Record high fuel prices, a way of life ?

[Guest]

I want to thank Porsha911gt3 for reminding me that the prior gas thread title "heading to $3" is now obsolete. I've decided to close it since it's "run out of gas"

It is a sad state of affairs for all of us that $3/gal was a "possibility" on 4-6-06, just 16 days ago, as we now seem to head into unknown territory....

One thing is for sure (in my opinion), the war for the US to become energy independent is as important as the war to avert terrorist acts on our soil. Let's start the ball rolling on demanding E85 fuel available everywhere and, all new vehicle engines flex-fuel ready ! It's just one step but I think it would put us on the right course. Again, just my personal opinion...

Gasoline prices shoot up nearly 3 cents

AAA survey puts average gallon of regular about 17 cents below all-time record

.

April 22, 2006: 9:18 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -

The average price of a regular gallon of gasoline at a self-service pump surged nearly three cents Saturday, and is now about 17 cents below the all-time record, the motorist advocacy group AAA said.

High crude prices, which reached a record above $75 a barrel Friday, and a switch to cleaner-burning summer gasoline that has resulted in some reports of shortages are being blamed for the recent surge in pump prices.

In its Daily Fuel Gauge Report, AAA said the national average rose to $2.884 from $2.855 Friday, an increase of 2.9 cents.

The average is 17.3 cents below the $3.057 record set last Sept. 5, during the Labor Day weekend, after Hurricane Katrina disrupted oil production and refinery along the U.S. Gulf Coast.

The price is up more than 37 cents from a month ago, when the price was $2.511 a gallon, and it's 62.6 cents higher than a year ago, when the average was $2.218.

Three states - California, Hawaii and New York - and Washington, D.C., have average regular gas prices above $3 a gallon, according to AAA.

Hawaii has the highest average price at $3.199 a gallon. The lowest average price is $2.521 a gallon in Wyoming.

AAA said the average price of a gallon of midgrade gas rose 3.1 cents to $3.062 a gallon, while the average price of premium increased 3.1 cents to $3.173. Diesel rose 1.5 cents to $2.893 a gallon.

Edited April 23, 2006 by hoss

[Guest]

April 23, 2006

Plant That Brewed Beer Shifts Attention to Ethanol

By DANNY HAKIM

THE NEW YORK TIMES

FULTON, N.Y., April 19 —

Sometimes Rick O'Shea still hears the beer bottles clanking in the shadows of the old Miller Brewing plant here, where he worked until the place closed more a decade ago.

Now he is the engineering director of a project aiming to turn the ghostly, 420-acre complex into the Northeast's first ethanol production plant, churning biofuel out of the massive vats that once brewed Miller Lite.

"Every vessel you see is going to be reused," said Mr. O'Shea, 50, standing in the darkened plant's west brewhouse before two stainless steel kettles, each large enough to hold 45,000 gallons of beer. "We've got fermentation tanks, we've got cooking vessels, that's what lured the ethanol project here."

With gas costing $3 a gallon in many parts of the country and much of the oil producing world in turmoil, the lure of homegrown fuel is a powerful one.

Gov. George E. Pataki is intent on making the state the vanguard of ethanol production in the Northeast, and the Fulton plant is one of the projects in the region that is closest to fruition.

Certainly, there is a market. New environmental regulations are spurring a rapid rise in demand for ethanol this year as a replacement for Methyl tert-butyl ether, a gasoline additive better known as MTBE that has been linked to groundwater contamination.

But in the United States, ethanol has always been a Midwestern fuel, and one of limited environmental benefit because it is made from corn, which requires considerable resources to grow and harvest.

Now, New York is investing millions of dollars in research on corn-free ethanol. The State University of New York is spearheading that effort, which would produce ethanol using chips from willow trees instead.

"We pull out the things that are normally thrown away by a pulp and paper mill," said Neil Murphy, the president of SUNY's College of Environmental Science and Forestry in Syracuse, which is also working with an International Paper plant in Ticonderoga, N.Y.

Essentially, the goal is to use the willow chips to make paper in Ticonderoga and then ship a syrupy byproduct to Fulton, where it can be brewed into ethanol, also known as grain alcohol.

Not that the process is ready for prime time. Mass production using this approach is largely untested.

So the owners of the Fulton plant, a fledgling local company called Northeast Biofuels, hope to start by producing corn-based ethanol at the beginning of 2008, and plan to later experiment with ethanol from wood chips.

They formed a partnership with an established Canadian ethanol producer, Permolex, and even received a $3 million loan from the pension funds of two union locals in the Syracuse region who see jobs in the reconstruction of the brewery.

"Ultimately, where is the demand for ethanol going to be?" asked Eric W. Will II, one of the owners of Northeast Biofuels. "It's going to be where the automobiles are, where you need the motor fuels, and that's called the East Coast and the West Coast."

Douglas Brent, the co-chairman of Permolex, said that building plants closer to areas densely populated with cars was "the future of the industry."

"It's pretty easy to transport corn, pretty hard to transport ethanol," he added.

The project could bring some jobs back to a region that has seen an exodus of both people and manufacturing work.

The Miller plant, which once employed 1,200 people, is on a stretch of land abutted by Interstate 481 and the Oswego River, as well as train tracks that would carry corn from the Midwest. A 40-foot-high Miller sign leans against the side of the plant.

"Miller installed that back in the mid-80's," Mr. O'Shea said. He pointed to a 180-foot high pole nearby. "It used to be on top of the pole and had a clutch on it. It would tether in the wind, light up at night and rotate."

For several years, he has been part of a crew overseeing the plant, and taking part in a restoration effort has been therapeutic, he said.

Mr. Will, whose family started the Will & Baumer candle company in the Syracuse area a century and a half ago, bought the brewery in 2000, along with a partner.

The project, coming at a time when demand for ethanol was more modest, got off to a slow start.

"Wall Street didn't know anything about ethanol," Mr. Will said. "They didn't even know what questions to ask."

In the current climate, even a dedicated oil man like President Bush is talking up ethanol and wood chips, most prominently in his last State of the Union address.

There has also been a movement to make ethanol more widely available as a primary motor fuel rather than selling it as just an additive.

There are already more than four million cars and trucks on the road that have the option of running on a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline, known as E85, but only roughly 500 gas stations in the nation sell it.

In the Northeast, there are no public gas stations where you can buy E85.

That will soon change.

Governor Pataki, whose government-issued Chevrolet Suburban runs on E85, recently put in place an initiative to bring ethanol and other alternative fuels to the service stations on the New York State Thruway, beginning this year.

His budget also included $20 million for production of non corn-based ethanol, though last week a dispute with the Legislature led him to veto his own proposed tax credits for ethanol production.

For Mr. Will, it is also a chance to bring a new kind of business to a region badly in need of economic development.

"This is where I live, my four kids live here," he said. "We have to undertake projects and initiatives to keep people around."

[cas2383 22]

Brazil Made a 3 year transition to now I believe that over 90% of their vehicles run on 85% ethanol. We sure can do it. Gas prices are too high for the avg person these days.

[Guest VFDJrSqd02]

At the gas station I work at it is 3.14 for regular, 3.23 for mid grade and 3.34 for premium. The prices are outrageous. The boss told me that they are going to keep going up because the driving season starts on Memorial Day and that is when they jack the prices up. The prices are getting out of control.

[trauma74 111]

If Brazil can have 90% of their vehicles run on E85, then there is no reason why the US cannot do the same thing. This is how I see it. We would greatly reduce our dependence on terrorist (I mean Foreign) oil. Also, it would help out our own country because farmers would need to grow more corn or whatever else to produce the ethanol. We will be spending our money supporting industry in our homeland.

Edited April 23, 2006 by trauma74

[WAS967 97]

Didn't I hear recently that Ethanol actually produces more polutants than Gasoline? Tho I agree we definatly need to reduce our dependance on foreign fuels.

[Guest]

WAS967 and others, here's some more info:

What is cellulosic ethanol?

Though the majority of ethanol produced in the U.S. is made from corn, new technology has been developed to make ethanol from a wider variety of "cellulosic" sources.

These cellulosic sources for ethanol include corn stover (the stalks and residue left over after harvest), grain straw, switchgrass, quick-growing tree varieties (such as poplar or willow), or even municipal waste.

Ethanol's impact on air quality

Using ethanol-blended fuel has a positive impact on air quality. Ethanol is an oxygenate, and that oxygen helps the fuel burn more cleanly and more completely - a cleaner fuel for cleaner air.

Many areas of the country have used ethanol in order to meet EPA clean air standards with great results. Ethanol reduces the emissions of carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds, and toxic air emissions.

source: http://www.ethanol.org/index.htm (great web site)

Edited April 23, 2006 by hoss

[Guest]

They say we can see prices for regular to go as high as 3.50, i say the companies are gauging. Its about time the government started looking out for us.

[Guest]

I got a Chain Letter E-mail. Basically it said boy cot Mobil and Exxon the largest gas companies and the price of gas will drop quickly. Not that i'm a rebell, but its my way of sticking it to the man.

[Guest]

a boycott wouldnt work - if you stop going to mobil/exxon you go to your "mom and pop" gas stations, thing is, they get their gas from mobil/exxon/getty/whatever so there really is no way to stick it to the man because the man has his hand in everything :X

[Guest]

at least you don't live in Europe--it's about $7/gallon over there...

[subband 0]

exxon/mobil $11.7 billion in profit in one quarter????? who is kidding who..we keep paying they keep getting fatter wallett's.... One state every day does'nt buy gas...lets see how quick they lower the prices

[Porsha911gt3 8]

I wonder how long it takes the Greedy Oil companies to pay off some congressman to fight that the ethanol should NOT be allowed because it'll hurt their business.

[27east 19]

ok so YES it is important to develop alternative fuel sources. But is now the right time to start adding Ethanol into the gas? No. Why? Becuase we have a crisis on our hands. We are horrbily dependant on, as Tramua74 said, TERRORIST OIL. We should be spending money on new fuels. But taking MTBE out now was a terrible cave-in to the tree-hugger lobby. Plus, we wont drill for our OWN oil or build a new refinery. oh oh the caribou...

Other then the fact that we have such little refinery capacity, look at the numbers. The gasoline stockpiles are dropping each week. Forget $3.50, try $4.

Edited April 24, 2006 by 23piraf

[PC414 0]

(Note: I also posted this on Putnam911.com)

Although I doubt the local gas station has a huge impact, taking just a moment to let the manager/owner (as opposed to simply the cashier) know that you're appreciative and "publicizing" their lower prices - which should generate additional business for the business - may help a bit over the long-term.

An e-mail and/or letter to State and Congressional representatives (as well as Gov. Pataki and anyone else you can think of) can't hurt.

My personal concern is the continuing high (and record) PROFITS the oil companies enjoy. Profit (as I understand it), in a capitalistic system, is necessary for future investment and growth - but there might need to be an imposed cap (if one isn't voluntarily accepted). Can the oil industry sustain a profit of just two billion dollars (per company) instead of ten billion by "swallowing" the costs of the new additives, etc., rather than passing those mandated costs on to us? Could their upper management "survive" on 15 million dollars per year instead of 365 million?

The world situation/economy is complex and there is no doubt - to me - that the American way of doing business is far better than socialism/communism or extreme governmental regulation .... still, I can barely afford the 35 mile roundtrip to work anymore on my $31,000 annual salary. What is a minor inconvenience to the oil company executive earning $365 million a year is a HUGE financial disaster for me (and, I'll bet, many of you who are reading this).

Write a letter to someone ... ANYONE ... so the pain might be shared just a little more fairly.

PC414

[trauma74 111]

Here is a question? Why do we import so much oil? Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Texas have a lot of oil? What about all of the offshore drilling rigs? Where is all this oil going? We should be drilling the hell out of Alaska in the wildlife areas to get the oil we need. Do you really think the animals will give a damn if oil is taken out of the ground? I highly doubt it!

As far as all this BS about MTBE etc. The government could not have picked a worse time to mandate MTBE to be taken out of gasoline. What were they thinking? Did they not know that supplies would run short? Do they not realize that there has not been a new refinery built in the US since the 70s? Give me a break!

The fact of the matter is, that we need to GREATLY reduce our need for foreign oil. These terrorist countries have us by the balls. We need there oil and they need our money to set up terrorist training camps and train their people to kill innocent Americans.

No matter what Bush says, we all know that he owns oil stocks and he is making a bunch of money right now. I have always been a Republican, but Bush needs to remove his head from his @$%.

As I stated in an earlier post, if Brazil can stop importing oil, we can do the same. Ethanol is the way to go. It is cleaner burning and better for the environment anyway.

<end of rant!>

[ex-commish 490]

Ethanol is the way to go but we are victims of an administration ( and I am a republican) that seems to have high interest in oil companies. In my opinion Mr. Bush should have a summit with the oil company leaders and demand they lower the prices on behalf of all of us. The federal trade commision needs a fire lit in thier a**es as well and start investigating why the prices are so high.

Unless we the voting taxpayers and consumers make governement accountable we will continue to pay over 3 dollars a gallon for gas. Iran will be the next excuse as to why we will be paying 4 dollars when oil gets near 100 dollars a barrel. We have to stop financing those who despise our way of life.

[Guest]

I found this link to be a great way to tell the pols in DC what you think. Just input your zip code under "elected officials" and press enter :

http://capwiz.com/ethanol/home/

[Guest]

I agree with asstchieffd - The government, spefically Pres. Bush (whom I do think, despite popular opinion, has done a solid job in handling the past 7 years) needs to step up here and do 2 things: (1) Mandate some consumer relief with regard to gas prices and (2) Focus a huge effort on alternate fuels especially those fuels that can easily be produced in our country such as Ethanol - by the way there is NO good argument why Ethanol cannot be produced soon for mass usage. I don't want to hear about environmental impacts (to which there are far less than the current fuel) - I don't want to hear about timing either - there is no better time to introduce Ethanol - people are fed up and pockets are hurting. By the way those same Gas companies - exxon and Mobil will be the ones benefitting from Ethanol as well...don't you worry.

[Guest]

This piece was written 1 year ago !!! Like SFD302 said, this can be done NOW !

Published on Sunday, April 17, 2005 by the Star Tribune (Minneapolis, MN) 

The Future of Ethanol 

by David Morris

Want to see the potential of biofuels? Visit Brazil, as I did a few weeks ago.

In Brazil, by law, all gasoline contains a minimum of 25 percent alcohol. Yet ethanol is so popular it actually accounts for 40 percent of all vehicle fuel.

By 2007, 100 percent of all new Brazilian cars may be able to run on 100 percent ethanol. Brazilian sugar-cane-fed biorefineries will be capable of producing sufficient ethanol to allow the entire fleet, new and old cars alike, to do so.

In Brazil, ethanol is now being used in aviation. Small planes, like crop dusters, are switching to ethanol because it is a superior fuel and is more widely available, even in remote parts of the country, than conventional aviation fuel.

Its stunning success with ethanol has encouraged Brazil to begin displacing diesel fuel with vegetable oils from its vast soybean crop. Within 15 years it expects to substitute biodiesel for 20 percent of its conventional diesel.

One more detail. Back in the mid 1990s, Brazil ended its ethanol subsidies.

Nevertheless, with world oil prices hovering around $55 a barrel, the price of ethanol today is only half that of gasoline. Since its inception, Brazil's ethanol program has displaced imported oil worth $120 billion. This is comparable to a savings of almost $2 trillion for a U.S.-sized economy.

Back in Minnesota, our vehicles remain stuck at the 10 percent ethanol level first achieved almost a decade ago.

Yet today, ethanol produced within the state could displace 25 percent of gasoline consumed within the state.

Without increasing crop acreage, Minnesota could become self-sufficient in passenger-vehicle fuel and significantly displace diesel fuels.

Minnesota arrived at this enviable situation as a result of farsighted state policies.

In the early 1980s the state ethanol incentive mirrored the federal incentive -- a partial exemption from the gasoline tax. That incentive increased demand, but every drop of ethanol was imported into the state.

In the mid 1980s, Minnesota's farmers successfully petitioned the Legislature to restructure the state incentive to encourage in-state production of ethanol.

The incentive became a direct payment of 20 cents per gallon. There were limits: The ethanol had to be produced in Minnesota. The incentive was available only for the first 15 million gallons produced each year. The incentive lasted only for 10 years per plant.

The restructured incentive has made Minnesota home to 15 small- and medium-sized ethanol plants (18 by the end of 2005). The biorefineries' relatively small size has enabled a significant proportion of the state's full-time grain farmers to become owners. This dramatically boosts the local economic benefit of such facilities.

Because of the incentive's time limit, within the next year or two, more than half of all state ethanol production will receive no incentive. Several new plants are being built without a state incentive.

Brazil has shown us that biofuels can be a primary fuel rather than simply a gasoline additive. Here are seven policies Minnesota should adopt to imitate Brazil's success.

1. Immediately request a waiver from the federal government to allow a 20 percent ethanol blend in all vehicles. Gov. Tim Pawlenty has indicated his desire to do so. The request should come from many states, not just one, and the cost of all the required testing should be shared by these states. If all 29 states whose governors have joined the Governors Ethanol Coalition chipped in, the cost would be a trivial $100,000 per state.

2. Aggressively expand the number of Minnesota gas stations that offer ethanol as a primary fuel (E85). Adding $15 million to the state bonding bill would enable every gas station in Minnesota to have at least one E85 pump.

3. Require all governments in Minnesota to purchase flexible-fueled vehicles. Several dozen popular models are already available and on the roads.

4. Develop a 20 percent renewable transportation fuels mandate that mirrors the 20 percent renewable electricity portfolio mandate that many states have passed.

5. Inspire a public discussion about redesigning the federal biofuels incentives so that they are tied to the price of oil. If oil rises above a certain level (say, $60 per barrel) the incentive would completely disappear. If it drops below a certain level (say, $35 per barrel) it would be equal to the current incentive.

6. Focus on converting the state's abundant cellulosic materials into energy. Brazilian biorefineries are virtually energy self-sufficient because they burn bagasse to power and heat the mill and refineries.

Bagasse, the fiber fraction of cane, is brought to the mill along with the sugar cane.

In Minnesota the corn stover (stalk, etc.) is not transported to the mill along with the corn kernels. The Chippewa Valley Ethanol Cooperative (CVEC) is developing innovative ways to economically transport the stover to the mill. Given the high price of natural gas, and the resulting pressure on ethanol plants to shift to coal, Minnesota should immediately provide the funds to accelerate the use of cellulose in the ethanol plants (first for heating and later for making ethanol itself).

7. Make farmer ownership the state's ownership preference. New ethanol plants are very large and absentee-owned. The ethanol they produce is welcome, but they do not generate the local and regional economic and social benefits that farmer-owned plants do.

David Morris is vice president of the Minneapolis-based Institute for Local Self-Reliance.

[Guest]

nice find Hoss! The truth is our country's hesitation to do this is based on foreign investments/Interests - it's a shame but I hope public opinion on this matter comes front and center in this year's elections. Someone recently said in a thread that they hoped gas prices went up to $5 per gallon just so something will finally be done - I see where that argument is coming from.

[Porsha911gt3 8]

From CNN today

Ford to help drivers pay off their pollution

Drivers can pay clean energy firms to remove the same amount of pollution cars create.

DETROIT, April 26 (Reuters) - Ford Motor Co. said it will give consumers concerned about harmful greenhouse emissions an opportunity to invest in clean energy projects via a new Web Site that will calculate suggested investments based on the amount of carbon dioxide produced while driving.

In a program called "Greener Miles," which is expected to be announced on Thursday, consumers can go to the Web Site to calculate the amount of carbon dioxide produced in one year of driving. The Web site will then suggest an investment linked to the cost of producing an amount of clean energy equivalent to the carbon dioxide produced.

Ford is partnering with TerraPass, a group that helps finance solar, wind and methane-driven energy projects, for the project, Niel Golightly, director of Ford's sustainable business strategies, told Reuters in an interview.

"We know that there is a growing number of customers out there that are starting to raise questions about this whole subject of climate change and energy security... and looking for things they can do to address it," Golightly said.

The consumer contributions -- ranging from $29.95 to $79.95 annually depending on the type of vehicle, amount of carbon dioxide emitted and miles traveled -- will be invested in U.S.-based projects such as wind power energy or making power from dairy farm manure.

An average car produces between 10,000 pounds and 12,000 pounds of carbon dioxide a year, Tom Arnold, TerraPass chief environmental officer, said.

The initial projects that would benefit from contributions from Ford buyers are a wind farm in Ainsworth, Nebraska, and Haubenschild Farms near Princeton, Minnesota, which converts manure into electricity, he said.

In exchange, consumers get a sticker for their windshield verifying the offset of carbon dioxide the vehicle emits.

Ford said it has no plans to run a broad-based advertising campaign for the initiative.

Instead, Ford dealers will be given brochures on the project and consumers will be directed to the Web site from several Ford product sites, Arnold said.

Arnold said it was hard to say how many consumers will participate in the project.

Ford Chairman and Chief Executive Bill Ford, great-grandson of the company founder and a lifelong environmentalist, has made efforts to portray the automaker as an environmentally aware "green" company.

But the company and Bill Ford have often been the target of environmental groups that decry the company's dismal fuel economy record.

Golightly said Ford is also working to improve the fuel-efficiency of its fleet, investing in alternative-fuel vehicles and working to reduce emissions from its factories.

The Greener Miles project "is a very incremental part of our overall climate change policy," Golightly said. "This is an opportunity for us to engage our consumers a bit more."

[xfirefighter484x 234]

From CNN today

←

Ok...sounds nice...but still doesn't help me pay for my gas goin' back and forth to school

[trollman200 5]

are there any gas stations or companies that use domestic oil? like somone said before, where is all our oil going?

[Guest]

All our oil is already being put to use. We are importing 60 % of what we consume every day ! The imported % has gone up sharply in the past 20 yrs. and is what makes us dependent on the Venezuelas, Nigerias and Saudis.

And no, opening up the Alaska wildlife areas will not sub for the imported oil. Bottom line, we either consume less or find another fuel we can pour in our tanks which can be produced in the US, hence, the case for ethanol from corn, soybeans, sugar cane and other reliable sources (like importing from Brazil).

It looks like the "consuming less" part is something we are not too good at since, in the 1st 3 mos. of 06 the % of vehicles sold with V8 engines stayed the same as previous year. And let's not kid ourselves, all this talk about hydrogen is pie in the sky! It's not going to help us in the next 10 yrs.

Edited April 29, 2006 by hoss