Patriotic graphics on rigs

[res6cue 67]

Is anyone else getting a bit tired of seeing American flags and patriotic graphics plastered all over fire apparatus? Some of the work is really nice, don't get me wrong. The Seagraves that were delivered to FDNY in the months following 9/11 were especially nice (L10 and S61 notably) but now it just seems a bit much. It seems like just about every Pierce that leaves the factory has that American flag grill on it.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm certainly not anti-patriotism or anti-9/11 remembrance, quite the opposite. I lost a very close and longtime friend that day from our dept that was in S41. We dedicated and named the station closest to his house in honor of him, as well as put a nice decal on the side of the engine in that station, and smaller decals on the windows of all our other apparatus. When we spec'd the graphics on our tower in late 2001, we came up with a really nice American flag, eagle and WTC decal (which I've seen on other Pierce rigs after we came up with it).

I'm talking more about the really over the top stuff. Where was all this patriotism BEFORE 9/11 happened?

PS - No, I'm not a communist.

[res6cue 67]

Incidentally, here's the decal and graphic.

[sbvfd596 2]

yeah I know what you mean. The only thing that bother's me is when people are more intrested in the look, just because now it's becoming a trend rather than a rememberance

[res6cue 67]

Yeah, that's a good way to sum it up. I know this is an emotional topic, and I also know that these graphics and such are done with absolutely the very best, heartfelt intentions. I would never question that. But in my perhaps narrow minded or warped way of looking at it, it just seems like it's more of the hip thing to do and maybe it does take some of the real meaning away from it. On the flip side, something that draws your attention and makes you remember the brothers and sisters that have lost their lives protecting others, not just on 9/11, is worth it.

Clearly, I'm a bit conflicted over this issue.

[Guest LAGRANGEFF40]

WELL RES6CUE I PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE THE AMERCAN FLAG ALL OVER I THINK THAT PEOPLE DO NOT RESPECT OR CHERISH THE FLAG ENOUGH . THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE COLORS AND MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES FIGHTING FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG IN FOREIGN SOIL WHERE SOMETIMES THE ONLY REASON THEY DID NOT GIVE UP AND KEPT GOING WAS FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG. I DID NOT SERVE IN ANY OF THE ARMED FORCES BUT I RESPECT THE AMERICAN FLAG AS A SIGN OF FREEDOM AND A SYMBOL TO SHOW THAT NOT AM I ONLY AN AMERICAN BUT DAMN PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN . I PERSONALLY THINK THAT EVERY ONE SHOULD HAVE A FLAG HANGING ON THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE. ALL KIDS SHOULD SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE IN SCHOOL LEARN ABOUT THE AMERICAN FLAG AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . THE THING THAT KILLS ME IS PEOPLE WILL DISRESPECT THE PLEDGE BECAUSE IT HAS GOD IN IT BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM TAKING OUR MONEY WHICH HAS IN GOD WE TRUST WRITEN ON IT . WELL I HOPE I CHANGED YOUR OUTLOOK ON ALL THE AMERICAN FLAG IN THIS COUNTRY I HANG MINE HIGH AND PROUD AND I WISH EVERY ONE ELSE WOULD GO OUT AND GET A NEW FLAG TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT WE ALL (AMERICANS) SUPPORT THE VETERANS AND OUR TROOPS OVER SEAS . I THINK THAT WAR VETERANS ARE PROUD TO SEE THE AMERICAN FLAG FLYING WHEN THEY RETURN TO THE STATES THANKS TO ALL THAT PROTECT OUR COUNTRY THATS ALL!!

[res6cue 67]

LAGRANGE,

I too respect the flag immensely, I assure you. I didn't need to be convinced otherwise or have my outlook changed, I guess I didn't make it clear in my initial post that it's not the flag itself I have an issue with, but the way it's (mis)used sometimes. Your post reminds me of another reason I DON'T like seeing it plastered all over the place, because (to use your own words) I don't believe it's always done with the full meaning understood or with the proper respect it's due. I honestly believe it's done because "it looks cool" or it's the "in" and popular thing to do these days.

PS - Please, let's not make this thread about politics or the pledge of allegiance or unjust wars or anything else, that's really not the direction I want this thread to take.

Edited May 29, 2006 by res6cue

[27east 19]

WELL RES6CUE I PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE THE AMERCAN FLAG ALL OVER I THINK THAT PEOPLE DO NOT RESPECT OR CHERISH THE FLAG ENOUGH . THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE COLORS AND MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES FIGHTING FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG IN FOREIGN SOIL WHERE SOMETIMES THE ONLY  REASON THEY DID NOT GIVE UP AND KEPT GOING WAS FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG. I DID NOT SERVE IN ANY OF THE ARMED FORCES BUT I RESPECT THE AMERICAN FLAG AS A SIGN OF FREEDOM AND A SYMBOL TO SHOW THAT NOT AM I ONLY AN AMERICAN BUT DAMN PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN . I PERSONALLY THINK THAT EVERY ONE SHOULD HAVE A FLAG HANGING ON THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE. ALL KIDS SHOULD SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE IN SCHOOL LEARN ABOUT THE  AMERICAN FLAG AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . THE THING THAT KILLS ME IS PEOPLE WILL DISRESPECT THE PLEDGE BECAUSE IT HAS GOD IN IT BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM TAKING OUR MONEY WHICH HAS IN GOD WE TRUST WRITEN ON IT .  WELL I HOPE I CHANGED YOUR OUTLOOK ON ALL THE AMERICAN FLAG IN THIS COUNTRY I HANG MINE HIGH AND PROUD AND I WISH EVERY ONE ELSE WOULD GO OUT AND GET A NEW FLAG TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT WE ALL (AMERICANS) SUPPORT THE VETERANS AND OUR TROOPS OVER SEAS . I THINK THAT WAR VETERANS ARE PROUD TO SEE THE AMERICAN FLAG FLYING WHEN THEY RETURN TO THE STATES  THANKS TO ALL THAT PROTECT OUR COUNTRY      THATS ALL!!

←

Yes. Absolutly. The man is right.

[Guest LAGRANGEFF40]

RES6CUE

I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR SAYING WITH THE ROLE PLAY BUT I THINK THAT THE AMERICAN FLAG SHOULD HAVE BEEN PLACED ON ALL GOV/MUNICIPAL VEH TO SHOW THE RESPECT FOR OUR COUNTRY. UNFORTUNATELY WHEN YOU MAKE MENTION TO THE AMERICAN FLAG MOST PEOPLE THINK OF OUR COUNTRY OUR GOVERMENT OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM AND OUR PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE . ITS NOT THAT IM LOOKING TO MAKE THIS A POLITICAL THREAD BUT I TAKE A GREAT PRIDE OF BEING AMERICAN AND STAND BEHIND MY AMERICAN FLAG. NOT TO SOUND LIKE IM FIGHTING YOU BUT LIKE I SAID IN MY FIRST POST THAT THE FLAG DOES NOT GET DISPLAYED ENOUGH . THE WAY I SEE IT IS THAT 9/11 AND THE WAR IS AN EYE OPENER FOR PEOPLE AND THE MORE THEY SEE THE FLAG ON A FIRE TRUCK A AMBULANCE A UNIFORM SHIRT OR JUST MY HOUSE I HOPE IT MAKES MORE PEOPLE PUT THE AMERICAN FLAG UP AND NOT JUST ON THE 4TH OF JULY OR VETERANS DAY BUT SHOW HOW PROUD THEY ARE EVERY DAY

THANK YOU

[Guest]

WELL RES6CUE I PERSONALLY LIKE TO SEE THE AMERCAN FLAG ALL OVER I THINK THAT PEOPLE DO NOT RESPECT OR CHERISH THE FLAG ENOUGH . THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT ON THE COLORS AND MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . PEOPLE LOST THEIR LIVES FIGHTING FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG IN FOREIGN SOIL WHERE SOMETIMES THE ONLY  REASON THEY DID NOT GIVE UP AND KEPT GOING WAS FOR THE AMERICAN FLAG. I DID NOT SERVE IN ANY OF THE ARMED FORCES BUT I RESPECT THE AMERICAN FLAG AS A SIGN OF FREEDOM AND A SYMBOL TO SHOW THAT NOT AM I ONLY AN AMERICAN BUT DAMN PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN . I PERSONALLY THINK THAT EVERY ONE SHOULD HAVE A FLAG HANGING ON THE FRONT OF THEIR HOUSE. ALL KIDS SHOULD SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIENCE IN SCHOOL LEARN ABOUT THE  AMERICAN FLAG AND LEARN THE TRUE MEANING OF THE AMERICAN FLAG . THE THING THAT KILLS ME IS PEOPLE WILL DISRESPECT THE PLEDGE BECAUSE IT HAS GOD IN IT BUT THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM TAKING OUR MONEY WHICH HAS IN GOD WE TRUST WRITEN ON IT .  WELL I HOPE I CHANGED YOUR OUTLOOK ON ALL THE AMERICAN FLAG IN THIS COUNTRY I HANG MINE HIGH AND PROUD AND I WISH EVERY ONE ELSE WOULD GO OUT AND GET A NEW FLAG TO SHOW EVERYONE THAT WE ALL (AMERICANS) SUPPORT THE VETERANS AND OUR TROOPS OVER SEAS . I THINK THAT WAR VETERANS ARE PROUD TO SEE THE AMERICAN FLAG FLYING WHEN THEY RETURN TO THE STATES  THANKS TO ALL THAT PROTECT OUR COUNTRY      THATS ALL!!

←

I agree the flag should be on every truck....

Jersey City Ladder 9

Ridgefield Park 532

[ONLOCATION 24]

Understandable that yes there has been a large influx of Flags and Patriotic Graphics on rigs since 9-11 but I believe its Great. Being Proud of your Country (which we all are) is why we are the country we are and I think we should display are colors proudly. Now this doesn't mean that dept.'s who do not sport these aren't as patriotic as another, its all Preference. There is some overkill but whatever, thats up to the people putting it on there vehicles. I can be a continued reminder of what has happened in our nations past and that we will sport are colors proudly whenever possible, that we really will "Never Foreget". This could also be like the Magnetic Ribbons?

Edited May 29, 2006 by ONLOCATION

[JetPhoto 626]

Respect,

The people that we serve,

The property we protect,

The country we live in,

The colors and symbols we choose to represent our nation!

[Guest]

FDNY truck 10 had the right idea. On my photo to thje left you can see what I mean.

Edited May 29, 2006 by nutty1

[IzzyEng4 427]

Quite frankly for me, as long as the decals are of the American flag only, not defaced with an eagle or anything else ON or FADED ON TOP OF IT is ok. Images surrounding or "protecting" the colors are fine also, but to be technical anything that is "merged" into the flag is actually defacing it, so to speak. I get tired of seeing the flag being depicted as "something to look or make it cool" The Stars and Stripes are cool just by itself. I think it is better to actually have a 5 X 8 flag flown from a truck on a flag hold or such is better than a decal.

People have to remember the rules that the country has for the flag and remember its pride. I know a lot of great pictures, ect. have surfaced in recent years and are great renditions. But remember we do have a FLAG CODE out for the stars and stripes.

Here is some reading material for all here in the forums, you'll be suprised at the list of what not to do because of pop culture.

http://www.legion.org/?section=our_flag

http://www.legion.org/?section=our_flag&su...ntent=flag_code

Edited May 29, 2006 by IzzyEng4

[AndyC3J 190]

From what I understand (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the flag graphics in the grille is an option from Pierce. And, Squad 61 and Ten Truck's murals were done by the folks at Seagrave, since both pieces were donated by said company (or at least one of them was).

[res6cue 67]

From what I understand (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) the flag graphics in the grille is an option from Pierce.  And, Squad 61 and Ten Truck's murals were done by the folks at Seagrave, since both pieces were donated by said company (or at least one of them was).

Correct on both accounts.

Izzy...I agree and I think that's something overlooked, the possibly haphazard or irreverent use of the flag. Although I suppose the graphic we came up with for our tower is an example of what not to do. At the time we felt it was a fitting and appropriate, yet low key, tribute to 9/11.

Again, I'm absolutely not against the use of the flag or memorial or tribute graphics on apparatus. I just worry that the true meaning is sometimes overshadowed when it becomes more about looks than anything else. I hope that the purpose of these graphics and why we have them is explained to the new members and the younger generation, just like I hope we pass along our history and traditions. As a specific example, new members in my company should be told who Greg Sikorsky was and why we honor him as we do. It's not enough that they see his name or the graphic on our apparatus, they should know about the service he gave and the life he led and ultimately sacrificed to save others.

[AS702 0]

Speaking of patriotic decals.. Anyone know how much the flag grille from Pierce costs?

[Guest]

these days fire apparatus and equipment are some of the few things that are proudly made in the United States, and used proudly by Americans. The American flag should be proudly displayed whenever possible, as long as it is done the proper way. To suggest there are too many flags on rigs, on Memorial Day nonetheless, is ridiculous.

[res6cue 67]

To suggest there are too many flags on rigs, on Memorial Day nonetheless, is ridiculous.

Yes, that's it, you got me. I intentionally started this thread on Memorial Day because I'm an insensitive and unpatriotic bastard.

Actually, I realized the horrible timing of the thread only after there were replies to it already. Try actually reading the content and context of my posts before you suggest that I'm being disrespectful or "ridiculous". Thank you.

Edited May 30, 2006 by res6cue

[sbvfd596 2]

I pretty much agree with everyone on this topic, it seems like one of those things that you just can't think too negativaley about, beacause either way it's a good thing. FYI i got a new truck today, and yes the stars and stripes are going on the read window

[210 91]

Quite frankly for me, as long as the decals are of the American flag only, not defaced with an eagle or anything else ON or FADED ON TOP OF IT is ok.  Images surrounding or "protecting" the colors are fine also, but to be technical anything that is "merged" into the flag is actually defacing it, so to speak.  I get tired of seeing the flag being depicted as "something to look or make it cool"  The Stars and Stripes are cool just by itself. I think it is better to actually have a 5 X 8 flag flown from a truck on a flag hold or such is better than a decal.

People have to remember the rules that the country has for the flag and remember its pride.  I know a lot of great pictures, ect. have surfaced in recent years and are great renditions.  But remember we do have a FLAG CODE out for the stars and stripes.

Here is some reading material for all here in the forums, you'll be suprised at the list of what not to do because of pop culture.

http://www.legion.org/?section=our_flag

http://www.legion.org/?section=our_flag&su...ntent=flag_code

←

I really like the flag flying from the rear of the rigs. It looks very appropriate to me.

[CAM502 6]

Quotes frome the Flag Code:

Izzy brought up a good point...

"(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor

attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature."

Something to think about when shopping for those summer BBQ's...

"(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard."

[ONLOCATION 24]

On Mahopac 18-2-3 2005 KME

[ONLOCATION 24]

On West Harrison Rescue 35, Not EXTREMELY Patriotic but very tastefull

Edited June 1, 2006 by ONLOCATION

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

Secaucus,nj (hudson county) engine 2

[MESS11FOREVER 246]

Fair lawn,nj (bergen county) engine 3