Flagpeople: What Authority Do They Have?

[x635 4,066]

Recently, my local roadways in my neighborhood have been invaded by a private contractor who is stringing fiberoptic cable for Verizon's new FiOs network. Their trucks take up one lane of the roadway in multiple spots, making the need for two flagpeople to control traffic.

Sometimes, these flagpeople are at controlled intersections. Recently, while driving, we were waved through a red light by one of these flagpeople while at a three way intersection.

My question is, what authority do these private contractor flagpeople have in controlling traffic, and can they legally wave you through a red light?

[Monty 35]

From NY V&T Title 7, Article 23

§ 1102. Obedience  to police officers and flagpersons. No person shall

  fail or refuse to comply with any  lawful  order  or  direction  of  any

  police  officer or flagperson or other person duly empowered to regulate

  traffic.

Now, of course you need a lawyer to understand what the heck this means! What's a lawful order anyway?

[TRUCK6018 50]

.... what authority do these private contractor flagpeople have in controlling traffic, and can they legally wave you through a red light?

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They have every right to "overide" a traffic controled device such as a traffic light. In a sence it's similar to fire police (minus the peace officer status). They are there to provide a safe zone for the workers.

[Firefighter57 0]

Kind of sounds like that old saying if a fire truck, a cop car, a bus and, a mail van pull up to an X, who has the right of way.....I always like to joke that the mail van gets the right of way but the fire truck will run the mail van over.......anyways...my guess is you'd listen to the flag guy...Drivers ed always told us to listen to the authority that is most aware of the situation

[TRUCK6018 50]

.... fire truck, a cop car, a bus and, a mail van pull up to an X, who has the right of way.....

←

Wouldn't the mail van? Chances are, the fire truck, cop and bus belong to local jurisdictions. The mail van is owned and operated by a federal agency.

[20y2 43]

Wouldn't the mail van?  Chances are, the fire truck, cop and bus belong to local jurisdictions.  The mail van is owned and operated by a federal agency.

←

A federal vehicle has absolutely no authority over any, ANY vehicle. A mail truck is NOT an emergency vehicle and as such has no way of usurping the emergent right of way. As for who would go next? I'm a big fan of the size rule. If you have the ability to run me over, you get to go next.

[calhobs 110]

A federal vehicle has absolutely no authority over any, ANY vehicle. A mail truck is NOT an emergency vehicle and as such has no way of usurping the emergent right of way. As for who would go next? I'm a big fan of the size rule. If you have the ability to run me over, you get to go next.

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That is not true a Mail Truck has the right of way at all times.

[Guest]

This is correct, slowing or stopping mail persons and mail trucks is a federal offense. The law stems from WW2 and hasnt been changed.

[DMA327 12]

Unfortuntely Alpha is right and the person delivering mail has the right of way over anybody, including emergency vehicles i.e. fire trucks and police officials. Ain't that funny!

[Box361 2]

This is correct, slowing or stopping mail persons and mail trucks is a federal offense. The law stems from WW2 and hasnt been changed.

←

A USPS Mail delivery vehicle is the only vehicle allowed to pass a stopped school bus with its red lights on.

[210 91]

Don't know any mail carriers that wouldnt heed the right of way to an emergency vehicle or stop for a school bus. Just some antiquated law. Theres alot of strange old laws on the books that would blow the common sense rule out the window these days.

[res6cue 67]

I can't believe some of you still buy into that old "The USPS has the right of way" myth/urban legend. Show me where it states that in any state V&T laws, or where any federal statute overrides the state.

In the meanwhile, read this: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/fourway.asp

[TRUCK6018 50]

Wouldn't the mail van?  Chances are, the fire truck, cop and bus belong to local jurisdictions.  The mail van is owned and operated by a federal agency.

←

I was being sarcastic.

A stopped school bus with flashing red lights does stop all traffic, emergency vehicles included.

Edited May 1, 2006 by TRUCK6018

[Porsha911gt3 8]

I can't believe some of you still buy into that old "The USPS has the right of way" myth/urban legend. Show me where it states that in any state V&T laws, or where any federal statute overrides the state.

In the meanwhile, read this: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/fourway.asp

←

Check the Constitution I think (know) it says there that the federal government out ranks the state or local governments then again the goverment does tend ignore constitution these days **cough cough** Patriot Act. But besides that yes it is an old blue law that really doesn't hold much anymore

Edited May 1, 2006 by Porsha911gt3

[csf248 0]

Nothing Can Stop The Mail!

LOL

[Firefighter57 0]

Check the Constitution I think (know) it says there that the federal government out ranks the state or local governments    then again the goverment does tend ignore constitution these days **cough cough** Patriot Act. But besides that yes it is an old blue law that really doesn't hold much anymore

←

but like i said....if mr mail man gets in the way of the FD, he better be wearing his seat belt because hes gonna get run the heck over! ...and the patriot act is not ignoring the constitution but that if for a different topic

Edited May 2, 2006 by Firefighter57

[pfd950 1]

Better let the mail guy go, wouldn't want em going postal on ya!!!!

[ny10570 745]

Check the Constitution I think (know) it says there that the federal government out ranks the state or local governments    then again the goverment does tend ignore constitution these days **cough cough** Patriot Act. But besides that yes it is an old blue law that really doesn't hold much anymore

←

Yeah, federal law supercedes state or local law, but there is no federal law that states a mail truck has right of way. By this reasonig state police should have right of way over County, who then blows by the local PD who is still sitting there waiting for the mail man to finish his route. local PD?? This whole thing is riddiculous.

[210 91]

I guess I would proceed with caution after being waved through a red light by a flag person. Sometimes it appears they are not to sure whats going on themselves.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Wouldn't the mail van?  Chances are, the fire truck, cop and bus belong to local jurisdictions.  The mail van is owned and operated by a federal agency.

←

The mail must get through!! They are still a priority above the military (in peace time) I think also.

Flaggers are directing traffic and a person dirrecting traffic to maintain the flow at a construction or accident do become the traffic controller for that area over a mechanical device. I think it allso depends on local and / or state law also. The exception is Fire Police who have the peasce officer status.

Edited May 2, 2006 by IzzyEng4

[SRS131EMTFF 471]

What qualifies someone to be a flag person.. It seems like it is the guy that draws the short straw that day is the flag person. Who knows if these guys even know if how to manage a correct traffic pattern. Life-saving operations should come before the mail. It is too obvious.

[EJS1810 7]

Finally, back on topic!

[Guest]

Actually 66Alpha1, the mail rule does not go back to WW@ - it goes back to the 1800's and the steel/railroad strikes - strikerbreakers broke up the strikes caliming that it was hindering the mail.

[shac 7313 0]

I can't believe some of you still buy into that old "The USPS has the right of way" myth/urban legend. Show me where it states that in any state V&T laws, or where any federal statute overrides the state.

In the meanwhile, read this: http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/fourway.asp

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from shac 7313 dude its on the nys driving test.

[res6cue 67]

from shac 7313 dude its on the nys driving test.

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No, it's really not. Nowhere in the NYS Driver's Manual does it refer to yielding the right of way to postal vehicles, nor is there any such statute in the NYS V&T law (or ANY NYS laws for that matter). Unless someone can find otherwise and post proof? If not, then as I said, it's a longstanding myth/urban legend and obviously people will continue to insist it's true, even in the face of facts to the contrary.

http://nysdmv.com/dmanual/chapter05-manual.htm

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf...OMMONQUERY=LAWS

BUT, since you brought up the NYS Driving Test, here is an excerpt from the NYS Driver's Manual which definitively answers the original question:

Directions given by traffic officers take precedence over signs, signals or pavement markings. If a traffic officer signals you to stop at a green light, for example, you must stop. If an officer signals you to drive through a red light or stop sign, you must do so.

Among those authorized to direct traffic are police officers, peace officers such as on-duty auxiliary or fire police, highway work area flag persons, and school crossing guards.

[Guest]

Directions given by traffic officers take precedence over signs, signals or pavement markings. If a traffic officer signals you to stop at a green light, for example, you must stop. If an officer signals you to drive through a red light or stop sign, you must do so.

Among those authorized to direct traffic are police officers, peace officers such as on-duty auxiliary or fire police, highway work area flag persons, and school crossing guards.

←

Yeah, I took that test last June when I wanted to get my permit and that was one of the questions. It's also something we've gone over in Driver's Ed at school.

The question was something like: "You come to a controlled intersection. Traffic is being directed by a police officer, you light is green, but he is telling you to stop. What do you do?" With answers like: Go because you have the green light, stop because the officer is telling you to, slow down proceed with caution, etc.

Something along those lines...

Anyway the answer was do what the officer says.

Edited May 3, 2006 by KFD Kid26

[sbvfd596 2]

about two years ago we had the same issue in greenwich, and it resulted in all private contractors who were doing work along the roadways in town to hire off duty cops

[CAM502 6]

I say run the flagger over, then find your local mailman and ask him if you are in any trouble.

[calhobs 110]

No, it's really not. Nowhere in the NYS Driver's Manual does it refer to yielding the right of way to postal vehicles, nor is there any such statute in the NYS V&T law (or ANY NYS laws for that matter). Unless someone can find otherwise and post proof? If not, then as I said, it's a longstanding myth/urban legend and obviously people will continue to insist it's true, even in the face of facts to the contrary.

Ask any NYPD Sargeant, its on the promotional exam.

[res6cue 67]

Ask any NYPD Sargeant, its on the promotional exam.

Why would I ask an NYPD Sergeant? Are NYPD Sergeants privy to special knowledge the rest of us aren't? Once again, people continue to argue that this myth is true, but have provided zero proof. On the other hand, I have linked to both the NYS V&T laws as well as the NYS Driver's Manual, neither of which support any claim that a USPS vehicle has any right of way above and beyond the normal rules of the road, and certainly not above and beyond that of an authorized emergency vehicle engaged in an emergency response.

This is directly from the USPS themselves:

According to our resources for the Employee Relations Labor Manual found at http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/manuals/elm/html/welcome.htm, postal carriers are required to follow the traffic safety laws like any other driver according to the city or state government that provided those laws.

So again, find me any federal, state, county, city, town or village law that supports the argument that USPS vehicles have any priority right of way to support the myth many of you insist on propagating. Until someone can, all you're doing is repeating over and over again something that may have been true decades ago, but is no longer.