Millwood Company & District Clash

[ONLOCATION 24]

Millwood firefighters sue in clash over election

By ELIZABETH GANGA

eganga@lohud.com

THE JOURNAL NEWS

(Original publication: May 19, 2006)

MILLWOOD — The organization representing the volunteers in the Millwood Fire Department is suing the fire district's governing body to try to force approval of the volunteers' choice for second assistant fire chief.

On April 6, the firefighters elected Walter Quast as second assistant chief by better than 2-to-1 over the other candidate, Ray Lips, in this year's only contested election for line officers, said Richard Scanlan, the fire company's treasurer. But on April 24, the fire commissioners, which govern the district, rejected Quast's election. Three commissioners voted against Quast and two abstained.

The commissioners asked for a new nomination, and although the fire company nominated another person on a temporary basis, it challenged the commissioners' decision in state Supreme Court in White Plains on May 12.

Scanlan said this was the first time in his more than 30 years of volunteering with the department that a fire officer wasn't approved by the commissioners. Moreover, he said, the district's bylaws require approval by the fire officers unless the nominee doesn't meet certain qualifications.

Quast is a former chief and a dedicated volunteer familiar with the newest apparatus, Scanlan said.

"He'd get up at 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning and lug hose," Scanlan said. The vast majority of the volunteers approved the lawsuit, he said.

Quast couldn't be reached for comment yesterday.

Anthony Olenik, chairman of the Board of Fire Commissioners, said he couldn't comment because of the legal action. Commissioner Angelo Indusi, who abstained in the vote against Quast along with Commissioner Fred Scheier, also said he couldn't comment.

The lawsuit adds another layer of contention to the Millwood Fire Department, which is struggling with controversy over the district's proposal to build a new firehouse.

The fire district covers the western end of New Castle.

[firecapt32 282]

lets see who has that last say on this one too!!! fire commissioners are the elected body of the citizens. sounds like a interesting stand off here, the people or the f.d.

stay tuned

[TRUCK6018 50]

lets see who has that last say on this one too!!!  fire commissioners are the elected body of the citizens. sounds like a interesting stand off here, the people or the f.d.

stay tuned

←

Not so much that commissioners are publicly elected officials but they have to abide by laws (not bylaws as stated in the article) regarding elections of officers. New York State Town Law chapter 176, section 11-a describes how this is to be done. (Note: Fire Districts do not have bylaws, they adopt rules and regulations.)

In a nutshell, department members are to nominate individuals for the position. The commissioners then consider the nominations and if a nomination is not accepted, it is to go back to the department for another nomination.

Edited May 21, 2006 by TRUCK6018

[Guest Rich DD]

Since when does an ordinary citizen have the QUILIFICATION to reject an officer who is quifilied to fulfill his/her job? Although Commissioners do have a resposibility to the public, most civilian Commissioners have NO CLUE as to the quilifications, or the training required to be a Chief Officer, unless of course they are firefighters them selves. Then wouldn't this be a conflict of interests?

Being a fire Commissioner, and a firefighter on the same Company in which he/she is a commissioner is a conflict of interest. Not only is it a conflict of interest, but how can he/she honestly act in the best interest of the Public they represent when their vested interest is the fire Department they work at.

It doesn't matter if you are paid or volunteer, if you are a Commissioner, and a firefighter for the same Department, there are going to be times you vote in favor of something for the Fire Department, when it is actually not in the best interest of the Public.

An example would be:

The Fire Department wants a fire boat, and has an interest to fight fires, and effect water rescue with this boat. All of the Commissioners are happy about the Fire Fighter's initive, and vote for approval to purchase a fire boat. This looks all well, until I tell you that the closest water to this fire department is 40 miles away... and is known as a stream. This is clearly NOT in the best interest of the Public, but it was voted for never-the-less.

Again, this reinforces my point that the Commissioners should not be ACTIVE firefighters, and be there to properly represent the public.

Having said that, they should be there to ensure that the safety of the public and firefighters is parimount. NOT to decide who shall lead the firefighters into battle with an enemy they know little about.

The Commissioners should protect the Public's interest in their budjet. Clearly buying a boat with no water to put it in is criminal.... and should be in the public's eyes. But representing the firefighter's safety in buying equipment that will allow each firefighter to do their job easier, safer, and be more productive is a priority, and money well spent.

I don't know who these "Commissioners" are, and what Quilifications they have to decide, but they should focus their efforts in helping the fire department, not cause distension.

Just my 2 cents!!

Edited May 22, 2006 by Rich DD

[res6cue 67]

I somewhat agree with Rich's basic point, that if the board of commissioners are also members of the company, it could be problematic at times.

Unlike Rich, I definitely wouldn't go so far as to say a board of commissioners comprised of firefighters would not be able to act in the public's best interest, or have any objectivity. His example of the boat purchase is a good one, and does illustrate what could potentially go wrong, but I don't think that's the norm. Sure it happens from time to time, I won't say it doesn't. Maybe some of the issues of alleged extravagant spending on the Island were a result of this situation, where the commissioners were company members who were either too easily influenced or were looking out for their own interests rather than the public's.

That being said, there are definitely upsides to having a governing board that understands exactly what the Chief means when he goes before them to ask for "2 TFT nozzles, 800 feet of 2 inch, 5 cans of AFFF..." without having to stand there for an hour explaining what the acronyms stand for, what each thing does and why it is needed. Not that I'm suggesting he shouldn't have to justify each and every item he requests regardless, but realistically, it's a lot easier when you both speak the same language.

All I'm saying is, be careful what you wish for. I've seen where depts are run by bean counters. It's not pretty, and operations definitely suffer. I'd rather have the occasional conflict of interest than deal with an apathetic board.

Another point to make is regarding other types of public office. Would you prohibit someone from running for town supervisor if they once worked for the highway dept, fearing they might show favoritism or bad judgment in administering that dept? Or tell someone they can't run for state senate because they were once a police officer, and you just know they'll blindly vote yes for any legislation favoring cops? Of course not. Often times, you're glad to have someone who understands the issues straight away. Why should a board of fire commissioners be any different then?

The flip side of that is what appears to be happening in this particular case, where there might be a personality conflict between the board and this member. I've seen that side of it too, where maybe a Chief isn't particularly liked by the commissioners and they give him a hard time during his term, sometimes even denying him requested items just to make a point. Now THAT is definitely not acting in the public's best interest.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Rich, I understand your opinion on a commissioner being a confilict of interest while also a firefighter of the same department. From a legal standpoint it isn't because as a firefighter, they have no decision making capacity. They are only one voice within a department when issues need a majority vote. On the fireground, they have no decision makeing capacity period!

It could be benificial to departments to have outside commissioners as stated. They would (hopefully) be able to remain unbiased when it comes to certain issues. I've seen to many times that commissioners have their own agendas and things go bad.

Commissioners have to remember that while acting as a commissioner they are civilians, not uniformed officers, not firefighters. They need to keep in mind what's best for everyone involved, not just the department or the public and expecially not themselves.

[firecapt32 282]

the citizens always have the last say thats why we have elections. that is what our country is all about.

[Guest]

It certainly makes sense to me that being both a commissioner and a firefighter is a conflict of interest. However, I'm sure there are plenty of districts that operate this way. I suppose it is because you need to have some knowledge base in order to effectively serve the district in a commissioner's capacity - and a lot of the suburban towns do not have people that are interested and educated in the fire service that do not already belong to the Dept....then what? Good topic.

[ex-commish 490]

Since when does an ordinary citizen have the QUILIFICATION to reject an officer who is quifilied to fulfill his/her job?  Although Commissioners do have a resposibility to the public, most civilian Commissioners have NO CLUE as to the quilifications, or the training required to be a Chief Officer, unless of course they are firefighters them selves.  Then wouldn't this be a conflict of interests? 

Just my 2 cents!!

←

You make a good point but you have to remember a board of fire commissioners are trustees for a fire district. A fire district, like a town board or village board is an arm of state government. If you look at the make up of most town and village boards you will see ordinary citizens elected and charged with making decisions. Is it a requirement for a town board member to have knowledge of police, recreation, public works, etc? No. Yet they are charged with the responsiblitites of appointing or rejecting people to positions, voting on budgets, etc just like a fire district.

A fire chief is a district position. In a career dept a chief is appointed by the board based on his/her test score and also qualifications. It is really no different in a volunteer dept ( minus the test which wouldn't be a bad idea) as it is still an appointment.

[exmrvfc 0]

Can anyone comment on why the Commisioners rejected the nomination?? The article did not state the reason.

[Guest MRK303]

stupid politics from the past!!!

[mfc2257 464]

I served proudly as Lieutenant and eventually Captain under Walter Quast. I can honestly say that out of the several departments and states that I served as a firefighter or officer in, that Walter Quast was one of the two best chiefs that I ever served under HANDS DOWN. He is a no BS get it done type of chief. A man who led by example both by his actions while being a chief and by his historical actions as a superior fire fighter.

The men who the commissioners would prefer to be chief were scared of their own shadow as firefighters and horrible chiefs whom the majority of the firefighters had no confidence in.

On the other hand of all the elected officials that I had playing big brother, the Millwood Fire Commissioners were/are HANDS DOWN the worst. I cannot comment on Angelo Indusi or the other most recently elected member of the commissioners (a citizen who is new to the fire service altogether) because they took office after my departure for Florida, but the remainder of the commissioners have absolutely NO CLUE as to what is in the best interest of providing fire-rescue services to the tax payers and visitors of the fire district OR more importantly keeping firefighters safe. Being on the board of commissioners appears to be a way for them to feel important OR get their friends who were crappy fire chiefs re elected.

To be completely honest, if you took a vote of the Millwood Firefighters who are active, train, actually respond to calls, etc (I’m ruling out the folks who claim to be FF’s but really never show up to big jobs and stand at the back during drills talking about nothing important). I’ll bet that the vast majority would offer a publically affirmed vote to confirm Walter Quast AND simultaneously deliver a vote of “no confidance” in the commissioners.

By the way if the commissioners listen to the folks that they would prefer to hold office, E-245 (ex TS-2) will be replaced with a Tower Ladder and not a reasonable piece of apparatus like NWP’s or Mohegan’s 75ft Quints.

[Guest]

You would think that after all the members of the Millwood VOLUNTEER Fire Department do for their community, they would at least build a firehouse that would benefit the membrs and equipment for the future. These days towns and villages are getting bigger and all the boards keep trying to do is downsize. ( NOT A GOOD IDEA ). maybe the board members should come join the members and see how deserving their members are. The members are intitled to elect a fire Chief that they feel is qualified and their decision should be final. I find it unfair for the board or commissioners to be able to change the elected person that has been nominated or have won an election. WALTER QUAST IS A GREAT MAN AND AN EXCELLENT, AND WELL LIKED FIREMAN AND EX CHIEF. IF THE MEMBERS WANT HIM THEN HE SHOULD BE THE ASSITANT CHIEF.

Edited May 22, 2006 by ccbub31

[TRUCK6018 50]

I suppose it is because you need to have some knowledge base in order to effectively serve the district in a commissioner's capacity...

←

If this was the case, why doesn't the commissioner of the largest fire department in the world have any knowledge of fire fighting operations? (Hint: Mr. Magoo).

The answer: commissioner is a civilian posistion.

E-245 (ex TS-2) will be replaced with a Tower Ladder and not a reasonable piece of apparatus like NWP’s or Mohegan’s 75ft Quints.

Just what that part of the county needs is another tower ladder.

[Guest]

Honestly I think the minimal arial any department should have should be 100'. With the wires and the hieght they are making buildings these days, you need to get as high as you can safely.

Edited May 23, 2006 by ccbub31

[Guest ewsmith70]

Honestly  I  think  the  minimal  arial  any  department  should  have  should  be  100'.  With  the  wires  and  the  hieght  they  are  making  buildings  these  days,  you  need  to  get  as  high  as  you  can  safely.

←

Well there's plenty of places a 75' with a single rear axle and better turning radius will get which is especially important in a community with tight streets and no buildings over 4 stories. There are obviously places where a 75' is appropriate. The 100' is useless if it can't get in the block.

[Guest]

Truck,

I'm aware it's a civilian position, however, a responsible and effective commissioner needs to have some knowledge of the service - just like a town housing commissioner needs to know about zoning, building construction, etc....

My point is that in a lot of small suburbs there are not a lot of people with qualifications to be commissioners - hence the reason for so many fire dept. members to be commissioners.

[Guest Rich DD]

Rich, I understand your opinion on a commissioner being a confilict of interest while also a firefighter of the same department.  From a legal standpoint it isn't because as a firefighter, they have no decision making capacity.  They are only one voice within a department when issues need a majority vote.  On the fireground, they have no decision makeing capacity period! 

It could be benificial to departments to have outside commissioners as stated.  They would (hopefully) be able to remain unbiased when it comes to certain issues.  I've seen to many times that commissioners have their own agendas and things go bad. 

Commissioners have to remember that while acting as a commissioner they are civilians, not uniformed officers, not firefighters.  They need to keep in mind what's best for everyone involved, not just the department or the public and expecially not themselves.

←

I think I went to some sort of extreme here. Let me clarify my point.

In the Fire District I am involved in, (on the Volunteer side), most of the Commissioners are or were firefighters at some point.

That being said, I have seen certain "wants" purchased without the publics best interest at hand.

But I have to agree with Res6cue and Truck6018 that it is beneficial to have these firefighters in as Commissioners. Just for the sole fact that the Fire Chief needs that kind of support, and the for-thought that only a firefighter could have when deciding to puchase equipment necessary for the Department. I myself would not want the Fire Chief banging his head against the wall trying to explain every detail of a piece of equipment. He/she should only have to "sell" the reasons why the Department needs to purchase the equipment.

Now.. getting back to the topic at hand.

Commissioners who have no clue as to what quilifications a fire chief are, should not be voicing an un-educated opinion. Like I said before, if the Commissioners are in fact present, or past firefighters, then their opinions/votes would be valid, considering that they have first hand knowledge on the subject.

Sorry if I am boring you guys!

[TRUCK6018 50]

Commissioners who have no clue as to what quilifications a fire chief are, should not be voicing an un-educated opinion. 

Sorry if I am boring you guys!

←

Not boring at all!

Commissioners that don't know the qualifications of chief should read their own rules and regulations (assuming they have them). It is up to the commissioners to set the qualifications. If there are districts that don't have qualifications for chief officers it's time to get off the pot. In this day an age it's important to have some sort of standard in place to hold the chief accountable. I don't mean qualifications that you had to be lieut and captain. Qualifications that should include specific training classes (more than FF1).

[firecapt32 282]

why are you allupset?? we elect people every year to positions they know nothing about. even presidents!!!! so it shouldnt come as a complete surprise that some one dosent know a lot about a position. But they are the elected officials ---elected to run the fire district--the whole fire district up to and including who the chief is. im sure that it is in their charge whenthey take the oath of office.

the secratery (sorry for the spelling) is a civilian not a miltary person

same for the navy. out president never saw combat, neither did the vice president-- so again whats the surprise.

just my thoughts

[ex-commish 490]

Not boring at all!

Commissioners that don't know the qualifications of chief should read their own rules and regulations (assuming they have them).  It is up to the commissioners to set the qualifications.  If there are districts that don't have qualifications for chief officers it's time to get off the pot.  In this day an age it's important to have some sort of standard in place to hold the chief accountable.  I don't mean qualifications that you had to be lieut and captain.  Qualifications that should include specific training classes (more than FF1).

←

There are two books in NY that a new commisioner and new chief should read....one is the blue book which is the fire district officers guide which spells out soup to nuts how to run a district as well as what qualifications should be.

The other one of for chief's produced by NYSAFC which is currently under revision. It spells out what a chief is responsible for as well as qualifications for all officers.

Both books are a must and also referecne many laws such as general municipal, town law, etc.

[Guest jostilos]

A chief should have more then just having to have 8 years in the department, and as stated before, served as a line officer and have taken firefighters essentials back in 1974 and make 30% of last years alarms and now he can say I am the chief of department. And maybe in there is should have that one should have a High School Diploma.

[EJS1810 7]

And maybe in there is should have that one should have a High School Diploma.

←

So should some of the posters.

[hudson144 150]

if the board of fire commissioners,wardens,trustees etc were made up of citizens from the communitys then the fire depts would have a rude awakening. Just think of ordinary people spending money wisely- no $50,000 chiefs cars,no $1,000,000 tower ladders,no $8000 inspections,no duplication of apparatus(neighboring dept has same rig and never uses it) department might be a little more accountable for the taxpayers money being spent!!!

[firecapt32 282]

there you go hudson!!! what a concept mabey there is someting in the water for the dogs!!! good luck!!

[TRUCK6018 50]

There are two books in NY that a new commisioner and new chief should read....one  is the blue book which is the fire district officers guide which spells out soup to nuts how to run a district as well as what qualifications should be.

The other one of for chief's produced by NYSAFC which is currently under revision. It spells out what a chief is responsible for as well as qualifications for all officers.

Both books are a must and also referecne many laws such as general municipal, town law, etc.

←

I'd like to ad one book to your list. The Fire Service Laws of the State of New York. It's published by Lexis Nexis in conjunction with FASNY. It contains any and all laws pertaining to the fire service in New York State.

if the board of fire commissioners,wardens,trustees etc were made up of citizens from the communitys then the fire depts would have a rude awakening. Just think of ordinary people spending money wisely- no $50,000 chiefs cars,no $1,000,000 tower ladders,no $8000 inspections,no duplication of apparatus(neighboring dept has same rig and never uses it) department might be a little more accountable for the taxpayers money being spent!!!

And that would be a bad idea?

[mfc2257 464]

The men and women of the Millwood Fire Company don't need a rude awakening. They need a good 2nd assistant chief to command their response and keep them safe.

They chose a good chief through a vote. The commissioners denied thier vote and offered no reason (because there isn't a legitimate one).

The rude awakening that needs to take place is with the commissioners. Their job is to provide fire protection to the district and to protect the interests of the taxpayers. One could argue that over the past 5 years they haven't done a good job at either.

Not confirming the company's vote for asst. chief is yet another example of the commissioners looking out for themselves (they want a chief that will roll over and play dead when they stomp their feet) and not looking out for the best interest of the taxpayers and the safety of the FF's.

Don't get me wrong, I would understand if there was a legit reason for the denial of the ff's choice for chief. BUT THERE ISN'T a good reason here.

They are cowards.

[TRUCK6018 50]

The "rude awakening" comment was not (on my part) made specifically towards Millwood. I can think of many departments/districts that it would apply to.

[Guest Rich DD]

The men and women of the Millwood Fire Company don't need a rude awakening.  They need a good 2nd assistant chief to command their response and keep them safe.

They chose a good chief through a vote.  The commissioners denied thier vote and offered no reason (because there isn't a legitimate one).

The rude awakening that needs to take place is with the commissioners.  Their job is to provide fire protection to the district and to protect the interests of the taxpayers.  One could argue that over the past 5 years they haven't done a good job at either.

Not confirming the company's vote for asst. chief is yet another example of the commissioners looking out for themselves (they want a chief that will roll over and play dead when they stomp their feet) and not looking out for the best interest of the taxpayers and the safety of the FF's.

Don't get me wrong, I would understand if there was a legit reason for the denial of the ff's choice for chief.  BUT THERE ISN'T a good reason here.

They are cowards.

←

Here..... here!!!! I couldn't have said it better!!!