Dutchess FF's concerned about image

[Monty 35]

From the Poughkeepsie Journal

Tuesday, May 9, 2006

Ex-chief accused of setting brush fires

Police arrest Milan man

By Nik Bonopartis

Poughkeepsie Journal

MILAN — A decorated former fire chief was arrested Monday for allegedly setting nine brush fires, police and fire authorities said.

The arrest of Eric Thorley, 47, sent ripples of shock through the volunteer fire community as word spread.

Thorley was a founding member of the Milan Fire Department and served as a volunteer from 1974 until his arrest. He was chief from 1994-97.

He's charged with nine counts of arson and nine counts of reckless endangerment, all misdemeanors, according to state police at Rhinebeck and the Dutchess County Sheriff's Office.

The fires all happened within the past 2 1/2 months; the latest was just over a week ago.

Milan fire Chief Jeffrey Galm said Thorley has long been one of the department's most reliable members and "one of the last people I would ever expect to be involved."

Suspicions raised

Department officials contacted police because the fires were suspicious — they all started in grass and leaf debris and were in similar back-road locations. In the small volunteer fire community, word of suspicion against Thorley spread late last week, and Galm said fire officers from neighboring departments began calling to offer support to Milan firefighters.

"It's not an emotion of anger," he said of the firefighters' reaction, "it's more an emotion of disbelief and shock like we're feeling."

In 2005, Thorley was honored as one of the top local firefighters by the Exchange Club of Southern Dutchess. The club hands out annual awards to firefighters, paramedics and police officers for individual acts of heroism or long careers of distinguished service.

Greg Becker, the department's assistant chief, said in a statement the department's members were concerned for Thorley's "health and well-being" and said his family and friends in the department would support him, "to get the help he needs."

In a 2003 study, the U.S. Fire Administration said "a very small percentage of otherwise trustworthy firefighters cause the very flames they are dispatched to put out," but said there are no statistics on arson caused by firefighters, mostly because arson statistics are not kept in a similar manner by jurisdictions across the U.S. and because criminal reports on arson investigations usually don't include the occupation of suspects.

Drawing on research by the FBI, the fire administration's study said "the number one motive was excitement, especially among younger firefighters who were eager to put their training to practical use, and to be seen as heroes to fellow firefighters and the community they served." Thorley's case doesn't appear to match that profile, according to fire officials — he did not report the fires and did not rush to the fire scene to claim credit for putting out the fires, they said.

The study analyzed 75 firefighters who were responsible for 182 fires in the 1990s. Citing the lack of data, the study urged more research and education on the issue.

Thorley was arraigned and released after posting $1,000 bail.

Nik Bonopartis can be reached at nbonopar@poughkeepsiejournal.com

[Monty 35]

From Poughkeepsie Journal

Wednesday, May 10, 2006

Firefighters concerned about image

Ex-Milan chief faces arson charges

By Nik Bonopartis

Poughkeepsie Journal

With one of their own accused of setting a series of fires, members of the firefighting community said Tuesday they're concerned for the man's well-being — and for the image of the fire service.

Though many firefighters are holding out hope the charges aren't true, the arrest of former Milan fire Chief Eric Thorley on nine counts of arson Monday sparked conversations throughout firehouses and brought feelings of sadness and frustration.

"To me, it's an embarrassment for the fire service and the volunteers," former Arlington fire Chief John Richardson said. But, he added, "what we have is a situation with an alleged arsonist who, when you look at the thousands of volunteers in Dutchess County, probably fits in statistically with the same number of arsonists who aren't firefighters."

Milan fire officials did the right thing by reporting their suspicions immediately to police when they noticed patterns in the brush fires, said Heather Schafer, executive director of the National Volunteer Fire Council.

Her organization encourages fire departments to cooperate fully with investigators and says they should review a variety of warning signs to identify potential arsonists. But it's not easy to spot trouble because of the unusual nature of the crime.

"It's not something we hear about on a regular basis," Schafer said. "When we do hear about it, it's highlighted because it is not something we expect."

Thorley, 47, had been a volunteer for more than 31 years and was a founding member of the department. He was chief from 1994-97. Those facts go against the trends observed by the U.S. Fire Administration, which in a 2003 study found firefighters accused of arson are usually under 25 years old and start fires to test their firefighting skills, or to put out the fires themselves and be viewed as heroes.

The study also found those firefighters joined for excitement, not public service. That doesn't seem to be the case with Thorley.

"For a man who has given more than 30 years of his life to that fire department, it just seems so out of character," said Rich Giuliani, president of the Dutchess County Fire Chief's Council.

Giuliani said the allegations are particularly surprising because, as a former chief, Thorley would have been familiar with the role of being a commander on dangerous fire scenes, "and the weight of being responsible for your members."

The issue of firefighter arson is probably discussed by officers in most firehouses across the county, but it's not a frequent topic in the fire community, said Dave Walsh, chairman of Dutchess Community College's Fire Science programs.

One reason, he said, is while firefighters aren't trying to stifle discussion of the issue, "they're certainly not proud of it."

Walsh, a retired firefighter, said the public shouldn't lose confidence.

"It happens, but it's rare, and it shouldn't reflect on the fire service," he said. "One bad apple shouldn't be indicative of anything else."

Nik Bonopartis can be reached at nbonopar@poughkeepsiejournal.com

[Porsha911gt3 8]

I really don't know anything about this, but I can say that over the years or reading the Poughkeepsie Journal I have noticed that they don't really publish any good that comes out of the public safety community. Good old Poughkeepsie Journal, unless its bad news they don't publish it, or unless the get the right picture to make firefighters look bad (City of Poughkeepsie Fire a few months back), they don't publish it either, but hey no news is good news right. They always seem to leave out the major incidents around the county and how well departments handled them, but when they can bite there teeth into something juicy they will. This is really just from personal experince that I have noticed this, not so much within the fire service mostly because I have been in it for less than 2 years so I can not and will not comment on it from that aspect.

Edited May 10, 2006 by Porsha911gt3

[229909 0]

it dose put a spot light on any department in which this happened,in my department when a prospective member wants to join,the first thing that is done after they filled out a application is a ARSON BACK GROUND CHECK,something to think about for new recruits.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

Such negative news is a slap in the face to the public service community as a whole, not just for us here in Dutchess, while it does happen to take place here. As some have said, no news is good news, and there are times it seems that is all we hear about, it is a shame there is not more of a focus on all the good aspects.

Fire prevention days, public education, CPR training, helping old Mrs. Smith get back into her chair because she can't help herself anymore, it is our job and mission for the public good.

It is a shame that all the negatives are pointed out, and not all the good. In BFIRs, or other national reports, the recorded $$ loss is/has to be reported, but nowhere is there a report of the actual $$ saved due to the efforts. The papers do not report the CPR being done on the way to the hospital, all the effort exerted, just to set Mr. or Mrs. Smith at ease, that all is being done for their husband or wife of 50 years, even though we all know the truth.

I guess what I am trying to say is, this is a black-eye on the whole emergency services field to have things like this floating around, and I hope for the sake of this individual, that department, this county, and the entire public service sector, that it is not true and the whole situation is resolved.

[x129K 1,393]

a application is a ARSON BACK GROUND CHECK

Great idea and standard practice nowadays, but this Past Chief has 31 YEARS in.

[27east 19]

could this have anything to do with the low turn out for the career exam?

[x129K 1,393]

could this have anything to do with the low turn out for the career exam?

I seriously doubt it.

Milan is an all vollie company, and something tells me this guy didnt send in his app for the test anyways.....

[BFD2553 75]

I really don't know anything about this, but I can say that

over the years or reading the Poughkeepsie Journal I have noticed that they don't really publish any good that comes out of the public safety community.

Good old Poughkeepsie Journal, unless its bad news they don't publish it,

or unless the get the right picture to make firefighters look bad (City of Poughkeepsie Fire a few months back), they don't publish it either, but hey no news is good news right. They always seem to leave out the major incidents around the county and how well departments handled them, but when they can bite there teeth into something juicy they will. This is really just from personal experince that I have noticed this, not so much within the fire service mostly because I have been in it for less than 2 years so I can not and will not comment on it from that aspect.

←

So are you saying that because it's "bad news" they shouldn't publish it either? Kind of hypocritical, isn't that?

[Porsha911gt3 8]

So are you saying that because it's "bad news" they shouldn't publish it either? Kind of hypocritical, isn't that?

←

First of all, that is REALLY ANOYING, and I am not saying that because it is bad news it should not be published, I am saying that the Poughkeepsie Journal very rarely publishes the good news that comes out of the public safety community. If its bad news fine they can publish it fine, but where is the good news when it happens, O yea thats right good news doesn't sell. Once again this is not just steming from this article it has happend over the years.

[xfirefighter484x 234]

So are you saying that because it's "bad news" they shouldn't publish it either? Kind of hypocritical, isn't that?

←

The public DOES have a right to know what is going on in their community, but do you like only hearing bad news? I agree with you wholeheartedly, BFD2553, but I also have to say, that I wish there was more positive news being published out there.

As Porsha911GT3 has said:

but where is the good news when it happens, O yea thats right good news doesn't sell.

we see that the "good stuff" rarely ever makes it out.

[Guest]

This is not the first black eye for Dutchess county....

How quick do we all forget the crack head dealer from Chelsea Fire Dept.

That was another good one

[xfirefighter484x 234]

This is not the first black eye for Dutchess county....

How quick do we all forget the crack head dealer from Chelsea Fire Dept. 

That was another good one 

←

While I agree with you dodffdog, that is one thing. An arsonist firefighter, only due to the fact of his position, I feel is worse.

Ok, a crack dealing chief, yea, that is not good, it is pretty bad, definitely.

Someone who is in a position to save lives, and put OUT fires, now accused of going and setting them? I think that is extremely hypocritical!!

[res6cue 67]

As the member of a dept that had one of our 10+ year members convicted of several counts of arson in our own district, I can tell you it's an absolutely sickening, embarrasing and angering thing to have happen. I won't go into much detail, but I will say that we had suspected this guy for years. Unfortunately, we never had the proof to nail him until he tripped himself up by going on a spree of sorts (had a new girlfriend, trying to impress her I suppose). Now, before anyone asks or accuses us of not doing anything even though we suspected him, I'll remind you that you can't just blindly accuse someone of something that serious without solid evidence. This guy was a cop upstate also. Real piece of sh!t.

[LCFD994 8]

Well if they have the proof to arrest this person or any person that committs a crime then they are innocent until proven guilty by the courts. By all means the department should suspend the member until it is thouroughly investigated, and if the charges are proved true, then fry his a**.

I dont know the whole story with this recent incident, but if he did this then he will pay.

Now I know it can be embarrising to an individual department, but just remember that there are thousands of volunteer and career members and these cases are in the minority. I mean there is more good that we do then bad. But I do agree it does seem " the press" loves to print or continue to print for days the bad.

Any department will get over this type of incident weather its a volly fd, career fd, pd, or ems agency

I also believe it is a NYS law that any new fd recruit has to go through at least an Arson background check, but I could be wrong

Edited May 12, 2006 by Nicholas994

[res6cue 67]

I also believe it is a NYS law that any new fd recruit has to go through at least an Arson background check, but I could be wrong

Correct, a background check for arson convictions is mandatory for volunteer firefighter applicants per NYS Executive Law Section 837-o. I believe it went into effect April 1, 2000. Unfortunately, it seems most of these firebugs get their start after already joining, or they just never got caught previously and wish to join to get a better high that I guess comes with being on both sides of the equation.

[ex-commish 490]

Correct, a background check for arson convictions is mandatory for volunteer firefighter applicants per NYS Executive Law Section 837-o. I believe it went into effect April 1, 2000. Unfortunately, it seems most of these firebugs get their start after already joining, or they just never got caught previously and wish to join to get a better high that I guess comes with being on both sides of the equation.  :angry:

←

You are correct it is a law. I also believe it should not be limited to arson.

[Guest]

Im curious to see what the career guys in Dutchess think....and, the PoJo is always going to be the PoJo, nothing anyone can do about it....i just take everything with a grain of salt

[res6cue 67]

You are correct it is a law. I also believe it should not be limited to arson.

I totally agree and wish they would make it a mandatory full criminal background check, with automatic exclusions for convicted felons. Misdemeanors should be judgement calls though, as you can get arrested and convicted of something really knuckleheaded as a youth and still be an outstanding person.

[Remember585 815]

I was talking about this with someone the other day. This individual said to me "at least it was only brush fires." WHAT?! Are you kidding? I always make statements like the ones below to people.

What kills firefighters?

Heart attacks. Firefighters are dying of heart attacks caused from stress on the heart, generally related to poor health and/or increased adrenaline levels. What if one of your brothers has a fatal heart attack at the scene of one of these dumb little brush fires you light? I bet it would be worth it, right? Give me a break.

Apparatus accidents. We all know that vehicle accidents with apparatus is another leading cause of fatalities in the fire service. How would you feel if you light a little brush fire and one of your pals is driving the rig when, God forbid, someone slams into them and kills someone? Excitement enough for you? Please!

This guy is lucky that nothing he did caused any injuries or deaths to his colleagues.

@$$hole!