FDMV and MA

[gss131 212]

I can recall going to a couple of rallys for MV a while back.At one there was a response to an alarm nearby,along comes the truck complete with only an officer and a driver.Thats when i realized how bad it was. And you are right ,maybe now is the time for some action.spread the word and we'll be there to support you.

Edited April 27, 2006 by gss131

[ajsbear 11]

OK, I've been quiet for a long time reading this. I've now got to add my 1 1/2 cents(inflation) First I grew up in Mt Vernon, was a long time member back in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Manpower was always a problem. We had 6 Engines, 3 ladders, a fully staffede resuce and a spare engine and ladder, not new, quite old but servicable. It was a combo department and you always had enough guys at a worker. The volly's were dispanded without a real increase in manpower on the career side. Henry submited a plan. It was by and large ignored. Every chief after did nothing to correct this. The union then screamed (is Frank here) and Mayor Ernie just took things away. I remember he would not let a unit go to NYC at 911, said "send a garbage truck" I beleive. Now Ernie spends the cities money rebuilding the "Circle." Doesn't anyone remember why they removed it? All that new tax money from the new stores on Sanford Blvd. If the people on Mt Vernon really knew what was going on there would be a linch mob in front of city hall. If not it proves they don't care or they are just ignorant. They let the library go until there was a waterfall inside every time it rained.

TALK ABOUT GROSS MISMANAGEMENT!!.

Ernie needs a dose of reality but god forbid if a brother dies because of this. Sooner or later the members on the job in Mt Vernon are going to get in over their heads because of the lack of manpower and help is to far away. How do you keep the city beautiful if its filled with burned out buildings?

What if you just go in and protect lives, make sure the building is clear and do an exterior attack since you don't have the manpower to do a proper interior one. I remember years ago the short Yonkers Strike. The goal was to make sure the structure was clear. They proved the need for a fully staffed department. Don't think Tony was the local pres. then in Yonkers. Something needs to be done. We need to support the guys who are there doing a hell of a good job under tough conditions with not enough manpower, old or inadaquate equiptment and so on. The eacape ladder is an OSHA issue.

If anyone takes offence at my rant, sorry. I hate to see what is happening there and We all need to get together Career, Volunteer etc to help before someone gets hurt. We need to get our point across to ERNIE!

[BIGRED1 71]

ya just tell us when and where and i am sure you will get some people there.

[TimesUp 148]

Chris, Myself and the guys in Mt. vernon appreciate your supporting us with this situation.

[X2321 133]

We all know there are many risks in the firefighting business, but the firefighters in Mt Vernon and its surrounding communities should not have to put up with more risks because politicans don't have their priorities straight. I can't imagine what it was like a couple of weeks ago for the engine and ladder from New Rochelle and Pelham covering Mt Vernon, pulling up to a raging fire knowing the next piece of equipment was coming from Fairview and Greenville during rush hour. When Mt Vernon empties all its firehouse for a room and contents fire it covers the rest of the city with just 1 & 1. Thats not fair to the mutual aid comapnies and to the citizens of Mt Vernon. It seems like the politicans are more concerned with their image than public safety. I happen to know some people at the Journal News and will try and rattle them up to do another story about the situation in Mt. Vernon, but it seems like there are stories often but nothing is done. I think whoever had the idea about the noontime rally on the steps of city hall was on the money. If done correctly and well publicized it will be very effective.

[Guest]

I have been doing plenty of reading on this subject. I keep hearing the FD this the FD that. One ambulance for the whole city... I just want to say the members of FDMV do the best job they can with what they have. Just like the rest of us. I have met a lot of good people there and they seem to be into the job. Stopping or curtailing MA to FDMV, in my opinion is not the answer. The safety of our union brothers and the people they protect should be at the fore front of our concerns. And I am sure all agree.

I just can't believe the people of MT Vernon would allow this situation to occur thus endangering their lives. The whole situation starts at the top--The major. The major and the city give the resourses to the FD and the FD have work with what they are given. And what I have been hearing it is not just the FD. The people should exercise the democratic right (VOTE)and put people in postion to protect and serve them.

As the FD, PD, and EMS do day in and day out.

Be safe.

[FirNaTine 370]

I just got back from vacation and let me say it was a pleasure to find this issue finally being spoken about again on EMT Bravo. I know many may think it's just an old horse being beaten again, but for those who work for FDMV, me being one of them for the past 20yrs., it's an ever lasting problem for us, that will continue as long as Depts. respond in on M/A. They are all being used time and time again by our City Officials and that's not one's opinion, that's the fact. The staffing and equipment problems have been brought to the Mayor's attention, and you know what his answer was, "That's O.K. just call Mutual Aid." I, as well as the majority of FDMV members are fed up with it and probably the only solution to correct it may be Chris McCann's idea, and that is to respond in on M/A, but start charging the City of MT.Vernon for your services. Or, tell members of your Dept. to stop running back to cover apparatus that's been sent to the Vern on M/A. Your not helping us by doing so, and your surely not helping your own taxpayers. The only Dept. who seems to practice this on occasion is Pelham, but unforunately, it's only when certain members are off. Anyway, I'd like to thank Chris for stepping up to the plate once again, and showing his support for his fellow union members in the Vern. Maybe the so called surrounding Proffesional FF.s will join his and Yonkers lead and do the same, instead of jumping on their big red trucks to respond to the Vern to play and get dirty. I don't mean to offend anybody, but when you get down to it, it's the truth, even if it hurts. Stay Safe Brothers!

[Guest]

Thanks Capt 51 for your support of us here in Mt Vernon. But I think what Myself and the other M.V. members are trying to explain to our neigboring departments is that This city's constant relying on Mutual aid is hurting us and endangering the public.

When the decision is made at the start of a shift to not fiil positions and put rigs out of sevice then the members working and the citizens are in danger from that second on. This decision is made with the misguided opinion that mutual aid will supplement our response.

The first arriving units will be under manned and in danger. The delayed response of mutual aid only offers a false sense of security.

So what we really need is to start our shifts fully manned and with working equipment. We need to be ready before the alarm comes in, not 15 minutes after.

Also when Mt. Vernon calls for mutual aid and other depts. take units out of there districts to cover us then whose covering their districts or first due area's. Then there is somebody somewhere that is losing coverage. All because Mt. Vernon does'nt want to staff their shift or invest enough money into equipment to have Rigs in service.

Thanks Chris for your strong showing of support of the Firefighters of Mt. Vernon!

[mfc2257 464]

Want to get the Mayor's attention.... It's silly but would sure as hell work...

Get a rig from each of the M/A departments as well as any other (vollie or not) that are willing to support the FDMV. Fill the street in front of the Mayor's house with rigs at 6am on a Saturday. Have each rig lean on the Federal "Q" and air horn until the air tanks are empty. When all the neighbors come out to see why there are 30 fire trucks from outside MV making that kind of noise explain to them.

Repeat at city hall on Monday. The news will show up to cover the disturbance. The news will cover a big noise complaint, but not the fact that the firefighters of FDMV, and their mutual aid companies are put in grave danger every time an alarm box is struck.

If waking the Mayor out of bed is the only way to get noticed then do it.

Make signs to hang outside of each fire station that say "THERE ARE ONLY 2 FIREFIGHTERS WORKING HERE TODAY" OR "THE FIRE TRUCK THAT PROTECTS THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN O/O/S FOR 8 MONTHS"

[Guest]

Pelham's Professional Firefighters will once again step up to the plate.  We spoke to our Village Administrator this morning explaining the situation in Mt Vernon.  He would be on board with a plan involving a system of monetary retribution for mutual aid calls, where mutual aid units are utilized to cover firehouses as opposed to Mt Vernon calling in it's own members to do so.  I know what you’re going to say.  Mt Vernon has no spare equipment.  Not really our problem, get some is what the city should be told, or pay $500 an hour for ours.

That's an easy solution for your department considering you don't have any officers let alone career chief officers. They are the ones who dictate policy. If my company is toned out for mutual aid to Anywhere, USA, we have to respond. You try telling your chief or deputy "nope, can't do it chief". Let's see how fast you're up on charges. As far as the spare equipment goes, if the money is not there, they can't print it up. If the city officials would stop wasting it on other crap instead of the safety of all, they wouldn't be in this situation.

My question is this??? Which of the surrounding Locals are ready to do the same...Half the guys on our jobs are ready to run each other over to rush into Mt Vernon for a chance to get their gear dirty.  We argue with management as to how many firefighters we need to ensure an adequate initial attack, but we're willing to reduce that number to go sit in a firehouse in Mt Vernon.  Why?  We all know the answer.  To get a chance to get called to the scene and get our rocks off.  Being a Union Firefighter is a lot more than just putting a sticker on your car window and marching on St. Paddy's Day.  It's a shame more of our guys don't know this.

It's pretty sad that you would think half the guys want to go to MV just to "get their gear dirty or get their rocks off". Maybe that's how it is where you are but I can assure you that's not the case elsewhere. As a union member, my interests would be to ensure the safety of all my brothers, north south east and west of me. They, as a union, are up against a stone wall. They can talk until they are blue in the face and city officials turn a deaf ear. Maybe if all responding departments did it professionally and in a systematic way such as sending a normal complement of 3 firefighters and 1 officer, instead of having off duty members "meet up" at the firehouse in MV in civilian clothes  to catch an hour of OT, there wouldn't be such turmoil, if you catch my drift.

Instead of departments lobbying to get themselves higher on the mutual aid list for the City of Mt Vernon, they should be lobbying to ensure the safety of FDMV's members. 

I represent the smallest Local involved with mutual aid to Mt. Vernon, and we're willing to stand up and fight for our brothers in 107.  Going it alone, as we have in the past, is not going to accomplish anything.  New Rochelle, Eastchester, Greenville, and whoever else is on the list or trying to get on the list, wake up and smell the smoke.  The safety of Mt Vernon firefighters is being jeopardized.  The time for action is now before we loose one of our own.

Once again, they are not trying to "get on the list". If they are called, they go, end of story. Yes, you are right, the safety of MVFD members is being jeapardized and by not responding, will jeapardize the brothers even more. Putting them on a sinking island with no one to help will make matters worse. I have relatives and friends as members of FDMV and I will march and protest alongside of them anywhere, anytime, but I will not sit across a boundary and watch them be injured or killed because of the ignorance of city hall. So tell me......as a union official....should we all just abandon MV for mutual aid, thrust our chests out and say sorry guys, can't respond, you're on your own or do what we have to do first and sort out the BS later. These guys have families that expect them home at the end of the tour also.

[TimesUp 148]

This is crazy! It sounds like " who care's what you want" , "we'll tell you what you want!" or "don't tell me how it is on your job" , "I'll tell you how it is on your job".

I think Chris is trying to offer up some solutions that will make guys on my job safer in the long run.

Its the city relying on mutual aid that puts us in danger in the first place.

[x152 179]

Productive results usually do not start with tactics that begin with blowing air horns in a residential neighborhood at any time of day. We need the public on our side, not pissed off because of a job-action.

There is clearly an ongoing problem with the Mayor's attention to the safety of the fire fighters and the residents that they are sworn to protect. Staffing levels below the minimum set by the NFPA (1710) are not acceptable anytime or anywhere; period (important to remember that 1710 is a minimum with the levels increasing for "high-risk" areas). The density of MV could be least described as dense and worthy of more than a 4 person minimum.

Several authors in this thread chose to attack the IAFF about this (why?/typical). There is no doubt that the Union would have serious concerns about the safety of their members. However, unless you have been at the helm of running a Local, you would have little idea of the challenges to get understanding or involvement of all of those necessary in order to correct a problem like this. Securing minimum staffing language is HUGE task for any local and is usually the last thing that a City will ever willingly negotiate over.

The President, Executive Board, etc. cannot wage this battle alone. They need to have the full involvement of the Local and community.

Public awareness and involvement is the key and it will not happen overnight or with a few "Station Understaffed" signs out front. Far too many Cities in this area [Waterbury (CT), Bridgeport (CT), New Haven (CT), Springfield (MA)] have recently managed to close companies and/or stations and keep the practice ongoing. The Local's in all of these Cities have tried almost every tactic possible to stop this from happening with little of no success.

Unless the public is involved and pissed off (on our side) the concerns of the Union will have a short shelf-life. Public awareness can come in a variety of positive ways and I am sure that the members of FDMV are looking at their options.

Whenever, our Brothers/Sisters in MV are ready, they will have plenty of support from their extended family in the area.

Although not mentioned, I guess it is safe to guess where the Admin. is on the issue?

[Guest]

What I can't understand is, many of you who are responding in on M/A to the Vern say your doing it for the safety of their members and their citizens? How about the safety of your own members left behind with minimal staffing to provide fire protection for your own taxpayers? What about them? Or doesn't your Dept. catch a lot of work, so you'll gamble with their lives, and hope for the best. And I don't want to hear your Dept. has a call back either, because that doesn't cut it. Yes the taxpayers of Mt.Vernon need to know what's going on, but so do the taxpayers of your juristictions. Don't worry about the safety of FDMV's members, if one of them gets seriously injured or God forbid looses their life, nobody is going to blame another municipality for not responding in on M/A. Believe me. It will be between the Dept. and the City. Speaking of getting injured, who is responsible for a M/A member's 207A if he gets injured to the extent he has to retire? Don't be so concerned about the safety of FDMV members, worry about your own, because let's face it, many times M/A is called to the scene, it's a surround and drown operation, where not to many injuries occur fortunately. However, what about M/A companies responding to a subsequent job, where these Depts., not only can't communicate with each other, but have different SOP's. This is where someone is going to pay the price unfortunately, and who's going to be held responsible? Although FDMV members appreciate your concern for their safety, help them by taking another route. It's in theirs and yours best interest.

[mfc2257 464]

Productive results usually do not start with tactics that begin with blowing air horns in a residential neighborhood at any time of day. We need the public on our side, not pissed off because of a job-action.

I didn't mean it to be taken quite that seriouslly....

IN ALL SERIOUSNESS....

I keep hearing a theme that revolves around a difficulty in getting the attention of the citizens that FDMV protects. Approaching each citizen individually would be impossible, but try to get sit down meetings with people who have the attention of large groups of people to help spread the word. Politicians do this all the time to Unions... They use Union brass to try and get the votes of union members. Now use political tactics to get right back at them.

It may take some off the clock work by FF's and the Local Union, but I have a feeling that if you could sit with the leaders of the following organizations that you could convince them of the importance of your cause and thus get them to lobby for you.

NOTE: Throwing the mayor under the bus in an inflammatory way won't get you far. Many of these folks may have voted for him. Simply detail the issue and emphasize the fact that ONLY the mayor has control of fixing it.

Every local faith organization... Church, Mosque, Synagogue, etc.

All local social organizations.... Yonkers MC (actually located in MV) the Knights of Columbus, Rotory, Elks, VFW, Boy Scouts, PTA, School Board, etc.

Local tradesmens association or union... Pipe Fitters, Electricians, Teachers

The boards or executives of MV's largest companies... Businesses, Hospitals, Private Schools, Law Firms.

The Union could come up with a clear and succinct message. Then, generate a list of all the organizations and more listed above. Assign each union member a few organizations off the list and make it their responsibility to get in touch with these folks by phone, letter, etc. to set a short in person meeting to discuss the problems. Invite their leaders down to the fire station and show them exactly how many men are at work, what equipment is out of service and how that effects safety. Then ask them to go to their members/constituants and spread the word.

Edited April 28, 2006 by mfc2257

[lad12derff 283]

This is not as easy as all of you think. get the roof is right, try telling Doc in New Rochelle we are not responding or the Deputy Chief on duty. Do you think we, the men, have a choice. We leave our city understaffed and unprotected to help for a room and contents fire. Do you really think we from New Rochelle get our rocks off by going to the Vern at 2:45 am to stay at station 3 for 3 hours and leave our city unprotected. We are also not responding to the vern to protect the brothers from there. Do you really think we are doing any good responding 20 minutes after the first line is stretched. Who do you think is in more danger, the brothers from Mount Vernon responding to a job with a pathetic 16 men or the mutual aid companies catching a second job and responding with six from New Rochelle and 2 from Pelham. This situation needs to be addressed first by all the union heads of the surrounding locals. We need to get a game plan together. Then we must get our bosses on board with our issues and concerns. We must act in a professional and unified way. We cannot run around blowing sirens in front of Ernies house and lowering ourselves. I know the Brothers from New Rochelle will always support our Brothers from Mount Vernon in any way possible to better their current manning issues.

Edited April 28, 2006 by lad12derff

[Guest]

Ladder 12 -Do what Yonkers did, have New Rochelle moved down on the M/A/ list.

Mobilize your union,get a consensus from the men, and tell your chiefs that you dont't feel safe going into a city with a reckless mayor who has little regard for the safety of ff's. I don't understand why you have not done this already. Regardless,better late than never.

[Guest]

Hats off to Chris McCann for saying what needed to be said.

Once again Pelham is there for support.

While there are alot of good ideas on this post I can tell most are from guys who are not really sure just how MV operates. First of all, the Chief and Comr. are both appointed by the Mayor so make of that what you will. The FD has always been the Red Headed stepchild of the city.(no offense to red heads) The idea of rallies at city hall has been tried multiple times and has only ended with the mayor being even more pissed off at the FD. While you can go to the news and the papers and state facts we are still dealing with a guy who's answer is"this too will pass" or "those guys, they just want more money, they only work 3 days a week"

When you have a mayor, who makes remarks like this, and most of the citizens love, it's pretty hard to get ahead.

As most of you know the FD is a necessary evil. Nobody wants us unless their house is on fire or they are in a jam. It's not as easy as it may seem to get the citizens on board.

I know for a fact that many of the Depts. who respond on MA to MV will not respond until they have extra manpower either on board or on the way in to the fire house to fill those that have left town. This requires overtime when ever they leave town. Does this not bother the unions of the jobs that are sending the MA? Is the leadership saying it's OK to bring guys in for MA but not for the full shift everyday? How do the taxpayers feel about paying for guys to go out of town? Especially when if you call MV for MA and we are down a couple of rigs we simply say sorry can't send it.

L12 has some good ideas as well, hopefully we can get something to work.

GETTHEROOF on the other hand needs to realize that while maybe he or his guys don't "get their rocks off" coming to MV, I have spoken to enough people around the county to know there are plenty of guys waiting to hear the MV tones go off so they can "Take a ride" On a job Like New Rochelle, Yonkers, White Plains where they don't call back guys for MA you do have to follow orders. When you are ordered on MA you have to go. When you are on a job that recalls members for OT you have a choice.

[10-8 0]

Want to get the Mayor's attention.... It's silly but would sure as hell work...

Get a rig from each of the M/A departments as well as any other (vollie or not) that are willing to support the FDMV.  Fill the street in front of the Mayor's house with rigs at 6am on a Saturday.  Have each rig lean on the Federal "Q" and air horn until the air tanks are empty.  When all the neighbors come out to see why there are 30 fire trucks from outside MV making that kind of noise explain to them.

Repeat at city hall on Monday.  The news will show up to cover the disturbance.  The news will cover a big noise complaint, but not the fact that the firefighters of FDMV, and their mutual aid companies are put in grave danger every time an alarm box is struck.

If waking the Mayor out of bed is the only way to get noticed then do it.

Make signs to hang outside of each fire station that say "THERE ARE ONLY 2 FIREFIGHTERS WORKING HERE TODAY"  OR "THE FIRE TRUCK THAT PROTECTS THIS NEIGHBORHOOD HAS BEEN O/O/S FOR 8 MONTHS"

←

Hey fellas: Not to be on the negative side but you are missing something.

Uncle Ernie Don't really care what you do!!!!..Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they close down station 2 back in december of 2002, and hang signs on the door that said this station closed due to manpower, call 911 in case of an emergency??

This made the papers and channel 12 news, and when questioned Uncle Ernie promised to put 10 men on before years end. He didn't hire until march of 2003 and still slipped away with 9 men. He is as sly as they come!!!

Another problem that exists is that the majority of the residents think that Ernie is God's gift to the world and are brainwashed by his tactics. They don't really understand the dangers of the manning issues nor do the majority really even give it a thought or care. They have no respect for the FD and feel that these guys are over paid and do nothing all day! Little do they know how hard these guys bust there humps with the little resources they have...

Suggestion: First You need to start with the Removal of the self centered control freak. He controls both the FD and the PD but doesn't have the slightest clue about either one. All he is concerned with is how every year there is a multi million dollar surplus in his budget. Well hello a**hole if you are under staffed every day and operating with ancient equiptment of course you are gonna have money left over..My question is does anyone even know where this excess money goes???

Until he leaves I feel the issues will never change..

So suggestion 2: Being there are like 200 churches in the Vern, those are the places to spread the word!! If you get all of the church goers to start praying for Ernie to leave maybe God will answer and????

" Farewell Ernie"

[Guest]

GETTHEROOF on the other hand needs to realize that while maybe he or his guys don't "get their rocks off" coming to MV, I have spoken to enough people around the county to know there are plenty of guys waiting to hear the MV tones go off so they can "Take a ride" 

←

SHAME ON THEM.

[Lucifer 6]

A couple of points for members coming into the city on M/A: 1st, if you're relocating to a firehouse and responding with lights and siren, you're in violation of the V&T laws unless the EMERGENCY is at the firehouse. It should probably take 25 minutes in normal traffic flow to relocate from Greenville or Fairview. 2nd, as stated by a wise member above, members on duty don't have a choice, but members OFF DUTY do! Is a picture starting to form???

Edited April 29, 2006 by Lucifer

[Guest]

I find it quite intriguing how some people, claiming they are "concerned" about the job, come here crying about how a lack of manpower can put them in harms way, then suggest a job action which would put them and the public they serve in jeporady. Come on, is that really the appropriate way to handle things?

And hate to break it to ya, but some guys have this job because they need a job, and the money that comes with it. Callback is extra money that guys use to put their kids through school, pay bills, etc. To refuse it and not come in, and think that it's going to suddenly change things, is absurd. I absolutely agree that protecting your own community is first priority, and you are gambling with callbacks. If you guys are so concerned about these communitys, why don't you stop calling them?

There have been PLENTY of oppurtuties for MVFD members to point out in recent fires deficiencies in the system in a number of ways. Have they? Why are they so silent about this issue? And has any member addressed where this financing would come from to get to NFPA 1710 standards? And what about your peers in the PD...they are understaffed to. Is is actually a concern to most communities? We have one of the wealthiest towns in that nation right down 22 from Mount Vernon, and they have bare bones staffing and cheap old apparatus, so is it even a money issue?

I know I wouldn't want to live with myself if someone was injured or killed because of some crazy and irrational job action.

[lad12derff 283]

ZeerR

Who said anything about a job action? Did I miss something here? It is against the law to have a job action. Telling guys not to come in on ot for a MA fire is not a job action. Is your job telling you "you a here by ordered to report for duty"? I don't think so. Can you come in for ot we have a MA call now is more like it. There is only one job in this county who is doing it all right. YFD!!!! 3 men 1 officer on every engine,truck and heavy rescue. All other depts are understaffed. You want MA into your city/town then we should be sending a minimum of 3 engine companies and 2 ladder companies with 3 men and 1 officer under the direction of a battalion chief from westchester county to your city/town. If we catch another job on MA we are covered. Now factor in paying each community for said services and we don't have a problem. You will either pay MA or pay for your own coverage. If we all had the proper manning levels we would not have to bring every piece of equiptment we own to the job. We could handle a 1 or 2 room job with 3 and 2 leaving other companies in the cities to still respond to other calls.

[Guest]

I find it quite intriguing how some people, claiming they are "concerned" about the job, come here crying about how a lack of manpower can put them in harms way, then suggest a job action which would put them and the public they serve in jeporady. Come on, is that really the appropriate way to handle things?

And hate to break it to ya, but some guys have this job because they need a job, and the money that comes with it. Callback is extra money that guys use to put their kids through school, pay bills, etc.  To refuse it and not come in, and think that it's going to suddenly change things, is absurd. I absolutely agree that protecting your own community is first priority, and you are gambling with callbacks. If you guys are so concerned about these communitys, why don't you stop calling them?

There have been PLENTY of oppurtuties for MVFD members to point out in recent fires  deficiencies in the system in a number of ways. Have they?  Why are they so silent about this issue? And has any member addressed where this financing would come from to get to NFPA 1710 standards? And what about your peers in the PD...they are understaffed to.   Is is actually a concern to most  communities? We have one of the wealthiest towns in that nation right down 22 from Mount Vernon, and they have bare bones staffing and cheap old apparatus, so is it even a money issue?   

I know I wouldn't want to live with myself if someone was injured or killed because of some crazy and irrational job action.

←

Great! You Finally decided to make your first post in response to something, But you decided not to read the thread. How else could you ask these question. But you keep coming back for your Blood money, I guess we all know where your coming from....thanks for the heads up, I would'ent think I guy thats doing it for the money is gonna put his neck on the line for me anyway.

Edited April 29, 2006 by Big Al

[Guest]

Well, I'm happy to see my post got the blood pumping...To those of you who read what I had to say and shook your head while mashing your teeth together, my reply is this; GOOD. Mad is exactly what we need in this situation. Now lets do something with it. Let me take myself out of the mix by saying this, I know I'm an a****le, I'm good at it. There it is, self-proclaimed, now lets move past any further replies picking my first post apart.

I'm not suggesting that anybody disobey an order to go mutual aid to MV. I'm suggesting a new approach to the problem. Rallies, protests, and media coverage have had zero effect on the situation. A woman died at an apartment fire on the North side a few years back, and even with a full court press from the union, nothing has changed. Signs and letters aren’t going to do it.

Unions need to sit down with management and municipal administration, and explain the situation from a public safety and dollars and cents standpoint. Tax dollars are budgeted for what is deemed appropriate fire protection for the community in which the taxes are levied. (...I know what you’re thinking, 3 guys is not appropriate fire protection. Believe me I know, I'm working on it.) We should not be willing to deplete our own district's resources under any circumstances. That doesn’t mean we don't respond mutual aid. That means when we do, off duty members are called in to staff spare apparatus.

The expense of calling in members should be billed to the municipality who is requesting MA to cover their firehouses, rather than calling in their own firefighters. If our communities are going to continue to pay for Mount Vernon’s shortcomings, nothing is going to change. Why would anyone pay for something when they can get it for free? Lets review the equation below

Proper Manning, Spare Apparatus, Members on Overtime or MUTUAL AID

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or FREE

There...I hope your all happy. This topic has got me writing out equations for god sake.

This is not any of ours fault, but it is our problem. 107 can't fight this battle alone. They can't even fight it when we stand by them and do what we do best. You know, scream, yell, make noise, piss people off, the usual. It's time for something new. I'm not saying my idea's the right one, but at current it's the only one I have. Time for a pow wow boys.... Executive Board members, I'm working 24 on Tuesday. Call the firehouse and give me your thoughts. No obscene calls please. I get enough of those from my Village Administrator.

This will be my last post. Any further discussions shouldn’t take place on this forum.

Chris McCann

Union President Local 2213

[Guest]

Great! You Finally decided to make your first post in response to something, But you decided not to read the thread.  How else could you ask these question.  But you keep coming back for your Blood money,  I guess we all know where your coming from....thanks for the heads up,  I would'ent think I guy thats doing it for the money is gonna put his neck on the line for me anyway.

←

However you want to look at it, this is a job. Yes, I love the job, and it is my trade, however I also enjoy the money I make. I have three young children and want to provide the best life possible for them, and every dollar counts. If I can make some extra via callback, then I'm doing it.

However, that doesn't mean I don't do my job well. I love my job. And call me whatever you want, and make whatever allegations toward me you wish, but I will go back during callback, because my department needs my, and I want the money too. Nothing is going to get accomplished by refusing to go into callback. In fact, maybe telling the taxpayers of these districts that they are paying for firefighters to fight fire in Mount Vernon, NOT where they pay taxes, may be better.......

It seems some people on this thread have a problem with EVERYTHING. I'm starting to see why there are such issues......

[Guest]

Your obviously ignorant to this whole issue and shouldn't make any assumptions if you don't work there to witness first hand FDMV's problem with Staffing. What aren't you understanding? The past few classes of Probies, just replaced guys who retired, who were also victims of FDMV's inadequate manpower levels. Hence, no increase in manning to bring your total number up, just bring it back to where it was  prior to these members retiring. Get It, Got It, Good!

←

For your info, the number has been constant for the last 50 years. FDMV has no openings, it is totally filled to capicity.... This is fact!

[Guest jrc163]

For your info, the number has been constant for the last 50 years. FDMV has no openings, it is totally filled to capicity.... This is fact!

←

Granted we are at full capacity, but at least a dozen of those members, (not including the probies) are on line of duty or light duty, also if you read the earlier posts this has been a problem for over twnty years that chief campbell was aware of and tried to institute a long term plam for, but was ignored. OUR FULL CAPACITY IS NOT SUFFICIENT ENOUGH FOR THE AMOUNT OF WORK WE GET! WE NEED TO CHANGE THE CITY CHARTER.

[Guest]

However you want to look at it, this is a job. Yes, I love the job, and it is my trade,  however I also enjoy the money I make.  I have three young children and want to provide the best life possible for them, and every dollar counts. If I can make some extra via callback, then I'm doing it.

However, that doesn't mean I don't do my job well. I love my job. And call me whatever you want, and make whatever allegations toward me you wish, but I will go back during callback, because my department needs my, and I want the money too. Nothing is going to get accomplished by refusing to go into callback. In fact, maybe telling the taxpayers of these districts that they are paying for firefighters to fight fire in Mount Vernon, NOT where they pay taxes, may be better.......

It seems some people on this thread have a problem with EVERYTHING. I'm starting to see why there are such issues......

←

You've got the attitude that exactly is destroying the Fire Service of today and that's why your little dept. will never progress with the times because like you said in both posts, it's a trade and a job that you need to provide for your family. Well as far as I can recall, the Fire Service was always a calling. Not now though. It's no different than stocking shelves at CVS or pumping gas at Getty. Maybe you should have gone to College and gotten a degree so you could make enough money to support your family and pay your bills brother. Then again, I'm sure your making more than the average firefighter in the Vern for doing half the runs. Oh, wait a minute, you actually make more for coming back for the blood money responding in on M/A to FDMV. So long as you and other collegues of yours hold on to this attitude, the fire service is doomed. As far as I know also, refusing O.T. on callback to replace manpower that has been sent out of town, is not cosidered a job action. Striking is though, and not that I'm in favor of job actions, sometimes though, that's what it takes to get your message across to the politicians and the public. Let's not forget one of the biggest job actions in West.Cnty., and that was the Yonkers FD. striking during the 1970's. And look at them now and look at your Dept's. position as well as FDMV. Who's better off? Like has been said before, don't worry about the safety of the FDMV members and their civilians, worry about your own. I don't think the citizens of Mt.Vernon are actually worried about being rescued or having their property saved by m/a depts. By the time you guys get there, they'll either be staring at their ruins or will be on their way to the ER from having jumped from their 3'rd fl. window. The taxpayers of Mt.Vernon deserve to have quick and adequate fire protection around the clock, not responding with a 10 -20 minute delay. That's ludicrous! Obviously, you don't seem to hold the same concern for your own fellow ffs. or your taxpayers, and that's sad. What really pisses me off though, is your probably one of those guys that bitches and moans about not having enough career guys around the clock to provide fire protection to their civilians and must rely on volunteers who don't show up, but at the same time your willing to jump on a rig or come in on O.T. to respond on M/A to the Vern. Guys like you should really figure out which side of the fence your on, and s*** or get of the pot. Please Stop being such Hypocrites!

[FirNaTine 370]

For your info, the number has been constant for the last 50 years. FDMV has no openings, it is totally filled to capicity.... This is fact!

←

And you sir are living in the land of OZ and drinking too much Cool Aid as Bill O'Reilly would say. FDMV may not have any openings as you state, because they don't know how to handle the 20 or so members in LOD Limbo, that are still on the books and are neither here nor there. There's so many guys out on LOD, they make up another whole squad. Go Figure! Maybe it's time to change the City Charter, and increase the Depts. manpower like has been brought up to the Chief of OPS. by the Union Pres.?

[turk182 37]

I have to agree with everything Chris has to say. His last sentence perhaps the most. "Any further discussions shouldn’t take place on this forum."

Now if there was only a place for us (Westchester Career Firefighters) to sit down and talk things out and form some plans. Can anyone say Coaliliton. I nominate Chris MaCcann.