46.26 "Clear The Air"

[RWC130 594]

Tonight, 7-18-06 I've been monitoring 46.26 during and after the storm.

I have to give a lot of credit to the 60-Control dispatchers.

The radio traffic has been crazy for the last hour to the point of non-stop chatter.

60-Control can't even get tones out for alarms because of it.

THIS SHOULD CONCERN YOU!

Why do we have 46.14, 46.42, and 8 UHF Fire Ground Channels ???

GIVE 60-CONTROL A BREAK!

Use alternate channels, It may save a life!

"Thank You"

Edited July 19, 2006 by RWC130

[FirNaTine 370]

You're absolutely right! Also, how about Depts. that really don't need 60 Control freqeuncy, to obtain their own Dispatching capabilities? That would really clear up the air and the mass confusion you hear and definitely save lives. It would also give 60 Control Dispatchers some breathing room, especially during severe weather conditions.

[ONLOCATION 24]

If certain Departments would obey the Transmissions it would work!......Happened During the Tornado aswell, and Every other Storm that hits the area.

[Guest]

46.06 has just been cleared for upper county use. mt. kisco is the test department. the plan i'm told is this will be the new rig channel. we are waiting for reprogramming of our radios. 46.26 is supposed to be for dispatching.

[spike2231 38]

46.06 has just been cleared for upper county use. mt. kisco is the test department. the plan i'm told is this will be the new rig channel. we are waiting for reprogramming of our radios. 46.26 is supposed to be for dispatching.

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just be aware that 46.06 is new rochelle s channel for dispatching and when they were on 46.26 there were complaints they were too busy now mt kisco is the test for up cty what irony in this idea

[Remember585 815]

What about the departments that spent thousands of dollars to put in thier own repeaters and secure thier own frequencies but STILL use 46.26 like it is a CB channel?!

The tornado day was absurd, units less then 2 miles from 60 Control were being covered by agencies over 20 miles away....

Chiefs should have the intelligence and insight to get units off the primary during busier times, why wait until you're going on 3 or 4 calls before you think of it?

[JustSomeGuy 0]

Nothing like trying to get a mayday across and have someone on the air giving a parade notification and repeating it. It could happen.

[x242Steve 1]

Nothing like trying to get a mayday across and have someone on the air giving a parade notification and repeating it.  It could happen.

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I am curious to know how many departments in Westchester have implemented the county-provided fireground radios? I know Rye was assigned Channel 3 and has put the portables in most of the rigs...

46.26 (or other main frequencies) being used as fireground frequencies is a major problem. If two neighboring departments are simultaneously operating at separate incidents and a Mayday is given over a shared frequency, then there could be serious confusion as to who/where is in trouble.

To quote RWC130: "Use alternate channels, It may save a life!"

[zinger57 4]

Since we're talking about frequencies.... For Port Chester, on my scanner I will hear 60-control talking, but I won't hear the Port Chester units talking to 60-control or among themselves, which I used to hear. Does PC have another frequency they are using to talk now, or maybe I am having a problem with my scanner?

[Shantz02 0]

Spike, 46.06 is no longer used by New Rochelle. They have moved all talking after initial dispatch (which is on 33.96) to their new UHF frequency.

The only department in the southern part of the county on 46.06 now is Pelham. We only use 46.06 for communications with 60 control. While operating at a scene, we use County Fireground 3.

[MPG1 48]

I'M JUST TRYING TO GET YOUR TONES TO YOUR DEPARTMENT. WHEN EVERYBODY USES 46.26 FOR TALK AROUND SOME PEOPLE WON'T GET THEIR DISPATCHS. I EVEN ASKED MOHEGAN TO USE THEIR UHF REPEATED SYSTEM ON THE LOCAL CHANNEL, INSTEAD OF EACH PORTABLE BEING A TOWER. JUST WAIT FOR THE NEW SYSTEM, IT SHOULD BE DONE APRIL 2014.....

[Fireman488 57]

Elmsford FD, in my opinion, has a great setup.

In addition to 46.26, 46.14 and the County Fireground frequencies.

We have our own village frequency 153.98, which we use most of the time.

We even use it on mutual aid responses to communicate easily with each other, while not interferring with other fireground communications.

[ex-commish 490]

I am curious to know how many departments in Westchester have implemented the county-provided fireground radios?  I know Rye was assigned Channel 3 and has put the portables in most of the rigs...

46.26 (or other main frequencies) being used as fireground frequencies is a major problem.  If two neighboring departments are simultaneously operating at separate incidents and a Mayday is given over a shared frequency, then there could be serious confusion as to who/where is in trouble.

To quote RWC130: "Use alternate channels, It may save a life!"

←

We purchased our own portables and use our assigned channel 1 on the fireground. I have instructed our officers and drivers to switch to the high band after they call 10-17 on 46.26.

[IzzyEng4 427]

As a dispatcher this is the problem with many departments. If you have two or three channels assigned to use, Channel 1 should be the main operations responding and returning to a call, and also for routine traffic such as letting the control center know your on the air wheter in service or out of service (ie fuel, training ect.)

One a department is on scene they should use a fire-ground / tactical channel to keep communications off the main channel. Why, I'll tell you my own experience. When I was doing volunteer dispatch for my department many moons ago, we had a fire and the chief was calling for a second alarm. Our old system had 2 channels but the second channel was being use by fire-police and our department had a bad pratice of not using a tatical / fire-ground channel, all communications were on channel 1. As I was toning out the second alarm companies in town, I effectively stomped over the members operating in the basement who got into trouble and could talk to anyone until I was finished with the dispatch. Major problem to say the least. Thankfully no one was hurt. Ever since that point I have always stressed the department to use a secondary channel for operations, no we have a new system with a main repeater and two firegrounds. But unfortunately, some old habits don't change.

[joeya7 1]

If you look at Port Chester all the portables are on VHF with the Chiefs and paid guys having the repeater channel so they can transmit to 60 control. How hard is it to have them switch to channel 2 while on the fire ground? The IC can still monitor 60 control and when the IC needs to transmit he just has to switch to channel 1. Is that asking too much?

[CAM502 6]

This topic again......

Edited July 19, 2006 by CAM502

[INIT915 1,119]

As a dispatcher this is the problem with many departments.  If you have two or three channels assigned to use, Channel 1 should be the main operations responding and returning to a call, and also for routine traffic such as letting the control center know your on the air wheter in service or out of service (ie fuel, training ect.)

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I've always felt that the phone is a more appropriate venue for calling in and out of service for fuel/training/etc.

Yes/No?

Also, in the age we live in, how come message paging/email/etc cannot be used for meeting/parade/etc announcments, in place of your primary dispatch frequency. Any agenies utilize those alternatives versus tying up 46.26?

[PCFD-2393 0]

If you look at Port Chester all the portables are on VHF with the Chiefs and paid guys having the repeater channel so they can transmit to 60 control. How hard is it to have them switch to channel 2 while on the fire ground? The IC can still monitor 60 control and when the IC needs to transmit he just has to switch to channel 1. Is that asking too much?

In reply to above and only to above,yes,Port Chester uses Channel 2(non-repeater) channel when on the fireground.Hence,people do not hear us on thier scanner... This has been the case for some time now...

And no,your not asking too much,but who are you to ask??

Last night,with the weather,we went totallyoff 46.26 to a secondary channel,for dispatch...

As did many other depts............... Enough said....................

[IzzyEng4 427]

I've always felt that the phone is a more appropriate venue for calling in and out of service for fuel/training/etc.

Yes/No?

Also, in the age we live in, how come message paging/email/etc cannot be used for meeting/parade/etc announcments, in place of your primary dispatch frequency. Any agenies utilize those alternatives versus tying up 46.26?

←

Well that may be true for a career department calling their dispatch center since many departments (at least up here) run the ZETRON alerting intercom systems. In a Large regional system sucha as what used to work in, it's easier over the radio. Plus too calling over the radio enables other engine, truck and rescue companies know that you are not in your own quarters or out of your district. There are good and bad point to this though.

[Guest]

You're absolutely right! Also, how about Depts. that really don't need 60 Control freqeuncy, to obtain their own Dispatching capabilities? That would really clear up the air and the mass confusion you hear and definitely save lives. It would also give 60 Control Dispatchers some breathing room, especially during severe weather conditions.

←

The problem isn't too few dispatch agencies, its too many.

Opinion...

Edited July 19, 2006 by lfdR1

[FirNaTine 370]

The problem isn't too few dispatch agencies, its too many.

Opinion...

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I believe it's the other way around. Since so many Depts. rely on 60 Control for Dispatching, it becomes a complete cluster F*ck when the sh*t hits the fan. I remember years ago, when an NRFD Deputy Chief was unable to contact 60 by radio to request a 2nd Alarm because of all the other transmissions that were being broadcasted, some for the 2nd and 3rd times. He finally asked anyone who was monitoring and heard his request to please contact 60 Control and relay his message, which was eventually done by a neighboring Dept. thankfully. Geeze, talk about a SAFETY ISSUE!

[Skooter92 7]

Actually, if 46.26 was used for tones ONLY, and say, 46.14 was used to talk to 60, and maybe 46.42 was used by 60 to talk to units in the field, and other channels were used on the fireground......

Oh, snap.

PUTNAM COUNTY is doing something resembling that RIGHT NOW.

Frickin' concept, huh?

ANd if I hear ONE MORE department tone out some drill or social function while another department is going on an actual alarm......I'll fire one a' them North Korean missiles at their radio room.

Really, now.

[mfc2257 464]

The entire county wide system is a piece of junk. I've said it here a million times with concrete examples of how to make it work....

But again the way to make it work isn't to have more dispatching agencies.

The way to make it work is to hire a county fire coordinator who is successful in taking a totally unorganized county like Westchester and setting a standard for communications and operations for the entire county. The problem is that everyone is still communicating the way that they "want" to... Instead of the way that the county should mandate them to. If frequencies were set and SOP's for communicating crossed municipality lines by mandate, this problem wouldn't exist.

Until someone is willing to take Grasslands by the horns the county will continue to be a communications mess.

This is a fact !

[Rsudol 0]

The entire county wide system is a piece of junk.  I've said it here a million times with concrete examples of how to make it work....

But again the way to make it work isn't to have more dispatching agencies.

The way to make it work is to hire a county fire coordinator who is successful in taking a totally unorganized county like Westchester and setting a standard for communications and operations for the entire county.  The problem is that everyone is still communicating the way that they "want" to... Instead of the way that the county should mandate them to.  If frequencies were set and SOP's for communicating crossed municipality lines by mandate, this problem wouldn't exist.

Until someone is willing to take Grasslands by the horns the county will continue to be a communications mess.

This is a fact !

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Mamaroneck spent alot of money implementing with great success the fire ground plan here, we were able to make sure a portable radio is available for every interior FF and additional are available for Exterior crews too. We dont use repeaters and we seem to work just fine.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

You have a CFC that wants to implement change and get things in the right direction and is thwarted at every turn. Why....because of the word "change". Everyone has their own way and that is the "right way." Go figure.

You had a DES Commissioner who had great insight and plans and was fought with over everything. Why again, change that might have improved the services Westchester citizens get. But when people look at things like its a personal attack on a status instead of what the overall picture is that's what happens.

[JBE 328]

(Quote)Actually, if 46.26 was used for tones ONLY, and say, 46.14 was used to talk to 60, and maybe 46.42 was used by 60 to talk to units in the field, and other channels were used on the fireground......

Oh, snap.(Quote)

This idea is long over due. Especially with the amount of units you guys have up there. Another idea would be to have a frequency for certain battalions int he county. This is something one large department I frequently buff (LA County) does.

(Quote)You have a CFC that wants to implement change and get things in the right direction and is thwarted at every turn. Why....because of the word "change". Everyone has their own way and that is the "right way." Go figure.

You had a DES Commissioner who had great insight and plans and was fought with over everything. Why again, change that might have improved the services Westchester citizens get. But when people look at things like its a personal attack on a status instead of what the overall picture is that's what happens. (Quote)

I truly hate hearing stuff like this. I'm pretty old school when it comes to a lot of things, but if there is an opportunity to improve on an existing system, and nothing but benefits comes out of it, why not?? Sure, there will be some growing pains with adjustments and stuff, but adapting is a trait that most humans are good at.

PS I did consider applying for that Communications position up there that was posted a few months back. Unfortunately other things came up.

Edited July 25, 2006 by JBE

[mfc2257 464]

Mamaroneck spent alot of money implementing with great success the fire ground plan here, we were able to make sure a portable radio is available for every interior FF and additional are available for Exterior crews too.  We dont use repeaters and we seem to work just fine.

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It is great that individual departments have allocated funding and resources to their own communications initiatives. This does not solve however, the massive county wide problem that exists when most agencies aren't on the same page.

Every department should have the same core frequencies in their radios both on apparatus and portables. If a department wants to add a talkaround freq for drill, or non emergency items thats fine.

The county needs to license 8 fire freqs for use aside from 46.26. Assign 4 freqs to the southern end of the county, and 4 to the northern end (with all 8 freq's being programmed into all apparatus regardless of their location for use in those rare occasions when a unit from northern Westchester ends up down county). Dispatch on 46.26 and when a unit calls 10-17 the dispatcher acknowledges the response and assigns them a channel immeadiatly to switch to. The apparatus switches to that channel and never speaks over 46.26 again.

But until the county mandates the way apparatus communicate instead of letting departments choose on thier own, there is still going to be a rats nest of communicatios problems in the county.

[calhobs 110]

What is amazing is that after all these years we still have problems with communcation . What is even more amazing is that most of the problems are us. As you see mentioned in the posts here. We just have to pratice switching over to the fireground freq. My Dept is self dispatched so to speak we are dispatched by our PD. But we still run into probelms if we forget to switch over to fireground. We should pratice this operation in all drills. Just check and make sure if you share it like we do that no one else is using it.

[Guest WCDES636]

The real problem is just about every department in Westchester has thier own license to operate on 46.26. Therefor the County has no way to regulate how anybody operates on the frequency. The new trunking system( Whenever that may show up. ) will eleveate that sort of thing. The FCC will not allow any other department to be licensed on those frequecies in Westchester. That would give Westchester County ultimate command and control over who, when amd how the frquecies are used.

[COMMANDCHIEF 4]

Plain and simple. Stop using the radios like a telephone. Keep the messages short.