FAS Teams Not Being Called

[DMA327 12]

Structure fire in Ossining yesterday and nobody called a FAS Team for that either. Confirmed basement fire. I don't get why some people don't call a FAST just to be other safe side. Well at least for their own members safety!

[LCFD968 10]

It has been 7 months since the last post has been made on this subject. I figured lets visit it again. Is there still a problem or has it gotten better? Being involved with several structure fires in the last few years (exept for the last one because I was working- no comments Ejs1810) The standard practice is to call a FASTeam to a structure fire sometimes they are not needed and sometimes they get put to work (like at the recent fire in Lake Carmel) and it is always reassuring that they(Brewster FASTeam)are there. As an Officer it is good feeling that someone is watching over my men/women and myself and they are there if needed.

Our Team has been in service for approx. 8 months and we have only been called once. With Patterson, Carmel , East Fishkill, Mahopac and Kent you would think that after Neuner and all the deaths that we read about or hear in training classes that it would be more in the back of everybodies mind.WHY? Why is it not automatic?

I know a room and content fire is "routine"but in this day and age there is no routine.

[E64PCFD2044 1]

I think FAST is great, and within Westchester County, I hear a FAST getting dispatched all the time whenever the first unit on scene says smoke showing or 10-75 or equivilant...LCFD968, the FAST is for us...if one of us goes down, the FAST is there..if you need them for firefighting(say you request an add'l company for manpower but FAST is there and you use them first, call another FAST)..just like you said..if they are there, then they will be put to work. IMHO, a FAST should always be at a structure fire or any other situation where FFs are in danger...No fire is ever routine..neither is an 'Automatic Alarm'

[emt301 4]

With regards to East Fishkill (which was mentioned by LCFD968)...East Fishkill automatically has a FASTeam dispatched upon transmission of a 2'nd alarm. Usually the FASTeam is from Village of Fishkill. By the way, just about anytime there's a working fire in East Fishkill, a 2'nd alarm is transmitted, ensuring the response of the FASTeam and all of East Fishkill's tankers/mutual aid tankers.

[LCFD968 10]

I did fail to mention that when Brewter was put to work, East Fishkill's FAST was called to the scene at our recent structure. emt301, Any FAST dispatched for 1st alarm? or do they wait until 2nd alarm?

[Guest irishfire]

my opion is call FAST team and have them respond what is the worst you could do Cancel them in route. I Would rather have Fast team respond know that someone is there for your safty. Why Wait it does not hurt to have them respond to the scene. Stupid no to call them it is like not want to take a million dollar that is give to u.

Use what u have Take what u can get.

[LCFD968 10]

100% right irishfire.Call them and if not needed put them back in service. I would rather be in route to a call as FASTeam and canceled then not being called and have to be needed. (if that makes any sense).

[x648eng119 2]

It makes plenty of sense. It can't hurt to send them. A good motto to live by, "when in doubt, send 'em out." At least get them started

I know DMA327 would agree with me....10-75 FAST TEAM, FAST TEAAAAAAMMMMM!!!

(Inside Joke)

[emt301 4]

LCFD....

It's been my experience that East Fishkill waits until a 2'nd alarm is declared before getting a FASTeam...but like I said, unless it's a residential room & contents fire that "should" be a quick knockdown, the 2'nd alarm is declared very quickly upon arrival with automatic dispatching of FAST, additional tankers, back-filling of stations, etc.

In fact, if Dutchess 911 advises the initial responding units that they're receiving multiple calls on a particular fire, many times a responding chief will upgrade to a 2'nd alarm before even getting on scene, thereby getting the ball rolling on additional resources.

In general, our chiefs do a very good job watching our backs with the FASTeams.

[LCFD968 10]

Makes sense. thats why it so important for a good dispatch because ever second counts.

[Guest]

top what you are doing,try to locate your portable that is inder your turnout coat(covered with your air pack straps)take off your glove to locate that small button in the dark,OK CHIEF, I'M ON CH-2 WHAT OTHER TRICKS WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO DO!?????????????

First why is your radio covered by airpack straps. How about your mic sitting up at the top by your neck where you just grab it to answer. as far as switching channels there are 2 things you can do A. use a radio strap so the radio is at your hip and its not blocked or

B. cary it in the radio pocket on your coat if you have one attached then just have the mic clipped to your collar

Also you donn't need to take off your glove inside of a house which is on fire to switch channels. just turn the radio channel knob. your gloves should fit so that you can grip something. If not get a pair that will fit

[xchief2x 79]

I believe FAST?RIT aren't called is that there are a number of Chief Officers that don't understand the concept of a team or the team's function on the fireground. Our Team policy is to make it as safe as possible for the crews working the fire by giving them options for a hasty retreat, we will ladder the building, take out windos or even make a door our of a window. It is my belief and that of my TEAM that we are "THE ULTIMATE SAFETY OFFICER" on any call to which we respond. If our TEAM is asked to go to work at a job we will request the host IC to request another team. We have been criticized by some area Chiefs that we bring too many people and that we get there too fast, well if a rescue of a trapped brother is needed there may not be enough people ( read up on some of the studies done on removing a downed firefighter), getting htere too quick, well I am proud to say as the Commanding Officer of our TEAM that when my guys hear a structure fire in the area they will report to the firehouse so they are there, geared up and ready to roll if called. We are planning an educational session for other departments/Chief Officers for the 1st Monday in May, more info will follow. CHIEFS remember the most valuable tool and the only irreplaceable tool you have are your firefighters, everyone goes home!

[Guest WCDES636]

A thing to remember is that The Department of Emergency Services CAD division can set up and automatic run card for Working fires (10-75) It will tell the dispatchers at 60 control, bases on your departments specifications, what to automaticlly dispatch.

Such things on the run card could include Engines, trucks, FAST, Field Comm etc.

For those of you not dispatched by 60 Control, you could set up a similar automatic response through your dispatch.

[Guest DFFD227]

According to the Westchester County updated 10 code sheet, 10-75 is a valid code and does mean all hands working fire.

[Guest SQUADco119]

This whole fast team conversation is touchy feely. I think its great that everyone here is discussing about . I here people always tell me when i ask them why wasnt a fast called and ill get an answer that they didnt have,i didnt think of it, it also depends on the sitiuation on the fireground. whos in command do they know about fast teams do they know what there for do they even know they exist? Some times the fire is so small its under control before the fast can be requested. there are so many factors involved that i agree with DMA327 that a fast should be started out anytime theres a structure fire of any kind reported. Also another topic i would like to touch is why do we think that FAST is only for structure fires. does it sound like im getting way to involved maybe but think about it im not saying have a fast on every call you go to that ivolves the word fire like a brush fire or car fire etc but for structural related emergincies where FF's are operating inside under danger like a wether it be for a car into bulding and theres structural damage and FF's are involved in disantanglement/extracation, or any other incidents. Yes i understand its the commands call and yes somethimes it does sound like theres one needed but you find out later on that its not fine but your better off having someone there who is trained,ready,willing to make it safe for your guys on scene and godforbid go into rescue. Also people are getting tunnel vision on this subject. FAST is not always activated when on scene for a mayday, you may find later in time that a firefighter is missing and unaccounted for well into the operation and is nowhere to be found what do you do? Just like everyone else here we all want to go home after a call so having a fast there is just another way of increasing the chances you will go home if you need assistance on scene.http://' target="_blank">

[CG206 29]

I could not agree more with the fact that FAST is not just for structural fires....On 8/13/04, Mohegan FD requested Yorktown's FAST to the scene of a HAZMAT incident. The reason for this was that members of Mohegan and the HAZMAT Team were operating in a very volatile atmosphere inside a large commercial structure.

[Guest]

When ever you have a working incident there is a requirement for fast/rit team to be in place.

It doesnn't necessarly need to be a working fire. haz-mat, trench,special rescue. there needs to be a rit/fast team in place for all these incidents. You should not have to request it. it should be an automatic. as wellas who ever is the closest.60 control should just go ahead and dispatch it

[LCFD968 10]

60 control, 40 control, 45 control,etc..... They should all be dispatching FAST to any big incident. According to NFPA it is requirement to have fully equipped crew on location incase of an emergency. So why not have it automaticly dispatched?

[Remember585 815]

Because every Department and every IC wants something different every single day at every single alarm.

[doug_e 0]

While responding to an alarm this afternoon I was thinking about what to do if I ran up on a 10-75. I wondered how much hot water I'd be in if I called the 10-75 and then immediately called for Millwood's FAST. Of course I was imagining the place rolling. It seemed prudent to me to ask as early as possible for the FAST assignment to get them there ASAP.

It might not be a bad idea as an SOG to allow the first arriving unit to get the jump on it.

By the way - at the alarm we were responding to - 10-16... :roll:

[Guest]

well were you the first one on scene? were you in your jurisdiction? If you were you are the IC. Therefore you are in charge untill relieved face to face by someone of a higher rank. It's there choice wether or not to take command. They donn't have to

[pjm1733 22]

This thread is a lot like another in ems- fire communications. I was recently involved with upgrading our cad system with incident types and automatic upgrades. Previous to the upgrade, we had one incident type and you would select the appropriate apparatus to send. With the new upgrade, we came up with 20 incident types. Type in the incident say its "structure fire" This starts the ball rolling on 1st contact with the 1st caller. Automatically the cad reccomends the right and enough appartus for that incident type on the initial alarm. 2nd and 3rd alarm upgrades if needed. The IC will then designate what apparatus would be Fast Team-RIT- FART-or what ever name is being used this week.

WCDE talks about run cards they really should be done by all departments. Get everything rolling in the incipient stage. You can always send them back if not needed.

A local news paper reporter often writes how the Fire Chief arrived on scene confirmed a working fire and sounded a general alarm. I wonder if this is how the public thinks a call is handled ?

4 bits worth

about fitty cent

[LCFD968 10]

Because every Department and every IC wants something different every single day at every single alarm.

FAST should be as automatic as an "Engine to structure fire".With a structure fire, automatic alarm or even a PIAA there is a certain order there is first due, second due.etc.... know mater what of day or what time.

[Remember585 815]

The problem with the whole FAST/RIT thing is a lack of understanding.

Here's a list of misconceptions and incorrect statements that I have heard.

1. A FAST needs to be called only to the "real big fires."

2. A FAST is only for structure fires.

3. We provide our own FAST.

4. We wait until it is a confirmed fire to call for a FAST.

5. Our FAST responds with a certain rig just so they can be "put to work."

6. We don't call Department A's FAST because they bring too many guys.

7. We only call Department X's FAST because if we don't, then they won't call us to their next fire.

Here's some insight and truths.

1. If you are committing your personnel to an operation that you have not yet placed under control - you still have the potential for disaster! Even an exterior attack can injure firefighters, IE wall collapses, falling building parts, etc. Don't think because it is a "surround and drown" fire that nothing can go wrong!

2. OSHA regulations require a 2 in / 2 out commitment at any incident involving an IDLH environment. We have used a FAST at Haz-Mat incidents and Technical Rescue calls. Think outside of the box...

3. Providing your own FAST is fine - if you can truly do it. I know the bigger career FD's will assign a FAST unit from their initial assignment, and this is great. Just make sure you know you have the equipment and manpower on scene to take on a Firefighter Rescue. Also take into consideration the mental trauma that can and will affect those trying to rescue or recover one of their own.

4. Why wait? If you are calling in a Mutual Aid FAST, you should get them going on the initial assignment. There's Departments in Westchester that have special assignments for special calls. Some add an extra Truck, others Tankers - but nobody has a FAST?! If you are thinking ahead enough to get these resources going, then start out a FAST too! Even the fastest teams need time to prepare. Remember, you can cancel those you don't need!

5. "No we don't," may be a response to this. It's been mentioned to me several times from people in several Departments in several areas that they will respond with a specific rig in hopes that the IC will use them for the suppression efforts. Pardon my language, but this is such BullSh-t! You are being called as a FAST - whose sole purpose is to look out for your commrades. And to those IC's calling these FAST units just to put them to work - shame on you!!! NIOSH reports indicate that having a dedicated FAST may make the difference in a MAYDAY situation. If that FAST you called is doing other things - feel free to explain that to the dead firefighter's family.

6. This one hits close to home for me. Many, MANY case studies have shown that crews of 10, 12, and sometimes more are needed to effectively rescue a downed brother. If you don't believe me, read studies done in Phoenix and other areas. Sure, some incidents may take less, but if it's that one time that you need the 10 guys and only 4 are there - too late to second guess someone!

7. I am not going to elaborate on this one. If you have a competent, qualified FAST that is right next door, CALL THEM. Calling a team from 3 towns away just so they call your Truck to their next fire or because you're drinking buddies is intolerable. Do the right thing - everytime. Nay say the nay-sayers, but if it's your a** on the line, you better make the right decision!!

[LCFD968 10]

You have hit the nail right on the head. Type it up and send it out to all the departments in our area. Have the Chiefs sign off on it that they understand.

[mfc2257 464]

John (585)

Unfortunatly I haven't been in the area in about a month and haven't been checking these forums as much, but I'm glad to see that we still agree on so many points including this one. You couldn't have said it better.

Too many departments are using their FAS Teams as political and social tools instead of for what they are intended for. I've been a FAST member in Westchester as long as anyone else, and we always (like Croton and a few others) focused on going as a trained and equiped FAST crew, not an engine, truck or rescue company hoping to get put to work because we brought the right piece of apparatus to show off. A FAST crew is there to provide the safest possible enviorment for the engine, truck, rescue and support crews that are already working. They are multiple extra sets of eyes for the IC and Safety officer AND if god forbid they have to get activated to save one of their own, they know as much about the structure and situation as the IC so that they can work efficiently and produce a favorable outcome for their brothers in need.

It doesn't matter if they arrived with a pickup truck with a bed full of FAST equipment, or if the same equipement came on a trophy winning piece of apparatus, when that equipment is layed on the ground behind the IC and those FF's are poised and ready to act, that is when a FAST team is ready to do it's job... NOT when they are sitting and hoping to catch the second roof assignement or pull a line through the back door. The sole mental and organizational focus for a FAST crew should be on the potential rescue of a FF not on why they don't get to play at that particular job.

[Guest SQUADco119]

2257 said it best thats what its all about thats why it started and if your intentions arent that then you shouldnt be involved in fast