Kentland FD: Heroes Or Villians?

[348 4]

anyone read this article or have been following the situation in maryland? just wondering what peoples thoughts on the subject are.

http://www.nfrmag.com/March-April%2006/Kentland.asp

[x635 4,066]

I just finished reading that article in National Fire-Rescue Magazine. The article is about Kentland FD, and the authors ride-along visit with them.

I enjoyed the article. It's very interesting, to say the least.

Edited April 25, 2006 by x635

[hfdr19 0]

I had the pleasure of riding with these guys twice and I have to say that they are really good guys once you get to know them. I don't think their any different from any other department around. just alot busier

[Jason762 2]

I am all for competition and company pride, but there comes a time when you have to step back and know that safety is our first priority. I enjoy beating other companies into fires, saying my company is better than yours, etc, but fist fights at fires???, sabotaging other FF's equipment??? What are these guys thinking? Those types of actions are completely unprofeesional and uncalled for. Now I know these are all just allegations and no one can prove it did or did not happen, but we all know what takes place in the firehouse, and how little things can spiral out of control at times. Someone needs to get control of the bad apples down there and tone down the over aggressive nature that has become the way of life before someone gets seriously hurt or killed. I blame the leadership of the dept. for not getting a handle on this earlier. Whether they didn't know what was going on (which I doubt) or were even encouraging these attitudes, they should be held accountable. You are supposed to lead by example and obviously they were not.

[Guest]

lets remember due regard when it comes to EVOC and its always great to beat the 1st due in but this is what happens when its taken to far....

Edited April 25, 2006 by Engine Co

[Guest]

....

[x152 179]

Engine Co. thanks for finding the photo in the archives, I have added 2 other photos from Prince Georges County Fire Departments. Although, we are looking at Kentland in this thread, the photos (and recent news articles) show a disturbing trend (or problems) within the Departments in Prince George's County.

One could easily challenge me and state that accidents can occur anywhere and that perhaps their call volume is greater and thus the possibility of an accident is greater (perhaps?). However, the discussion and the associated article is about "aggressiveness". The examples depicted here are accidents (easily preventable) that have one thing in common: excessive speed. Why?

Are we placing everyone at risk just to be first-in or to "beat the paid guys" (as the case most often in PGFD)? Are we letting our egos come before public safety?

A thread-writer before me blamed this on poor leadership, I could not agree more. If the leadership here believes that it is acceptable to promote this type of "cowboy" mentality, then one can expect a continued tradition of placing personal agendas/rivalries ahead of the public safety.

Edited April 25, 2006 by x152

[LT. 22 1]

From what I have seen and read about Kentland, I think their a great Dep. They run a crazy amount of calls and all of them are Vols. There website shows they run alot of jobs and I know when I driving to a job, I drive just alittle more aggressive. (Im sure Im not the only one)

So the percentage is much greater for them to be involved in an accident. Not saying you have to be going to a job to be involved in a accident, ecause anytime the rig is on the road something can happen. I know fire truck accidents are a problem across the country not just in PGC.

As for the allegations against some of there members fighting and turning off air bottles at fires and ripping off facepeices inside fires, I find some of that hard to believe. I saw the video of the Kentland Saergent pushing and screaming at another Dep. member at a fire and that was wrong. Kentlands leadership handled the problem right away and the Saergent was let go from the Department. However I find it hard to believe that anyone can turn off an SCBA bottle on someones back(in a fire). Also I cant see a fellow firefighter ripping off anothers facepiece in a fire. Again this is just my opinion, I was not there!!

Just a sidenote, from what I hear the PGC leadership does not recognize Kentland33 very much for all the money saved or time given up to serve the people of PGC. Maybe this is the source of alot of the problems.(on both sides)

[Guest]

Anyone ever see "Gangs of New York"? I don't think there is any excuse for Kentland FD's alleged behavior at a few recent calls. Besides being in the spotlight in a few service journals they have also been the butt of many jokes aimed at the fire service. The bottom line is fist fights at fires and sabotaging equipment is giving everyone else a bad name. Now I've also heard lots of wonderful things about KFD and would love to watch them operate but IF these stories are valid their chief and district personnel should be trying to rectify the problems not make excuses for them. And...on a side note...call volume, the fact they are Vols and brotherhood are terrible reasons to justify their alleged behavior...Give me a Break!

[Jason762 2]

From what I have seen and read about Kentland, I think their a great Dep.

Most Dept.'s I consider "great" dept.'s are not accused of sabotaging other FD's gear and equipment. They may be aggressive on the fireground but if you participate in unsafe and unproffesional acts such as those that were named, the term "great dept." goes right out the window.

They run a crazy amount of calls and all of them are Vols. There website shows they run alot of jobs and I know when I driving to a job, I drive just alittle more aggressive. (Im sure Im not the only one)

Who cares how many calls they run. Thats no excuse for acting like a-holes, in fact it is a reason to act MORE safely and profesionally. Also I hope its not my family that gets in your way when you're responding to "the big one" since you said you drive more aggresively to calls. Be careful, the first injury you cause because of your aggressive driving may be the last time you act that way.

As for the allegations against some of there members fighting and turning off air bottles at fires and ripping off facepeices inside fires, I find some of that hard to believe. I saw the video of the Kentland Saergent pushing and screaming at another Dep. member at a fire and that was wrong. Kentlands leadership handled the problem right away and the Saergent was let go from the Department.  However I find it hard to believe that anyone can turn off an SCBA bottle on someones back(in a fire).  Also I cant see a fellow firefighter ripping off anothers facepiece in a fire. Again this is just my opinion, I was not there!!    

Well I guess everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but when emotions run high and common sense takes a back seat to pride these things can definetely happen. Don't live in a dream world where we all live and work together happily. These things DO happen and will continue to until we change our mentallity.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Jason762

[IzzyEng4 427]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread at first. As I have read the article and several of the postings, many of the things are true. Has there ben instances of facepieces getting ripped off, equipment purposely damaged or bottle turned off in the past, Why yes there has been, even before this particular instance with KFD. If you look at the history of the fire service in many cities, say NYC for example, there were numourus rivalries and sometimes fights broke out. Many organizatiosn hated each othere because of thier religious back ground or social economical status. During the segregation years and civil rights movements, there were actions taken against all african american fire companies or firefighters because of who they were. It didn't matter if the department was a volunteer, carreer of combination department, these actions happened and in some cases still happen.

If leadership turns a blind eye to these, lack of a better term, crimes then the leadership is to blame for these persons creating problems and giving the departments a bad name. It's ok to have a good rivarly as in a joking sence but a line should be drawn when someone goes over the edge and should be repremanded for it. Though I have not gone on a ride along with any of the PGFD companies yet, I know a few people who went to school and served as live ins or did the ride along. They are a good department, just like anyone else. Many of their slogans, just like other departments are take from things said by others and are turned around and used to shrug it off.

Where is the fine line? Simple, it is when egos take over and due reguard is lost. This is where we as firefighters get ourselves in trouble. No one is perfect but people have to take responsibility for thier actions and acusations. What happen in Kentland does happen elsewhere with other firefighters blemishing their department as well. Trouble is here they tend to "flaunt" thier pride a little too much and makes them stand out. Other fire companies & departments do the same through out the US. I don't have to name them. But someone has to step up, take action like the chiefs of Kentland and PGFD did.

Can an air bottle be turned off? Depending on the make and how old, yes it can, purposely and accidently though newer bottles are harded to turn the valve because of the mechanisim to prevent a knob to turn if the bottel comes in contact with an object (NFPA requirement now). Facemasks getting ripped off, grounds for dismissal, period.

The point is wre are our own worst enemy and how we present ourselves determines how we are perceived by others and the public. Every department has gone through thier "black eye" moment and no on can deny it, though the extents may be different. Think about it and ask around, you'll be supprised.

Edited April 25, 2006 by IzzyEng4

[LT. 22 1]

(Who cares how many calls they run. Thats no excuse for acting like a-holes, in fact it is a reason to act MORE safely and profesionally. Also I hope its not my family that gets in your way when you're responding to "the big one" since you said you drive more aggresively to calls. Be careful, the first injury you cause because of your aggressive driving may be the last time you act that way.)

First of all I dont drive recklessly to calls. All I said is I drive alittle more aggresively to structure fires!! Say compared to a AFA.

Edited April 25, 2006 by LT. 22

[CPAGE 2]

Ok I'm out of the one I dont want my mask pulled off. LOL

[27east 19]

(Who cares how many calls they run.  Thats no excuse for acting like a-holes, in fact it is a reason to act MORE safely and profesionally.  Also I hope its not my family that gets in your way when you're responding to "the big one" since you said you drive more aggresively to calls.  Be careful, the first injury you cause because of your aggressive driving may be the last time you act that way.)

  First of all I dont drive recklessly to calls. All I said is I drive alittle more aggresively to structure fires!! Say compared to a AFA.

←

gotta treat everything the same until otherwise advised...how many structure fires come as a result of AFAs?!!!!

[Guest]

Two Words. Screw Kentland! When Egos get invoved, Common Sense and Safety take a back seat.

[Jason762 2]

I wasn't going to post again because I'm not looking to get into a tit for tat argument but when the report of a fire comes in and the adrenaline starts rushing, and the tunnel vision starts setting in, and all you want to do is get to that fire, THAT is the time when you need to stop, take a deep breath, and relax. It is not the time to put the pedal to the metal and start driving more aggressively. This is the reason and the mentality that is the leading cause of why so many firefighters are killed every year in MVA's involving fire apparatus and vol's responding in their personal vehicles. Most of us are not police officers who have training in operating vehicles at high speeds. Slow down and take your time, the fire will still be there when you arrive.

[348 4]

how much money is kentland saving the taxpayers when they roll over 750K tower ladders? or 500K engines? or put guys in a burn unit? to the statement earlier that the kentland leadership dealt with the officer seen in the altercation is false, the county chief was the final disciplinarian. this thread was to debate the line of "professionalism" and "pride". whether paid or volunteer, we all have pride in our organization and a sense of professionalism in our actions. fighting on the fireground and racing to calls in 50,000 lbs trucks is not professional and someone should not take pride in. if kentland really felt a sense of honor and true volunteerism, they should take a bus trip to lake purdys this week.

[HFD23 37]

Most of us are not police officers who have training in operating vehicles at high speeds.  Slow down and take your time, the fire will still be there when you arrive.

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it has the nothing to do with being police officers, no police officer is going to drive a fire engine at high speeds and be ok... Fire engines are big and very heavy they have a lot of water that often moves around and bottom line is they like to roll and most of all they take a lot of room to stop and the faster your going the more space it will be necessary to stop a rig.... also keep in mind most of us need better driver training how many departments actually let you go out and drive a rig and slam on the breaks to see how long it takes to stop.... how many of you know the breaking differences between ABS and Non ABS equipped apparatus? these are all important factors....

[Jason762 2]

it has the nothing to do with being police officers, no police officer is going to drive a fire engine at high speeds and be ok... Fire engines are big and very heavy they have a lot of water that often moves around and bottom line is they like to roll and most of all they take a lot of room to stop and the faster your going the more space it will be necessary to stop a rig.... also keep in mind most of us need better driver training how many departments actually let you go out and drive a rig and slam on the breaks to see how long it takes to stop.... how many of you know the breaking differences between ABS and Non ABS equipped apparatus? these are all important factors....

←

I agree with you 100%. Maybe I wasn't getting my point across clearly. The PD reference was meant for vols. who drive their personal vehicles at high speeds, not apparatus operators.

The whole point of my posts being, if you agree with the tactics these people in MD are doing you should re-evaluate your belonging in the fire service. They are unsafe and unprofesional and should be called out for the irresponsible idiots that they are.

[Guest]

Excellent point Member 348 - If they're such a tight-knit clan and they pride themselves on their brotherhood they should be reaching out to fellow depts and brothers instead of fighting them or turning off SCBAs. The more I read this thread the more fed up I get with this Kentland group - I hope they attempt to fix their tarnished reputation.

[AS702 0]

Well the apparatus accidents in PG shouldn't be looked at as if theres more, cause if your dept ran the same amount of calls, you too would be prone to more accidents.. No driver is perfect and there will always be accidents.. Its not only driver error sometimes, its the idiots on the road who dont care.. I've seen people have complete disregard for responding units and do what they want and not care.. And those are the ones who complain that it took the fire dept or the ambulance too long to get there..

[Guest]

Well the apparatus accidents in PG shouldn't be looked at as if theres more, cause if your dept ran the same amount of calls, you too would be prone to more accidents.. No driver is perfect and there will always be accidents.. Its not only driver error sometimes, its the idiots on the road who dont care.. I've  seen people have complete disregard for responding units and do what they want and not care.. And those are the ones who complain that it took the fire dept or the ambulance too long to get there..

←

I think the reason so many people feel so strongly about this story is not that they JUST rolled over a rig. Rather, this company has been in the spotlight for several reasons - fighting, sabotaging eachother AND rolling over apparatus. People, especially in our profession are beginning to connect the dots - The Kentland crew operates irresponsibly and they need to know that many of us in the service are fed up with it! Especially since it is giving many other departments a bad name. It has NOTHING to do with the number of calls - There are plenty of departments (with more calls) who do not have this kind of press and they work hard to keep it that way - So should Kentland.

[x152 179]

Well the apparatus accidents in PG shouldn't be looked at as if theres more, cause if your dept ran the same amount of calls, you too would be prone to more accidents.. No driver is perfect and there will always be accidents.. Its not only driver error sometimes, its the idiots on the road who dont care.. I've  seen people have complete disregard for responding units and do what they want and not care.. And those are the ones who complain that it took the fire dept or the ambulance too long to get there..

←

AS - I think we already addressed the number of runs vs. likelihood discussion earlier in the thread. The higher number of calls does increase the exposure to the public, but it in NO way should ever be used to justify the number of speed-related apparatus accidents in the County in question (there are also additional accidents not depicted earlier in this thread).

Yes, there are idiots on the road, that is why we train the apparatus operators to be prepared for the unexpected and lay-off the accelerator. We will have much greater success training our own drivers, than the thousands of motorists we may encounter on any given day (although public awareness is never a bad idea).

As many others have indicated in this tread, the overall attitude of this group is the root problem. The accidents and altercations are secondary.

[mllax14 18]

I have never met or ridden with the members of Kentland 33 and therefore I cannot criticize them. I don’t understand how we can say that they are disgraceful if we really know nothing about them except from what we read in articles. After I read the article and have talked to a few friends who have had the privilege to ride with them, that they are truly dedicated VOLUNTEERS who are passionate about their jobs and who want to keep their tradition alive. These guys live at a firehouse for no pay at all, isn’t that was being a volunteer is about, dedication and pride. They don’t go home to their families and friends and then respond from home to the alarm, they stay at the firehouse 24 hours a day 7 days a week to make sure that their community is well protected. Why is it different that they can get blasted for getting to the scene first, but it is in fact similar to many of us when some get a fire they fly to the scene with blue lights everywhere trying to get to the scene to be the first one in, but that is ok and safer “right”, I don’t agree their system works and I wish my department adopted it that they cannot respond to the scene in personal vehicles they are either on the truck or their not there and they sign on with their staffing numbers knowing that they have a full crew and getting their first and being able to complete the required task as compared to flying to the scene to hurry up and wait for the rigs to get there are two completely different things so why are they criticized for that. To be honest with you I think that many are jealous of them, myself included. Because of the amount of calls, fires, skill, and experience that they have they are flat out good at what they do .It is because some don’t go to as many fires or don’t get there first that they feel that they have to bad mouth them. If you were offered the opportunity to be a member of that station and be apart of that family, not to go on the amount of calls or fires, but to be part of the tradition of the Kentland name, would you do it? Would you give them a chance to show you their true colors, other than what the media says about them. To let them show you why they are they way they are? As for the incident with the arguments and burns. I can’t believe what is in the media because I was not there I will say that it is inexcusable if it was truly done, if anybody noticed that the firefighters accused of those actions had their charges dropped against them, when it comes down to it if you where in a fire with members of Kentland and you where in need of help or vise versa would you think that they would help you or would you help them? I know they would help me and I would without a doubt help them, because they are firefighters and that is all that matters in my eyes. This is only my opinion.