KME Good Or Bad?

[bmfd231 3]

You have to remember that each of these trucks are custom made to each departments spec's. Becasue of that, you are bound to have problems regardless of who you buy from. The key is not whether they can build it, as most look into when doing due diligence, but what kind of post purchase service department and commitment they have to resolving problems

We purchased 2005 KME mid mount last June with the Preditor Cab and no pump. We have had our share of problems, in fact many! The truck has been out to KME twice, once last summer for two weeks and recently for 6 weeks. It also spent three weeks at Ruscon late last year. Up until the recent visit to KME, post purchase service was non existent. It was a battle to get any repairs. Many of the initial problems were poorly routed wires and hose along with loose screws and computer problems/programming. Ultimately it came down to mostly aerial and jacking problems caused by computers. The most recent trip to KME was the most productive we have had all year. They made many changes, ran the aerial over 26 hours to get it right. They fixed all but two items on our very long list and it appears, with just a few more programming issues, most of the problems are gone.

Ultimately, I believe KME makes a strong truck and it is well made. The mechanics I have spoken to over the last year claim it is one of the more sturdy trucks made on the market. Most of our problems have been with the new ICAN computer. There have been lots of bugs to work out. KME has finally made a commitment to deal with post production trucks with a new Service Manager. He seems committed to getting the problems solved.

[Guest WolfEMT]

Let's just put it this way: they're not called "Keep Mechanics Employed" for nothing. KME is to fire trucks what P&L Custom is to ambulances. (My dept. just got 2 new P&L Trucks about a month ago - one has been back to P&L 4 times already for the same thing, and the other has electrical shorts all over the place; but that's a story for a different day...)

[Doc 11]

...and for the record, if you look in the county you are from, E-Ones out number Sutphen about 6 to 1, give or take a few...

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I can't help it if certain big departments have bad taste and small budgets! LOL (Joke). Seriously though:

E-one pumpers are fine no-frills workhorses. They offer plenty of durability and features for a reasonable price. Unfortunately it seems they are plagued with a lot of old horror stories. The big one was the galvanic corrosion thing. It took E-one a few years of spontaneously disassembling trucks to figure out that attaching uncoated aluminum panels with steel screws and bolts is a BAD IDEA. But they've learned.

Generally it seems to take them a little while to learn new things.

For example, when we were spec'ing out our tower ladder we looked at E-one's midmount. It was obvious that they had just entered the mid-mount market. A lot of poor welding and sloppy extrusions on the boom. It looked like their shop people figured it out as they went along. Seriously it looked like something the kids in shop class cooked up. That and there were too many exposed wiring harnasses at crucial points where they could get snagged or pulled. It was promising, but, again, they needed to iron out a lot of half-baked fabrication problems before we bought one.

I also have a grudge against E-one for killing the BEST RESCUE BODY MANUFACTURER EVER - Saulsbury.

Any fire truck I've worked around has had problems. As long as the manufacturer can remedy the situation in reasonable time and without risking lives, I think any truck will serve well.

[Guest]

I can't help it if certain big departments have bad taste and small budgets!  LOL (Joke).  Seriously though:

E-one pumpers are fine no-frills workhorses.  They offer plenty of durability and features for a reasonable price.  Unfortunately it seems they are plagued with a lot of old horror stories.  The big one was the galvanic corrosion thing.  It took E-one a few years of spontaneously disassembling trucks to figure out that attaching uncoated aluminum panels with steel screws and bolts is a BAD IDEA.  But they've learned. 

Generally it seems to take them a little while to learn new things.

For example, when we were spec'ing out our tower ladder we looked at E-one's midmount.  It was obvious that they had just entered the mid-mount market.  A lot of poor welding and sloppy extrusions on the boom.  It looked like their shop people figured it out as they went along. Seriously it looked like something the kids in shop class cooked up.  That and there were too many exposed wiring harnasses at crucial points where they could get snagged or pulled.  It was promising, but, again, they needed to iron out a lot of half-baked fabrication problems before we bought one.

I also have a grudge against E-one for killing the BEST RESCUE BODY MANUFACTURER EVER - Saulsbury. 

Any fire truck I've worked around has had problems.  As long as the manufacturer can remedy the situation in reasonable time and without risking lives, I think any truck will serve well.

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[Guest]

We have a 1997 KME Renegade pumper. The compartment doors need to be adjusted often. the electrical components are not the highest quality. And the brakes and front springs seem undersized. I just doesn't feel as solid as some of the other brands in our Dept. That said it's a very nimble engine. Pumps well, and has always worked well when called upon.

[Sean11FD 3]

KME's are nice. My department has a few of them and were getting another one that is being built right now from what i know. They seem pretty reliable, theyve been OOS a couple times due to problems but nothing major, from what I know.

[RDUNC67 1]

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I agree with most everything you said and as i read these threads, my theory is that it's not if you are going to have problems with a new rig, it's how efficiently are the problems going to be solved. As for the E-One killing of Saulsbury, the simple truth is that Saulsbury was way in the red and was not going to be around long anyway, E-One tried for 5 years (unsuccessfully) to re-establish the profitibility in that plant and it does appear now that the current administration may have tried to keep that going, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Remember585 815]

I agree with others who stated that every rig is different from the next.

I strongly feel that what you spec is what you get. If you don't pay attention to details and you don't do your homework, you are not getting a solid, dependable apparatus.

Our two most recent purchases were as follows;

A 2003 ALF / RD Murray engine - several electrical, mechanical, hydraulic and computer related problems. There were times when the rig was responding to calls and it "shut down" while going!

A 2006 Seagrave Marauder engine - so far the only problem we ran into was a bad switch which was replaced in less then 24 hours. (Thanks Excelsior).

The overall craftsmanship of the Seagrave is great. I have noticed a couple of paint issues (nothing major) and some other extremely minor things. When we went to Wisconsin to visit it, we created a punch list and every single item was handled - and thus far anything needed has been taken care of by our dealer, Excelsior.

I wish we could say the same for the guys with the ALF / RDM. They were unable to put that apparatus in service for several months because of the issues it had and the lack of cooperation they got from thier dealer. Other who have made ALF purchases swear by them - others hate them. Same goes for Seagrave too, I would imagine. Other then FDNY, nobody local has voiced a disappointment with thier Seagraves to my knowledge.

As for Pierce, many people balk at them but the one we have, which was a DEMO, has been good to us. It's a 2002 Rear-mount quint w/ 100 ft. tower. Solid rig, better then a lot of us anticipated.

[Guest brodustoadus8]

Well my department has 2 KME's, a 95 and a 97. There both pumpers and are almost twins, if we could, tomorrow we would trade both of them. We bought a demo 2003 ALF 110' and it has been great to us, we'll see what happens in time with it...

[Guest WolfEMT]

I strongly feel that what you spec is what you get.  If you don't pay attention to details and you don't do your homework, you are not getting a solid, dependable apparatus.

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Exactly. My department has an ex-Captain that designed our MCI bus as well as 2 regular busses. All three are pieces of crap because he didn't spec them correctly.

The MCI bus's box is too high off the ground to get a stretcher inside. The solution, you ask? He decided to get an air suspension that dumps out with the flip of a switch, thus dropping the body and allowing the stretcher to be installed inside the box. Sounds like a novel solution, right? Wrong! The air lines frequently blow out and/or leak, resulting in a severe body droop and the truck's eventual removal from service. Secondly, when and if the truck is in service (it's been out at least once every month since we received it in March 2005), due to the air suspension, the ride in the back is absolutely terrible.

The two regular duty busses were made by P&L and have a myriad of problems, mainly because the electrical systems weren't spec-ed correctly. Additionally, the ex-Captain decided that the two new rigs should have built-in trailer hitches in order to pull an MCI trailer that basically belongs to the County and not our department. (It's merely stored at our HQ, and does not see service with the rest of our apparatus.) The result of having such a trailer hitch? Depending on the height and angle of certain driveway aprons and sidewalks, the rigs cannot be parked in the driveway at the scene of a call.

Although I am describing problems that are pretty much unique to my department, they are all the results of poor planning. If you do not plan and spec out what you need in the best way possible, then you are wasting a good portion, if not all, of the money budgeted to your new piece of apparatus. Additionally, when you have a piece of apparatus that isn't the best it could possibly be, then you could be putting the public at risk as a result of your poor planning.

Edited September 20, 2006 by WolfEMT

[Guest]

Ours is great, we have had no problems with it yet. Knock, knock, knock

[eckyphats 0]

We love our Gowens Knights! good, and reliable! Relatively a small company, but they take a lot of pride in what they build.

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couldnt agree more , we have 2 spartans that were customed by G & K, there work is excellent and we have had only very minor problems

ive also included a pic of our 2006 kme predator that we have in my other dept.... weve had some problems but its a great looking truck

[eckyphats 0]

We love our Gowens Knights! good, and reliable! Relatively a small company, but they take a lot of pride in what they build.

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couldnt agree more , we have 2 spartans that were customed by G & K, there work is excellent and we have had only very minor problems

ive also included a pic of our 2006 kme predator that we have in my other dept.... weve had some problems but its a great looking truck

[eckyphats 0]

sorry double post and the pic wont come up

Edited September 27, 2006 by eckyphats