WCFTC- Things on the move

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I just wanted to take the time to say that I am honestly impressed with the way things have been on the move at the training center. We are surely proceeding into what the FTC should have been quite a while ago. The new propane simulators give realistic and unique training. The residential structural firefighting simulator has been running for a while and the county has added several CFI's and fulfilled 2 SFI positions to assist with what surely will be a growing demand with all that is going on. Rumor has it that the next project may be a new Class A combustible building and that it may be a high rise type building. Either way, now that we are catching up to other surrounding FTC's I hope to see many of you in classes and drills. The more demand there is...the more you will see. The training center has some of the strongest and diverse instructors you can find, as well as under the leadership of very experienced and dedicated managers. USE IT!!!

[x635 4,066]

Definetly catching up, and it's been a long long time in the making. Some great improvments.

Some of the things though, is the center still gets crowded and parking is a PIA. Also,when you've been there 1000 times, diversity is key.

I'd like to personally see the county invest in a FTC for the northern sector of the county. Maybe have a different layout, and also could accomodate tanker operations, as well as other situations.

Although Valhalla is very central, I think that a North TC would not only reduce travel time, but reduce crowding in Valhalla, as well as adding some more props and different scenarios.

[TRUCK6018 50]

Although Valhalla is very central, I think that a North TC would not only reduce travel time, but reduce crowding in Valhalla, as well as adding some more props and  different scenarios.

Since the county started holding classes in Katonah, we have had members more interested in taking classes. The only thing the students go to Valhalla for is the live fire evolutions.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Additionally, it has been brought to my attention that Camp Smith will also be used as a training satellite as well. As with Katonah, there will be times where the class will still have to meet in Valhalla to perform certain types of evolutions that camp smith is not equipped to accustom nor do effectively.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Also in regards to Seth's comments about having a northern TC. The one thing to keep in mind is that the more you have the more it cost to maintain. Throw in the logistics factor of additional instructors to facilitate and run courses and eventually you will run into funding problems. Much like depts. with mulitiple firehouses. Its often more easier to maintain a central house then mulitple ones. There is talk of fixing the pond at the FTC to make it deeper and to line it for to get more flow for drafting, as well as moving the equipment for pump testing outside opening up the building for more uses, on top of the hopes of getting a new mask confidence course and the main house is getting to where it needs to be. I'm all for diversity here and there, but I'm more for the the things we will see the most and often have the most problems with.

[x635 4,066]

I still think the FTC in Valhalla is way too crowded. I'm dont really think ultimately it has to be too big of a facility, but maybe a couple of classrooms and a multi-function building, maybe in a small section of a park or highway depot. Other benefits could include a Northern Operations center for disaster preparedness.

For a County that lavishes themselves in other wasteful projects, the cost for building and mainting this facilty is naught. As far as instructors go, its not that big of a hardship if you work it out logically.

However, whenever operations are centralized, it cheaper. So the county needs to look at more land on the Grasslands reservation or somewhere else, because space there, and with projected future use....is at a premium.

[WAS967 97]

Now if only EMS training could catch up to the fire training. II'm not expecting too much am I?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

WAS...lol..not that I haven't said that also, but we are talking about the Fire Training Center. The region has their trailers....lol.

[BFD1054 1,552]

I'm definately glad to see that the FTC is on the right track, its about time! I'm glad to see that the new propane tree and the railroad car evolutions are finally completed! It seemed like it took forever to get those things done, which i guess is understandable. I'm also happy to hear that they have hired more instructors and that there has been more classes offered. The one thing that is aggravating is that class sizes are usually limeted to 20 or so students. Theres what, like 50 something depts. in Westchester? Thoses numbers aren't so good, it would be nice to see if they could somehow accept more students.

As Seth said, our county spends insane ammounts of money on some pretty lame projects! For a county as high-profile as Westchester, you'd think they'd spend more money on their emergency-service providers! I mean, we are one of the richest counties in the country, but they need to start using that money wisely. The county prides themselves on "disaster preparedness," and says how we're ready and trained for disasters, terrorist attacks and haz-mat situations, but are we really? Every so often i'll catch clips on News12 of FD's training for such emergencies and practicing Decon and all this other great stuff. The one problem i see is that the FD's they show are the large career depts. from the southern county. I am not at all against career FD's or bashing them at all, as they should train as well. My problem is that in an emergency, they have crews on-duty, who have state of the art equipment. What about the small volunteer FD's who don't get to train everyday and don't have the equipment and manpower that the carrer depts. have. Also, its great to know that the southern county is somewhat ready, but the county should't forget about us up north. I mean, i know a lot of it comes down to poitics, which is BS, but it happens. My point is, the one place that scares the hell out of everyone is here in the northern county, Indian Point. There should be more training and drills with the smaller local departments that would respond there in an emergency. If there were an emergency there, everyone and their mother would respond, but we'd still be the first responders.

Again, i apoogize, i have a tendency to ramble. Like i said, i am glad to see the county going in the right direction in terms of the FTC, but theres still a long way to go! And like WAS967 mentioned EMS, there should be more training opportunities for EMS providers in the county, but thats a whole different can of worms.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

BFD,

Very well spoken. I'm sure it may be frustrating to see the limits set for the number of students. However, the amount of students allowed is set by the state in their curriculums. This is basically to ensure the correct amount of student to instructor ratios, as well as safety when it comes to classes that also require hands on. It will get better when the new group is finally put on as CFI's, paperwork outside of DES takes forever. Also, as far as the other training goes for speciality type stuff, you have leadership, you have county legislative representation when's the last time you heard anyone let them know how you all feel and how things really are instead of smiling and joking with them when they come to parades?

[RES20CUE 40]

By the time the county decides to get of it's a**es, "the new hires" will be "old timers".

The new hires, still are not teaching yet!

I'm sure the August instructor's conference is full, seeing how the registration deadline was July 1st, so even if the county did do something within the next couple of weeks, the "new instructors" still will not be certified for the state courses. (unless, some other "new hires" like myself, had another route to go to Montour in August, already registered, and paid for themselves!!)

Then, as some of us (als and hudson) know, you may as well forget about the October conference unless you've been around a while- that fills so fast, it makes your head spin.

I'm not trying to sound pesimistic, or shoot down anyone's hopes- but again promises, promises and still no action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest alsfirefighter]

I only go in Oct. and Feb. I will be there this Oct as well, however I definately have the inside tract for now on....lol. In fact their were 4 of us from my dept. alone last Oct and it was a great time. I'm not even sure how many CFI's are certified to teach any of the new FF series so it may take a bit to get some more into the train the trainers to get them done. Hopefully I'll be getting a FF I off the ground soon under my SFI bill, hopefully and soon are the key words. lol.

[BFD1054 1,552]

als...thanks for all of the info, i'm just glad to see that the FTC is heading in the right direction after all this time! The FTC is a great resource and its great to see that things are changing (for the better) and that things are being added, such as the new propane tree. As i have said in past posts, and other people feel the same, training is everything & if you are not training, then you are not prepared! Training is something that we should all be doing as much of as possible, it can't hurt and you certainly can never train too much! The more that FD's use the FTC, the better it will get and the more they will add, that goes for Camp Smith as well.

Als, you also made mention of a new mask confidence course i believe, i can't wait to see that! I think the one that is there now is pretty decent, however i think i know the layout like the back of my hand now lol! So it will be good to see a new course, maybe bigger, better? So, as you have been, please keep us all posted on the updates at the FTC, als.

[RES20CUE 40]

Well, I'm back from a real exciting week in Montour Falls! :roll:

I did my bridge over for the new SSO/FFI/FFII series as well as some other "good stuff".

I also signed up for the Oct conference.

Still have not heard anything on teaching at the county yet!!

[firecapt32 282]

Every thing said has its merit concerning the FTC new Instructors are about to come on line. Right now theFTC has completed 3FF1 classes. 2 more are in the process of completion. 3 more are scheduled fo rthe fall. Along with other State classes

The Instructoors are doing the best they can, running classes both during the day and evening remember FF1 is 78 hours.

The class size is determined by the State and 20 is a workable number--- no one can "hide"

For Thoses of you in the Northern section just ask I'm sure a whole night can be set asside for your department if not a Saturday.If thats not enough Montour Falls can arrange a" Department weekend "for your department.

Its 2004 guys training is the key to a sucessfull department,. We are all in this togeather.

[firecapt32 282]

one more comment useing the training center is the most valueable tool a department can have. You want diversity--- the burn simnlator can be use for at least over 30 different uses =--from one line attacts to multie line to ladder use to- cellar fires . you just need encouragement and the man power to use it right.

I urge all departments to come to the new improved Training center its your tax dollars use it and use it right.

[DMA327 12]

I think the new advances in the Westchester County Fire Training Center are great. The new props are great and the rail car looks good.

However, I don't know why they didn't spend that money putting in a Class A burn building. The rail car is great and everything, but I think the money would have been much more well spent on something else, cause lets face it, nobody is hopefully not going anywhere close to a rail car on fire, no less operating a handline up close to it. Any input?

[Guest alsfirefighter]

The rail car also gives input on how to operate at a highway type propane carrier as well. Not to mention that the rail car was donated. The propane burn house was already in place, and while that has its pro's/cons it was already there. And yes in the event that type of situation occurs, someone is going to have to place handlines in operation to prevent BLEVE which will cause a even bigger problem wherever that tank decides to land. It is just another operation that makes people think. And hopefully it won't be too long before we will have another Class A burn building with multiple floors, one that will be used correctly and not as a let's see how hot we can get it for em', so it cuts its operational usage in half. Burn buildings are not all about heat, its about providing semi-realistic conditions to evaluate operations. They don't shoot at cops to train them in fire and maneuver, the military doesn't drop artillary rounds (not on purpose anyway :roll: ) on recruits and on CAX's to train them in proper cover. So why do we feel we have a need to get a room over 1,000 degrees, all the while every basic operation during the burn is going badly or done flat wrongly?

[Guest rreimund]

als,

I'd be interested to hear more of your take on the current burn building and maybe some of its deficiencies..

I was just over there last night with my department, and thought it was pretty good.. Worlds better than shooting a line in an empty room. In any case, I'm curious to know what you see, with more experience than I.. We may be able to modify our training and use of the building to get the most out of it.

[DMA327 12]

ALS, I definately agree with your points on a "BLEVE" situation and proper placement of handlines, however I do not feel that in a situation where a rail car has caught fire thay any firefighter will be moving in on a handline.

I know that you know that its going to be a deluge gun Operation, but then why do they teach firefighters to move in on a handline when a tank is flaming. Any input?

PS I heard some plans for the multi-story Class A building and that would be great.

I also agree a lot with your point on instructors going to the point where training gets dangerous because some guys like to get the fire too hot and somebody is gonna get hurt that way. I know of people who have cracked their Cairns 10-10 helmets in a training evolution and thats a bit over the top!

Sorry for rambling lol!

[John Meeker Jr 0]

You are moving in only if the tank is not flaming but the piping or adjoining fixtures have failed and are burning. You move in to shut off the supply and contain the fire by eliminating the fuel.

If there is no shut off don't bother

[DMA327 12]

If that's flaming, I'll let someone else move in and shut it off LOL

:wink:

[Guest alsfirefighter]

Why do we train them to move in? Someone has to set up the deluge (deck guns). That is what I was referring too, and I wan't overy detailed abou that so I can see why you deciphered it the way you did. If you have a situation where the aforementioned scenarios take place near or in the middle of a populated area, which all our rail lines run through residential and commericial areas, you have to size up the situation and get water on the tank(s) to cool them. Regardless of what is or isn't burning, you either or using the water as a cooling agent and/or a agent to reduce ignition sources. All you want to ensure is that you do not put out any fires that are burning gas off, your objective is cooling. Yes we don't have many freight trains that run through the Hudson Line, but we do get them.

Also in regards to the pro/cons of the current burn building I will get into that shortly due to lack of time this evening. However, the person whom asked me to divulge into that more, also stated in his post that it beats shooting water into an empty room. That has nothing to do with what I was stated in my post prior to that. My opinions are based on propane vs. class A combustible burn buildings. As many of you whom know me as an instructor know, I do not believe in acquired structure live fire, and in fact it is not allowed for any state sponsored courses.

[DMA327 12]

Very valuable points made. We cannot let a whole section of residential area go up in a puff of smoke and not do anything about it.

I feel that it is also good training because a lot of people, when seeing flames blowing out the relief valve try to put out the flames which is the worst thing possible because then you have vapors pouring out all over, waiting for an ignition source to go KABOOM! NOT GOOD!

Thanks for the input and i look foward to hearing about the Class A burn building.

[firecapt32 282]

The rail car was a no cost item for the County.Lets not forget it can also be used as a hiway tanker!!!

Just in case some of you dont relalize , ther are many miles of both rail road tracks and highways in the County, im betting that 3/4 of the departments in Westchester have either RR lines or a major Highway with in their boundaries.

Useing the lines on the tanker gives the I.C. the ability to test his department under "working condition" and still have safety .

The burn simulator is as close as we can get to real conditions and still keep the safty margine that we want. No its not like crawling down a burning hallway. but thers heat , fire, darkness, twists and turns, ups and downs. every thing we need to bring our firefighters the training that they need and again still have the safty margin we want.

the class A building is in the planning stages as well as a new mask confidence.

Its our Training center use it .

[BIGRED1 71]

Has anyone heard anything about them fixing up the high-rise? i know that there are a few apartment complex's in pelham and i think that if they could smoke (or burn, which would be great [-o< ) the high rise it could help in practiceing those tactics.

I did get to see the tanker car used last night and it was pretty sweet. I am hoping to use the propane tree sometime soon.

i would also like to say that the Instructors up there are all great guys and really know there stuff and make it fun. The key to good training is making the guys want to be there and keeping them involved. Last night in FF2, a group of 4 of us, all from Pelham Manor, went into the burn building and did are thing and got out. The instructor told us we did it perfectly and that are tactics were outstanding. thats what i want to hear as a vol., that i am getting it and we worked well as a team. i hope they don't stop renovating all the parts of the training center

[Guest rreimund]

Hehe.. nice.. yeah, that was us on the propane tank last night. Too bad we had so much trouble with it though.. some pilots lights would light when they wanted to, etc. so we spent a lot of time sitting back and waiting it to come on as they reset the system. We could have done twice the evolutions we did..