Car fires- Hood/trunk access

[Guest]

After drills & calls, I have seen some issues with gaining access to the engine compartment and trunk area, and now I would like everyones opinion. At times at car fires, you can just pull the release but when that isn't feasible, whats the easiest most effective way?

In my opinion the easiest quickest way is to utilize say the K650 or K12 to cut the hood/trunk to gain access. In a matter of minutes you can gain access, so why do we continue to play around with hand tools. If you need to make an attack on one of these particular fires, yes you can just take the haligan and open it from the side to make a point of entry for the hose team, but why not jut cut it. Then you have unlimited access.

If possible I would like people to add some of their opinions/options on this issue, to better enhance our Car Fire Operations.

Let's look at the safest most effective way of extinguishing as well, safety first!!

[mfc2257 464]

If you are merely looking to get the fire put out quickly here are a few tricks I've learned over the years.....

For the trunk, if you can't get it open and you need to get the fire put out, don't waste time firing up the saw or spreaders. Take a halligan or a sledge hammer and take out the tail light assemblies. Most of the time you can access the trunk through the space where the assemby was before you took your frustration out on it. If there isn't an interior fire, see if the rear seats fold down. Finally take out the rear window with tool of choice, then punch the speakers through the rear deck....

For the hood, again for a quick extinguisment without relying on setting up hydraulic tools or saws, take the pointed end of a halligan or pick head and pierce the hood near the front corners about 6-8 inches in and up (for hoods that open from the front of the car) then leverage the tool to peel back the hood like a can of tuna. You'll be able to get enough water/foam in there from each side to kill the fire. For old Saabs and BMW's whos hoods open forward (hinges are up by the radiator not back by the fire wall) do the same technique except by the back of the hood.

[Guest]

After drills & calls, I have seen some issues with gaining access to the engine compartment and trunk area, and now I would like everyones opinion. At times at car fires, you can just pull the release but when that isn't feasible, whats the easiest most effective way?

In my opinion the easiest quickest way is to utilize say the K650 or K12 to cut the hood/trunk to gain access. In a matter of minutes you can gain access, so why do we continue to play around with hand tools. If you need to make an attack on one of these particular fires, yes you can just take the haligan and open it from the side to make a point of entry for the hose team, but why not jut cut it. Then you have unlimited access.

If possible I would like people to add some of their opinions/options on this issue, to better enhance our Car Fire Operations.

Let's look at the safest most effective way of extinguishing as well, safety first!!

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I most often see hoods/trunks removed by using hand tools and tripping the cables. However, it is time consuming sometimes and can allow the fire time to spread. I have seen a reciprocating saw used in a training video and it was super quick - they made a diagonal cut and removed about a 1/3 of the hood. I guess it depends on SOGs. What are the risks in using something simple to set up like a reciprocating saw? I guess don't cut too deep - maybe a guard like our chainsaws have could be invented.

[grumpyff 1,159]

For easy access to a trunk, take the pointed end of a haligan tool and place it next to the lock cylinder. Strike the flat end of the haligan with an axe/sledghammer and drive the point thru the sheet metal. Then use the adz end of the haligan tool as a leverage as you lift the haligan, pulling so that the point is pushing on the back of the lock cylinder. Or, put the haligan point thru the lock, and jimmy open with a screw driver.

For hoods, I've always felt it was easier/quicker to pry open part of the hood and shove the nozzle in, to knock down the fire. After the fire is out, then you can worry about opening the hood all the way, safely.

[IzzyEng4 427]

Best way to put out a truck / engine compartment fire, get a piercing rod or APE tool. If you don't have or can't afford it, Take your halligan, spike the edge of the lid and pull / push it back. Once the notch is far enough to get the adz end in, then pyi it up. Don't stick the nozzle in all the way, set it to a narrow fog (adjustable) or if using a smooth bore, play with the shut off to get a broken stream. Another method I have seen use by one of our neighboring departments is to use a SG-50 with the "pineapple" attachment and use that to get into the truck / engine compartment.

As for opening and getting by the latches, I would only use a K-12 if it really needed to be done. If there is a lot of damage then yah, go for it. But I personally don't like to use it if it doesn't need to be used. There are other methods Like Grumpyff stated. Just takes practice to get it open.

[gss131 212]

quick way for hood when handle is burnt off ,rip grill off with point of halligan,place fork over cable and rotate halligan to either side.will pop hood, just be aware of whats going on around bumper pistons when operating in front of car ,if there is a good amount of fire,pry up hood from side and avoid the front.

[Guest alsfirefighter]

At any car fire you want to limit personnel access to the direct front and rear at all cost.

For the hood, the pick end of the halligan into the corner to peel the hood back enough to get the nozzle in there on a medium fog will knock down most of the fire, it also allows for some steam build up to assist in this as well as cool down the shock absorbing bumpers to make it safer for personnel to gain access to the front of the vehicle. Once its cool and fire is knocked down, then you can remove the grill and find the cable if its not severed close to the hood release. grab it with a pair of pliers or fork end of the halligan and twist in the opposite direction until it releases.

Hood, as mentioned in all the other posts. They are not difficult to get into and remember if all else fails the back seats come out. It might not be the best, nor the neatest but if your having difficulty it works.

Another great tool I've seen is the angus tool. Its in the piercing nozzle family where a 1 3/4 line attaches to it, you swing it like a sledge hammer through the hood or trunk and open it up for extinguishment. It is extremely efficient to knock down compartment fires on cars quickly and allows for safer opening up.

[firemoose827 324]

At any car fire you want to limit personnel access to the direct front and rear at all cost.

For the hood, the pick end of the halligan into the corner to peel the hood back enough to get the nozzle in there on a medium fog will knock down most of the fire, it also allows for some steam build up to assist in this as well as cool down the shock absorbing bumpers to make it safer for personnel to gain access to the front of the vehicle.  Once its cool and fire is knocked down, then you can remove the grill and find the cable if its not severed close to the hood release.  grab it with a pair of pliers or fork end of the halligan and twist in the opposite direction until it releases. 

Hood, as mentioned in all the other posts.  They are not difficult to get into and remember if all else fails the back seats come out.  It might not be the best, nor the neatest but if your having difficulty it works.

Another great tool I've seen is the angus tool.  Its in the piercing nozzle family where a 1 3/4 line attaches to it, you swing it like a sledge hammer through the hood or trunk and open it up for extinguishment.  It is extremely efficient to knock down compartment fires on cars quickly and allows for safer opening up.

←

I agree with the piercing nozzles...safest way to get the job done with todays shock absorbing bumpers, and shock and strutt assemblies. No need for us to be in front of these dangerous missiles when they go off, its a car fire, and if no life is in jeopardy the car is going to be a total loss anyway, so approach from the side with a piercing nozzle. If you dont have one make a hole with the halligan and drop a cellar nozzle in or a small handline on fog. Cool everything off and then gain access to extinguish.

Trunk...I find the removal of the lock cylinder the easiest and quickest. Knock it out with the halligan and work the mechanism with a screw driver.

Hood...If you cant pop the cable, pry up the hood near the catch and cut catch with a sawsall. Or cut around catch with a few quick cuts from K-12. Usually a quick "V" cut. Everyone that gets off truck should have some type of tool in hand and ready to use it.

Jonesy

[cas2383 22]

Engine compartment, like someone said about the rear trunk, go right thru the headlight assemblies with a halligan, makes a nice hole and usually gives decent access to allow a nozzle right in there.

[Jason762 2]

Pretty much all the methods to gaining access to car fires have already been named so I won't waste time re-naming them. Instead I will offer a piece of advice from something I have personally seen happen. At a routine car fire a probie was told to open the hood to a car. He attempted to do so using a halligan bar and attempted to pry open the hood near the locking mechanism. He was met with a lot of resistance but continued to pry. Now this was a young, in shape, strong, former military man. Not some fat slob, or weak little guy. Well long story short, 9 months later and he is still out of work with back problems and the doctors (yes doctors as in multiple) can't seem to figure out how to fix him up. Not a good way to start you career, this guy had only a few months on the job.

Now my point in all this is, it is only a CAR FIRE. Who cares how we get into it, how much damage we cause, as long as WE stay safe. The car is done, insurance will take care of it. We have to stay safe, this kids career may be over, because of a stupid car fire. We carry lots of tools on our rigs, lets use them, why not use your partner saw??? There is no need to bust your a@$ to open a hood or trunk. Most of these car fires are arson jobs anyway, so take care of yourself and your partners.

[Remember585 815]

A lot of good feedback, and I think Jason said it best, our safety is #1.

I would rather see people either pull up the hood enough to shoot the line in or use a piercing nozzle thru the hood or fender. Why bust our a**? If we peel back the hood just enough to get the knob in there, the water that turns to steam on the underside of the hood will drip back down on the burning engine block and help with the suppression.

I agree with my Captain, go for the saw if you really need full access, why work up a sweat over something that is more then likely totalled.

And, in case people missed thier basic training, you don't need to punch a hole to stick a piercing nozzle in - it is designed to pierce, hence the name.

Good times......

[grumpyff 1,159]

I never really liked the piercing nozzle. Ours was always kept in a compartment, and took to long to deploy onto a hose line. It was always easier to go with hand tools and regular nozzle. One trick I picked up somewhere, was to use the pointed end of a haligan to pierce the hood(strike with axe) and use a dry chem extinguisher thru the hole for quick knock down if the fire is still small(contained to engine).

[antiquefirelt 994]

Looks good to me. My only comment is this. There's nothing worse than rollingin knocking down the fire, safely and quickly, and then spending 20 minutes looking like a Monkey F***ing a Football trying to open the hood! After the release mechanism/cable is gone or can't be pulled (not just in the passenger compartment) I recommend just going with a saw. I've seen great firefighters spend 15-20 miutes bending, banging, and prying to get into a hood. Now the public that was cheering after theknock down is lauging at the Keystone FD being outsmarted by a Yugo! 15 seconds and a V-cut, hood's open .

[grumpyff 1,159]

Now the public that was cheering after theknock down is lauging at the Keystone FD being outsmarted by a Yugo! 15 seconds and a V-cut, hood's open  .

yeah, that doesn't look good. After the fire is out, yes I could see using a sawz-all to open up the hood to ensure everything is out, and battery disconnected. Sawz-alls also does wonders in removing windshields during extrication calls.