Parade Mentality Gone Wild....

[EJS1810 7]

All I can say is..........

[antiquefirelt 994]

I can't believe what I am seeing here. Having the best looking rigs and getting the best marks for marching makes for a better department?? That is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. Training is boring?? That training just may save someones life, maybe even your own.

My hat is off to this poor guy who has his prioirties in the right place. It's too bad the ignorant and the dinosaurs in his department are giving him such a hard time.

Parades should not be mandatory for any member unless your department is the one hosting it.

←

I couldn't agree more. All I can say is that having rules and enforcing them is good, as many vol. dept.s tend to ignore most. But stupid rules? If parades are the mainstay of your dept. then the taxpayers are getting the shaft. Do us a favor and stop hurting the rest of the fire service with these retarded ideas. I'll bet all the shiny rigs, and marching practice makes for a bunch of OUT STANDING firefighters!!

[DOC22 1]

All I can say is..........

←

HHMMMM, Very Good, Ed! I like that!

[Jason762 2]

It's hard for me to believe that younger members who posted some of their ridiculous ideas of how the fire service should be, really feel this way. When I was a vollie, new to the fire service I couldn't wait for drill night. I never found training to be boring, or felt that I was being over-trained. It was great to be introduced to all kinds of different knowledge and information. And my feeling for training continues to this day, its the one thing you can always fall back on when the s*** hits the fan. If you don't have that knowledge base then God help you the day you get jammed up. Or maybe the shiny trophy you won will give you the answer you need.

Maybe the problem in some of these dept.'s is the way this information is being presented. If your instructors are sub-par in their knowledge or ability to present the information in an interesting manner (such as relating book information to real life stories/experiences) than the experience can be painful for all involved. Training should not be boring for the members. Yes, there are some topics (bloodborne pathogens for example) that are mandatory yearly classes and aren't the most exciting, but they may also save your life or keep you from contracting a disease. Point is, if you find training boring maybe this whole fire service thing isn't for you. Perhaps you should find an interest in a more "exciting" field where you don't need to actually know what you're doing.

[LCFD968 10]

All I can say is..........

←

HAHAHHAHHAHHHHAAAA!!!! LOL!!!! He said beating dead horse, Now that FUNNY!!!!! AMEN to that brother!!!!!

Edited July 30, 2006 by LCFD968

[aves3131 0]

I really wish this thread would just be locked. Why? Because only one side of the story has been presented. Its funny to see how everyone is championing this one person when you have no other information other that he doesn't like parades. How about the fact that he doesn't come to drills or calls? How about the department, which has NIMS training in place and will be starting it this coming week? (A note about that, the member yelled at the chief and said that that wouldn't work for him because he was going to be to busy.)

This thread has just gotten way out of hand. Anyone can PM me if they really want to talk more about this. But this is all you're gonna see from me here.

And one last thing. Our department really took a chance when we voted this member in. We were actually warned against it by other agencies in the area because of his attitude and preformace. And this is the thanks we get.

Edited July 30, 2006 by aves3131

[AS702 0]

This seems to be a one sided story and like every other one, no one knows what else has happened..

Edited July 30, 2006 by AS702

[JBE 328]

I really wish this thread would just be locked. Why? Because only one side of the story has been presented. Its funny to see how everyone is championing this one person when you have no other information other that he doesn't like parades. How about the fact that he doesn't come to drills or calls? How about the department, which has NIMS training in place and will be starting it this coming week? (A note about that, the member yelled at the chief and said that that wouldn't work for him because he was going to be to busy.)

This thread has just gotten way out of hand. Anyone can PM me if they really want to talk more about this. But this is all you're gonna see from me here.

And one last thing. Our department really took a chance when we voted this member in. We were actually warned against it by other agencies in the area because of his attitude and preformace. And this is the thanks we get.

←

Well now, if this had been reported earlier, I would have kept my big yap shut. However, I stand by my statements. Training and drilling should not take a back seat to marching.

[Guest]

I have never heard of such non sense!. ... If you were to cast me out to be the bad guy for not going to a parade? I would know my time in that dept was over. Hats off to this guy that didn't want to part take in whacker parade crap, and wanted to do some real skills like train! This is the type of crap that is eliminating the volunteer service.

[junior215 0]

I feel compelled to reply to some of the posts in this string. Fonz, I really hope you are just joking. I have been on both sides of the fence, paid and volunteer. Both have their positives and negatives. However, I never marched in a parade as a volunteer. That is not why I joined. I was a very active member for years. I now live in a city with a paid department so my volunteer career is over.

One thing that always amazed me was the fact that members hated to drill, but would spend dozens of hours preparing for each parade. These are the same members that painted the working end of my tools and packed crosslays in a manner that was not funtional, but "looked good" in a parade.

Parades contribute absolutely nothing to the functionality of a fire department and should not be mandatory, PERIOD!!!!!!! They are part of the rich tradition of the volunteer service and are a great morale booster. However, when you start comparing parades to training, then you need to either put down the bottle you are drinking from or see a psychologist because there is something seriously wrong with your mind!!!!!!

[Monty 35]

I forgot to ask before...how can I resolve this situation? I live in the community I volunteer in, and I want to see it have the best fire protection. But I know if I speak up and come to the aid of the member I mentioned before, that I too will be ridiculed and forced out of the department.  I too was told that I couldn't go to a Firefighter Survival class because it interefered with a parade, but didn't speak up because it is in the rules about parades, and in my department they supercede everything, especially our own. I don't see a way out of this and dont know where to turn for help

←

A lot of feelings being expressed, but I see no-one tried answering the question. I remember reading an interesting article a while ago (about LBJ I believe). One of the things it pointed out is that when going against the majority, you have to be careful, as you can lose your voice within the group. As may have happened in this case.

Anyway some ideas to bat around ....

• Could you go to the local politicians?
  
• Could you go to the local press?
  
• Could you go to a FF association (not sure how much traction that has, as several of them have their own parades)?
  
• Contact the county about scheduling training to avoid parades, as you are currently mandated to attend parades?
  

Like a super tanker, you can turn the steering wheel (or whatever it's called), but given the momentum - it takes a heck of a long time to make that turn. The fire service around here has a lot of momentum with 100-200 years of tradition to over come.

My take is not to be the Martyr - but to be in the for the long haul, slowly trying to bring things round.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Well now, if this had been reported earlier, I would have kept my big yap shut. However, I stand by my statements. Training and drilling should not take a back seat to marching.

←

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO

Parades are for fun.

[irishfire2491 24]

THE way i see it volunteer is the KEY word cant force me to do anything!!!!

If it is a Paid Company then that is different you are being paid to go to parades

As for Volly's I dont have to show up for anything

Volunteer Volunteer Volunteer Volunteer Volunteer

[DOC22 1]

THE way i see it volunteer is the KEY word cant force me to do anything!!!!

If it is a Paid Company then that is different you are being paid to go to parades

As for Volly's I dont have to show up for anything

Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer  Volunteer

←

Actually, I disagree with you, Tom. Volunteer means you serve to the best of your ability, without any expectation of compensation, not that you can come and go and/or do whatever you please.

[Guest]

I really wish this thread would just be locked. Why? Because only one side of the story has been presented. Its funny to see how everyone is championing this one person when you have no other information other that he doesn't like parades. How about the fact that he doesn't come to drills or calls? How about the department, which has NIMS training in place and will be starting it this coming week? (A note about that, the member yelled at the chief and said that that wouldn't work for him because he was going to be to busy.)

This thread has just gotten way out of hand. Anyone can PM me if they really want to talk more about this. But this is all you're gonna see from me here.

And one last thing. Our department really took a chance when we voted this member in. We were actually warned against it by other agencies in the area because of his attitude and preformace. And this is the thanks we get.

←

Why are you trashing the member? What about the issue this thread is about? Answer the question.......are parades a mandatory function, and if so, why???? Is this member not ridiculed for his views? If you truly believe that we're skewed here, why not give us the real information to clear things up? What "thanks" are you expecting for taking this member into your roles....isn't it the job of good leadership to reign in and teach members, and for officers to listen to their members ideas and opinions? Wasn't a member denied training because it interfered with a parade? What is the rationale behind that, and how is the "problem member" at fault for that? I agree part of this may be an in-house issue to you, but in general its an issue plaguing the fire service.

To those saying we're beating a dead horse, maybe to you it's not an important issue but to some of us it is. If you dont like it you dont have to read it.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Route35

[TRUCK6018 50]

THE way i see it volunteer is the KEY word cant force me to do anything!!!!

If it is a Paid Company then that is different you are being paid to go to parades

As for Volly's I dont have to show up for anything

Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer  Volunteer

←

In my experience, those with this attitude are their own worst enemy.

No one can be forced to do anything. If you don't do something that is in either by-laws or rules and regulations, you get brought up on charges. If you don't follow an order by an officer, you get brought up on charges. Pretty simple concept.

Edited July 30, 2006 by TRUCK6018

[Guest Fonz1215]

this is all emtbravos fault that we are beating a dead horse this is a crappy website i dont know why this thread isnt closed ASAP department problems are nobody elses business but the departments and everyone should butt out its stupid people who think that we should train and be serious all the time that always cause problems and thats not what volunteer fds are about we can always train but we cant always go to a parade

[ex-commish 490]

Here we go...

#1 Parades are social functions..period. They should not be mandatory. If you want to mandate something....mandate training. Training saves lives...not marching.

#2. Volunteer means the avenue you chose to serve. We have a job to do and that is to protect the public. Refer to #1 on how we can do it best.

#3 We have an obligation to keep eachother safe. Refer to #1 on how we can do it best.

Our prioritites need some attention !!!

[cas2383 22]

This isnt a crappy website fonz.

[Guest]

Can we please get back on topic and to the question I initially asked. This is not in regards to a specific member or department, just as said the general issue at hand. Thanks to the few who did respond so far.

In this day and age, should departments mandate volunteer firefighters to attend parades? Especially those departments who don't mandate or require training? And those departments that are hurting for manpower to begin with, or complaining there is too much time needed for training? Moreso, how can departments actually punish firefighters for not attending parades, yet no consequences for not attending training?

[27east 19]

I won't comment on this new parade thread, I'll go and read through the other 150 threads on this utterly useless topic.

[Jared1979 19]

This topic is total waste of time. Why are bashing depts that march in parades, there is no need for that crap. Training is important and we all know that. To bash a fire dept that marches in parades is very immature and selfish.

[LCFD968 10]

This topic is total waste of time. Why are bashing depts that march in parades, there is no need for that crap.  Training is important and we all know that.  To bash a fire dept that marches in parades is very immature and selfish.

←

Because it seems thats what everbody does on this site now..................

[Guest]

It's funny that whenever someone has an opposing point of view, doesn't like what someone has to say, or someone questions activities or behavior, people automatically accuse those discussing it as bashing, and don't contribute in any shape or form to the discussion at hand. And I'm curious to know "Jared1979" how this discussion is immature and selfish and a total waste of time?

"LCFD968" and "Fonz", would you care to explain your bashing of this site? Because I think that the webmaster does a great job keeping up and trying to keep a handle on some of the crap....it seems people complain when he doesnt allow discussions such as this, and people complain when he does.....do people actually want to discuss these problems, or just be defensive and pretend they dont exist? I cant believe how some people pin the blame on the webmaster for this.

Edited July 31, 2006 by ZeerR

[robert benz 344]

Can somebody please explain to me what being over trained is? or too much training?

I sure hope those posts were made just to piss people off, otherwise there are depts that have more serious issues than who shows up for a parade

[Remember585 815]

THE way i see it volunteer is the KEY word cant force me to do anything!!!!

If it is a Paid Company then that is different you are being paid to go to parades

As for Volly's I dont have to show up for anything

Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer    Volunteer  Volunteer

←

Apparently nobody explained anything to you out there in the point.

Even though it is volunteer, it is what is known as a "Para-military" organization, where By-Laws, SOGs and other requirements must be met and adhered to. If a mandantory detail, say, a drill, is scheduled, it's not an option. Just because you don't receive any money for what you do does not give you the right to "do nothing you don't want to."

In the six years I served as a Line Officer, people pulled this crap on me all the time. "Why do I have to make cleanup details? I don't do parades?" Simple answer, as a Company MPO you are required to train on the rig, participate in weekly equipment checks and attend a certain amount of cleanup details - period.

When you join an organization, you are given an oath that you must adhere to. In most of these, it says you will obey and honor all rules, regulations and policies of such organization. PERIOD.

I feel some rules are obsolete and insane, and instead of rebelling against them, members of my organization and I take the time to rewrite our rules to be more modern.

[Remember585 815]

Can somebody please explain to me what being over trained is? or too much training?

I sure hope those posts were made just to piss people off, otherwise there are depts that have more serious issues than who shows up for a parade

←

Well put, sir.

I was just having a conversation with one of my Lieutenants this weekend, and we both agreed that every single time we drill or train, we learn something new. Why is it that so many people think they already know everything? These people should wear special helmets so when I see them, I know not to go into a job with them.

[LCFD968 10]

It's funny that whenever someone has an opposing point of view, doesn't like what someone has to say, or someone questions activities or behavior, people automatically accuse those discussing it as bashing, and don't contribute in any shape or form to the discussion at hand.  And I'm curious to know "Jared1979" how this discussion is immature and selfish and a total waste of time?

"LCFD968" and "Fonz", would you care to explain your bashing of this site? Because I think that the webmaster does a great job keeping up and trying to keep a handle on some of the crap....it seems people complain when he doesnt allow discussions such as this, and people complain when he does.....do people actually want to discuss these problems, or just be defensive and pretend they dont exist? I cant believe how some people pin the blame on the webmaster for this.

←

NEVER DID I STATE THE WEBMASTER IS DOING A BAD JOB!!!!! SO PLEASE DON'T PUT WORD IN MY MOUTH. THIS SITE IS AWESOME.

The bashing is some of the members comments to other members. its not called for. The topic started with a question and now its off on a tangent. That has been happening more and more on the different topics.

For the most part we know whats right and wrong. Training comes first and formost. For any department to put a parade in front of training there has to be another reason for said accusation. But when someone posts " if the department goes to more parades than fires then......" That is uncalled for. There are some very small depts in the area that might not have all but one structure fire a year and because they go to more parades they shouldn't be called firefighter, thats bashing.

Zeer, this has been going on for a while now (bashing for someone's opinion). If its right or wrong those people shouldn't be "BASHED".

[irishfire2491 24]

Apparently nobody explained anything to you out there in the point.

Even though it is volunteer, it is what is known as a "Para-military" organization, where By-Laws, SOGs and other requirements must be met and adhered to.  If a mandantory detail, say, a drill, is scheduled, it's not an option.  Just because you don't receive any money for what you do does not give you the right to "do nothing you don't want to."

←

The Point is a Very trickey Place I Tell ya John lol

I agree with obay The By-Laws and SOG's to keep a frim order on everything

What i was saying was Depending on PAid Dept that ge paid to work and march in parades to a Volly who may have a family party and is not be paid and or goes and has respect for the community and their dept.