Extrication Tools

[57truck 1]

What extrication tools do you think works the best at pin jobs?? The combi-tool is a great item, but only can be used to a certain extent due to limitations on the cutting and spreading force that each different brand has on its tool. Whats your input on spreaders, cutters, rams etc.?????

[Remember585 815]

I've worked with Hurst tools since getting into the FD in 1992. I have never run into any major problems, but I feel that they are a little heavy. Recently, I have used Lukas tools and find them to be lighter, but they don't seem to have that "umpth" Hurst has. Maybe someone out there can shed more light.

[Guest DG795]

extrication is one of those things that is more of an art then a science. One guy may like a certain technique, another guy will like something different, and they both think the other is wrong. I try to always keep in mind that my way may not be the only way. There are A LOT of little tricks out there that can make the job much easier, and they arent taught in a classroom, so I share little tips and techniques I have been shown, I the hopes that others will do the same for me. As far as the tools go, I am a fan of the roadrunner combo tool, which if used properly can roll down two doors and a B post without other tools. If you are dealing with a heavy rescue, such as a commercial truck, throw the roadrunner under the wheels, b/c that is all it is good for in that situation. Only the heavier spreaders and cutters will make any real headway. However I dont believe that tools are the most important thing for a pin job. A coordinated effort with a good B or C plan will get the job done. I have seen FD's and PD's more concerned with beating each other at cutting than removing the patient.

[Truck4 48]

Really? Maybe the FD's and PD's feel they need to get the victim out faster to try and make up for the time it takes for Empress to finally show up.

[Guest DG795]

Nobody said it was yonkers. I am actually speaking of experiences outside westchester county.

[x635 4,066]

The best tool(s) in extrication is compassion, training,skill, and interagency cooperation. We're there for the PATIENT, ultimately, and in alot of cases that is lost in the "excitment" of an extrication. Being an EMS provider that has had the chance to work pin jobs with several different agencies,as well as a FF doing the extrication, I've seen many different situation. The BEST extrication is the ones where everybody can put aside their own egos and (for lack of a better word) personal agenda (i.e. fighting over the tool,putting on a show, i dont like this person or agency and so on) and care about the PERSON, the human being inside the vehicle. THATS WHO YOUR THERE FOR.

Also, people sometimes get tunnel vision at bad MVA's. I once had a FD ready to cut the drivers side door and roof off, (Didn't even ask EMS what they wanted to do, how they wanted to remove the patient) . Meanwhile, while they were preparing, we removed the potentially unstable pt easily and quickly off the bench seat on the passenger side door, despite the FF's protesting that they "had to" cut the car in order to get the patient out. As I was once taught in a EMS course, "Least Invasive to Most Invasive" and "You dont use a daisycutter to kill an ant"

*Edit*BTW, forgot to add we later saw the same car in the body shop getting repaired, something that might not have applied if the car was cut. That fact shouldnt neccasarily be the first in your mind, but just an interesting tidbit.

But I guess I'm going a little off topic, the discussion was about the tools after all. 8)

[Truck4 48]

I'm sure you were.

[x635 4,066]

Is Lukas still sold, or did Hurst absorb the brand completly? I was using Lukas at AFD, and the tools were great. Don't really have much experience with any other brand.

[57truck 1]

What Brand of extrication tools does your department use??

Bedford Hills and Katonah use LUKAS

Bedford Village has Amkus on Rescue 44 and Hurst Cutter and Spreader on MA7

Mt. Kisco uses Hurst

Yorktown uses Hurst

Who else??

[Guest PMDFFD]

Dobbs Ferry has hurst to ossining, irvington, hastings, almost every one has hurst, or lukas tools in this county

[Guest]

I HAVE USED LUCAS,HURST AND AMKUS.

AMKUS WHEN I TOOK MY INNITIAL TRAING CLASSS THROUGH NYS WHEN THEY HAD THE ROVING VAN AND INSTRUCTOR.

I USED LUCAS IN MONTROSE AS WELLL THEY WERE NICE AND LIGHT

AMKUS DIDNN'T SEEM TO HOLD UP. WE BROKE THEM THE FIRST NIGHT

I USED HURST SEVERAL DIFFERENT PLACES. THOUGH THEY ARE HEAVIER THEY HOLD UP THE BEST

NEVER HAVE SEEN A HURST TOOL BREAK. I CANN'T SAY THE SAME FOR AMKUS OR LUCUS

[Fed124 0]

Lucas and Hurst are the "Big 2" on the market. We choose Lucas becasue of the excellent service and support we receive from Matt and the crew at AAA Emergency Supply. Lucas and Hurst are now owned by the same company.

[x635 4,066]

I got to agree with JJL. I got to give Matt props too. When we got our Lukas tools, he came to our FD and we got some excellent training on the tools.

Alot of what you buy and get out of the tool depends on the dealer. It's nice to have one that not only knows how to sell the tool, but how it works and how to use it.

[RES20CUE 40]

In Somers, we use Hurst, and always have, but we are looking into other brands for replacements with our new RES20CUE.

Lukas was bought out by Hurst and now goes by the name of Hurst Centurian.

Hurst is definitly heavy! We use State-Line for our service, and never had a problem. Great Service and Emergency repair too.

Let me ask you guys a question- If you were to purchase a new set of tools today, what would you buy- Hurst, Centurian or Amkus?

[57truck 1]

Hurst and Centurian make really good tools. Has any1 used Holmatro Tools, or know of any departments in the county that use them. I've seen alot of advertising for them alot lately, just curious if any1 has any input on them??? :mrgreen:

[57truck 1]

Also, wat extrication tools do you keep pre-connected on you rig?? We recently change having the combi-tool and cutter preconnected to having the big spreader and cutter pre-connected.

[chris498 31]

Katonah has a Spreader and a Cutter pre-connected on our on-board unit. We also own a portable unit and a combi-tool along with a ram, so we can if need operate up to four tools at the same time. We own Lukas tools, I think one of the deciding factors for our selection was the weight of the tool.... Lukas tools at the time we purchased ours in 1999 were the very lite, making them very easy to operate..... decreasing user fatigue which can become an issue when you are conserned with time, and also when you are working perhaps with a skeleton crew. If I were a chief today buying a new set of tools, I'd say I'd go with the Lukas again. They have been very reliable, easy to use and maintain.

[Guest PMDFFD]

Holmatro is the best there is right now. i been to ever class from hurst to powerhalk and ive broke a hurst tool and seen others just stop working. besides holmatro hurst is the best but only some of there tools are good. alot of them suck and can't cut alot of parts of a car. Holmatro has the best schooling and hands on program in the market right know there the only company thats comes out and give's you an advanced course when buying the tools.

[msm232 69]

Lukas and Hurst are owned by the same corporation " IDEX " , the very same who owns Hale......Lukas is NOT out of business, and was not bought out by Hurst. IDEX forced Hurst and Lukas into a marketing agreement for distribution in the United States. To cut a long story short....Hurst was losing market share to High pressure tool lines like Lukas, Holmatro, Amkus and TNT. Mineral Oil tools that run at 10K psi are lighter, faster and safer then the antiquated Hurst Tools. It's like comparing apples and oranges! Hurst has the name...It was the first tool in the US much like Kleenx and Xerox. While Hurst was spending mucho amounts of money on the " Jaws of Life " Campaign, companies like Lukas spent tons of money on engineering the tools to out perform Hurst. Side by Side - High pressure Tools in the Hands of similar experienced FF'S will out gun the low pressure Tools. Every where else in the world .....Lukas is Lukas...Check it out for yourself... www.lukas.de. Oh and by the way....Before Hurst started marketing the centurian tools.......every new product that was introduced in the prior 5 years was made or given to hurst by lukas. FD's in Westchester using Lukas:

South Salem

Bedford Hills

Katonah

West Harrison

Purchase - 3 Sets

Fairview

Yonkers - 5 Sets

New Rochelle

Larchmont

Town Of Mamaroneck

Village Of Mamaroneck - Ladder 21?

Montrose

Peekskill

Vista

Valhalla

Thornwood

Millwood

Hastings

Armonk

North White Plains

Greenburgh PD

Stay safe and keep your head down.

[mstrang1 213]

Ardsley uses Lukas as well

[msm232 69]

Sorry, and my my favorite rescue-engine in the county- Ardsley

It's hard getting old....

Stay Safe and keep your head down.

[CM36 4]

I have used Lukas and hurst and i like lukas a lot better. They are a lighter and they respond faster i feel

[SHAC7301 0]

Sleepy Hollow FD is switching to Holmatro. Most of Holmatro's tools are NFPA and UL listed..fairly tough tests/certifications. I love Hurst, but they are pretty heavy for prolonged extrications and for manpower depleted departments. Holmatro gives you the same power and toughness, but with much less weight. We have done hands-on with Hurst, Lukus, PowerHawk, Amkus and Hurst.....We will be keeping two Hurst systems in service on two of our engines (E-86 & E-85).......E-87 and R-12 will have the new Holmatros. Every unit, minus the TL, will have extrication tools by the summer.

[PVFD113 6]

Anybody own or use Holmatro Tools that could give me some input as to their performance??

We are currently looking at purchasing a replacement set of tools for our new rig. We currently have 2 full sets of Lukas and have had minimal problems with them BUT they are about 15 to 20 years old and have definately done their share of work. The pumps are old school single stage and just don't have the ummph anymore. We had Garrison Fire Equipment come down and demo Holmatro and were considering having maybe Amkus, Hurst, or Centaur do the same. I was told that Centaur is the new name given to the Lukas line by the new parent company which owns Hurst as well. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[DOC22 1]

At Croton Falls we have had AMKUS for years. They work well and we've had minimal problems. I recommend that route.

[TRUCK6018 50]

We had the Curtis-Wright Powerhawk for a demo earlier in the week. While it doesn't have the power that Amkus, Hurst or Lukas have. It works great for vehicle extrication.

Not a bad pick for a secondary or back-up tool.

[Remember585 815]

Its been rumored that my Department has two Holmatro HCT3120 tools on order, one for E118 and one for E119. The tools are primarily for the use of the FAST to use in tight areas and locations where a portable pump unit may not be accessible. This will put a combi-tool on all three engines, and R18 will still have all the "heavy equipment."

More info on this tool can be found here:

http://products.holmatro-usa.com/details.a...hot&tid=HCT3120

If anybody has info or theories to share, please do. I am all ears.

[CFD320 35]

Our Holomatro combi tool was put into service (E-118) about two weeks ago. All I can say is WOW! For a manual power tool it really kicks A$$. It is very light which makes it ultra manuverable, the handle swivels 360 degrees so you can certainly use it almost anywhere. I will not tell you it works as fast as a powered tool, because it doesn't. But after you factor in the set up time, it is probably pretty close. For a simple door pop it is the nuts......give me this tool a sawsall and three guys with some expirience, and most any pin job can be handeled.

Looking forward to using powered Halmatro tools....

[Guest skibum]

Chappaqua has Hurst tools, combination tool and cutter are preconnected to 100' lines. Have portable motor, full size spreader and 3 rams. I have used some other tools in training but don't have enough experience with them to give an opinion. I can tell you I am happy with the Hurst tools. They might be heavy but they have never failed us. Never had a problem with a tool breaking or failing to operate properly. We also use Stateline for service of our tools and are pleased with their service.

As for the sawsall - wonderful tool for extrication. We have a couple of cordless ones and there is no faster, easier way to cut door posts than a cordles sawsall (just be carefule where you cut, look first).

[Guest res40cue]

on rescue 40 from port chester we have 1 big spreaders hooked up at all times,everything else must be hooked up at the scene..1 big hurst spreaders,new gold series cutters,28 inch spreaders,3 rams,1 porta power,2 saw salls,1 portable generater,2 inboard generaters that are hook to manifolds tht are on both driver and passenger sides of the truck.all of are tools are bought and repaired by state line hurst who ha been great to us.we also have various air hammers,air powered jack hammer,air powered chissels,full assortment of small air tools,full set of hurst air bags,20,000 pounds winch with all kinds of towing chains and straps for reacovery and rollover calls,two night scan 6000 watt light towers,are generater forall power if an inboard that runs off the trans,and it is a 40,000watt if anyone has any questions just write me