hoist these marvels of engineering to their places?...nope the workers. Are they the ones whom punch holes to run whatever and not seal them creating horizontal/vertical voids for fire extension? Or is it the code enforcement officials fault for not finding it quick enough? Nope again. Do they probably take us into account? Of course not, but we take them into account in the same regard if it is a hazard to them or one of them become entrapped or entangled.

Shoddy construction and shoddy construction practices create shoddy work sites. Sounds like a match to me. As far as asking what the code enforcement did after notificaton. That is FYI, and may not have been done by the time the article was written.

Yes his officers are smart for taking note. And he is even smarter for doing so..while it is officers responsibility to ensure everyone's safety, it is the individuals utmost responsibility to ensure this even more in the event someone else isn't. He started the solution by pointing out that they were doing a walk through which can start a great pre-plan.

635 I thought you're "op ed" article was good. The title was catchy and it presented your views well.