Take EMS out of DCFD?

[Truck4 48]

D.C. Mayoral Candidate Pledges to Split Fire and EMS

............ 

AMY DOOLITTLE

The Washington Times

Adrian M. Fenty says that, as D.C. mayor, he would create a Department of Emergency Medical Services and end the city's 15-year-old troubled effort to combine EMS operations with those of the fire department.

"In this city, having a fire department and having EMS under it just has left EMS out of the priority line," Mr. Fenty said during an interview with editors and reporters at The Washington Times.

"It's just a nightmare - training and priorities and focus," he said. "You should be able to focus more on EMS."

Mr. Fenty, Ward 4's representative on the D.C. Council, is seeking the Democratic nomination for mayor in the Sept. 12 primary.

Separating EMS from the fire department would allow the city to create "two really well-run agencies, and neither agency would have to suffer," he said without providing details about how he would effect such a change.

[Amato122 0]

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Great idea, can't wait until they do this in NYC and elsewhere...too bad it will never happen. There will never be a major city FD that will give up EMS, there is too much money to be made and the IAFF is too involved. As far as I'm concerned EMS and suppression are two totally different things, just don't make that argument with commisioners and union leaders. I'm sure most rank and file FF's, medic's and EMT's will agree.

[Guest]

IT'S ABOUT TIME , it just dosent work it dosent mean one side is better than the other it just dosent work, I think it was JEMS that did an article on how it isnt working I just hope everyone gets thier heads straight and see's what it is thank god boston EMS is still health and hospitals............

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Saying it just doesn't work is a broad blanket statement and just isn't true. It works if you have leadership and management committed to make it work operationally and attitudenly.

As a firefighter and I don't know if I necessarily fit into the rank and file category because I embrace change and customer service, will agree that EMS and suppression are two different things. There isn't anyone that couldn't agree they are two seperate beasts. But that doesn't mean that fire based ems doesn't and can't work, there are many very good, proficient, cutting edge FD based ems systems out there. And it has been proven that tiered response systems for EMS increase out of hospital cardiac arrest resuscitations.

[IzzyEng4 427]

The problem comes down to managment of the FD. Fire department EMS services in my opinion should have thier own operations and administrative chiefs that answer to the Chief of the Department and Commissioners. I think having a separated division, like say a special operations division, marine division, ect, whould benefit the EMS services provided by fire departments. This way havinf separate administrators for EMS can effectively concentrate on first responder, basic and advanced life support training and operations for a department. I also beleive that a separate training division for EMS in a fire department would be more effective. This is one aspect.

We already know that EMS as a separate unit / organization from a fire department works by looking at all separate EMS agencies that are around.

I hate to see DCFD lose EMS but the problem is will it soulve their problems??? I really don't think so because if they split the problems will follow and it may not resolve the issue since many of which who run it would still be there. Could the management be a problem, maybe but who knows. Reguardless if with or separate, EMS should be funded separately for thier operations. I think this would help alot also so they can spend the proper amount of funds for taining all emergency services workers.

Maybe they should create a city Emergency Services Council with separate Fire, PD EMS, Ect. division that each chief has to answer to, more so as an ovesite committee that knows the differences of each department and their specific needs.

Who knows what will work.

[ny10570 745]

I agree with ALS. Fire and EMS working together best serves the needs of the public. Forcible entry, extrication, technical rescue, and just extra hands are all best provided by fire. On top of this, every fire emergency has a significant potential for creating patients. In my opinion, FDNY is actually on the right track. Below chief of the dept fire and EMS have completely seperate leadership. So long as the two stay seperate and they stop trying to move EMS into fire houses and don't try and make ff's ride ambulances the system actually has a good chance.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Izzy, much of your comments covers my thoughts and ideas.

Whatever needs to be done to make it work, needs to be accomplished.

I often say to anyone performing EMS, but particulary FD based EMS and those FD's whom just do BLSFR....do it the right way, or don't do it all. You make every FD out there striving to do it right, be the best and be role models down with you. It only takes 1 screw up to erase 99 atta boys. RIP Jim Page and thanks for all those talks and lunch that one day.

Again it starts from the top. It also starts with politicians getting involved and wanting and pursuing an understanding of all its emergency services operations and taking an active part in the supervision or oversight of them. A Fire Chief, whom has no EMS training or experience, cannot effectively manage or provide leadership over a FD that provides EMS. Regardless if there are person put in positions that answers to him to oversee the operation and so forth. That Chief generally will not have a grasp of what is needed, compared to those whom answer to him/her for fire suppression needs or concerns. Do you need operational supervisors to handle the day to day operations? Of course adn the right people need to be in the right place, but all of the management team needs to have the field/street experience to manage correctly.

You want to fix DCFD. Sometimes a shake up is needed. The best way to evaluate where you are when you know (or think) you have problems. Then to do what is needed to change culture and fix it. Is to bring a qualified and respected person from outside that department from a agency that has similiar demographics. Does a GM or owner of a professional sports team that isn't performing the way they feel it should, fire the head coach and then generally hire someone from the coaching staff in? Very rarely, its a new coach with a new system. Why are we different?

[Guest]

I still dont see why EMS should be attached to any one other than EMS, if you look at every reason you have for why it should be attached , you can answer it with more EMS personel. If I have a job that has several critical patients i need additional EMS personel, this is not to belittle anyone especially brave and courageous FF's. If you are fighting a serious fire wouldnt you want trained and EXPERIENCED PERSONELL? I know you guys dont want to hear it but EMS would benifet from its own leadership,its own budget,its own training,its own customer service. I dont honestly believe if FD's were as busy as say they were in NYC in the 70's they would want anything to do with EMS, ask yourself what has changed since then (this is not knocking anyone). Ihave been doing this noble career to close to 16 years my heart and soul are in it,If you are serious about doing what is best for the patient you should help EMS to grow and evolve into the orginization that it shoud be .There is plenty of work for us all.........

[Guest]

This topic goes to a little project, I have been working on. I wonder if some of you (als and peds)might read this article and comment on it. The link would not load but here it is

www.rppi.org/htg14.pdf

its dated back to 1995 but right on topic about public vs private ems service

thanks

[Guest alsfirefighter]

PED, yes I would want trained personnel on the fireground and you always have those who are gaining experience. But I don't really get the point, only trained EMS providers touch my patients and all the FF/EMT's I work with are experienced or when they get hired, if they haven't worked somewhere else we get them on the road to get some. The FF/Paramedics I work with are all very experienced EMS providers.

Tanker I'll check it out.