EMS Response Times

[Guest]

Just wondering what the response times are thru-out the county. I know what they are when I work but I would like to hear what others say and how they document them on PCR/ACR. When I read the article on New Castle and North Castle getting cheaper ALS it says that Councilwoman Gerrard "won't support a service unless it costs a lot less". Makes me wonder how many people really understand what EMS does and that its not just a ride to the ER. Its not a victory to the citizens to get cheaper ALS if response times are bad. These are all wealthy communities that should have the same level of service as White Plains, Mt. Pleasant, even the Town of pelham has aa ALSFR. She clearly doesn't get it since response times does not appear to come into the picture or she is motivated strictly on votes and cost.

[Guest]

Just wondering what the response times are thru-out the county.  I know what they are when I work but I would like to hear what others say and how they document them on PCR/ACR.  When I read the article on New Castle and North Castle getting cheaper ALS it says that Councilwoman Gerrard "won't support a service unless it costs a lot less".  Makes me wonder how many people really understand what EMS does and that its not just a ride to the ER. Its not a victory to the citizens to get cheaper ALS if response times are bad.  These are all wealthy communities that should have the same level of service as White Plains, Mt. Pleasant, even the Town of pelham has aa ALSFR.  She clearly doesn't get it since response times does not appear to come into the picture or she is motivated strictly on votes and cost.

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The issue really goes beyond that. Look at New York City - anyone, even a skell on the street, gets a Paramedic Unit with TWO Paramedics. Meanwhile, you pay taxes up the wazoo and you cant even get an ambulance. Living in Rye Brook, i dont have to worry too much - PCRRB EMS is paid, RBFD is paid and Port Chester never seems to have a problem getting out, likewise response times to RB are negligable. When i document PCR times at work i just call up Putnam 911 and they give em right out. Where i volly, i either call up the Police dept. or 60 Ctrl (if its mutual aid) to get times. I've been lucky enough to get on a crew that is maid up for complete professionals - someone from the crew is always at the house during our duty time so the driving issue is never a big deal. But, ill give you a for instance. Got coffee with the medic who was doing an 8-4 as i was getting off an overnight, job comes in, its BLS page for a driver 3 times, no response, patient doesnt want to wait decides to RMA and go to the hospital herself. I just documented that i paged 3 times and the patient didnt want to wait for a driver so she decided to RMA, got her to sign the RMA and then i and the police officer signed the bottom of my PCR to substantiate the fact that she didnt want to wait.

[Guest]

Interesting topic for me, I will give an example of a call that went out this morning. I will not give the depts name.

08:21 Dept A dispatched to a delta level call 80 yom standing fall leg injury (broken hip)

then repeated

08:23 Re-dispatch no call ins

then repeated

08:25 Re-dispatch Dept A a full crew needed bla bla bla

then repeated

08:26 Re-dispatch Dept A needs a emt and driver to complete call last call beforre mutual aid

then repeated

08:27 Re-dispatch Dept A B C Delta level call for a 80 yom standing fall leg injury full crews needed from B and C an emt and driver needed from A Dept

then repeated

08:33 Re-dispatch Dept A B C D E (5 Depts called mutual aid for a delta level call)

then repeated

this continues till 08:42 a driver calls in so the ambulance can respond driver an attendant alone.

08:48 Ambulance A responding

08:52 Ambulance A on scene

The answer to the question about response times in this case is about 31 minutes

I would like to say that this is an unusual occurance but its not, thats where I live.

where I work under 5 minutes anytime everytime

[27east 19]

Look at New York City - anyone, even a skell on the street, gets a Paramedic Unit with TWO Paramedics.

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NYC is not all ALS. There are BLS units out there.

[firemoose827 324]

Does anyone here know more about the staggered dispatch? This post brings up interesting facts to support us adopting something like it everywhere. I was told it goes something similar to tanker42's post;

first tones-dept "A"

3 minutes later second tones-dept "A" and "B"

3 minutes more and 3rd tones- DEpt "A "B" and "C".

first rig enroute gets call.

I have been trying to push this to our county for a while now. We are mostly rural communities and it may take 5 minutes for the crew to reach the squad. I have seen it some times where the call will be rolled to four different agencies before they get a crew, and it might be an EMT from this dept with a driver from the other dept and the county medic riding along just to help out. We go the standard 3 tones with 3minutes in between, if no response after 3 tones its rolled to the closest available. Some rigs take 15-20 minute response times!!!

If anyone has more info, or a better system of dispatch to share I would appreciate it. Good post manpower, and something for a lot of us to think about.

Jonesy

[Guest]

NYC is not all ALS. There are BLS units out there.

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Yeah...im well aware of that. Point is you get a BLS unit in 2-5 minutes (two EMTs) and a Paramedic unit in 5-10 minutes (two paramedics) --> meaning the city provides a much higher level of care for its citizens then Westchester county provides for theirs.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

31 Min is a long time. Was there a Medic on scene waiting? This his how our Town works which has 3 VAC'S. Most of the Aided calls come to our PD first. Sometimes there is a transfer from WCDPS, NYSP, 60 Control, ETC.... I will say Town A although these are not really towns. Anyway, Town A gets dispatched from the PD. After aprrox 1-2 min if nobody has called in, they get dispatched again. If nothing after 1-2 min the appropriate next VAC gets called. To do this, we might have to call 60 Control who dispatches 1 other VAC or another PD, that dispatches the other VAC. The problem with that is, we don't know how long it is going to take to get the Mutual Aid amb out unless 60 Control or the other PD calls us back and lets us know. We log in the blotter that VAC was DISP/UNAVAIL. That way when checking numbers, the higher ups can see what went wrong. On certain instances, I have documented how long it took any AMB to get on scene and put it in the blotter. It doesn't seem to matter because nothing happens to the VAC'S if they don't show up.

So the on the original call, you could be looking at at least 4 min before anyone gets to the building. Then you have to wait for other members and so on. Usually, the Medic will be enroute and already on scene and sometimes calling for the AMB. That is unacceptable.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that it usually takes for someone in POWER to be on the end of waiting for the POLICE, FIRE, AMB before anything is done about it.

[Eagle24 2]

If anyone has more info, or a better system of dispatch to share I would appreciate it.  Good post manpower, and something for a lot of us to think about.

Jonesy

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Regarding regular BLS mutual aid...in my village PD will dipatch a few times, if no one has called in after three sets of tones, they immediately go to the next village over...since the next village over is a paid agency during the day, and have a lot of members that cover the nights, they are 100% efficient in calling in and saying whether they are available or not. If the medics are tied up, we will also know immediately and will request mutual aid from the next town's ALS service. It usually doesn't have to go beyond "village B", but the key is that we know immediately---communication is key with mutual aid...most people have cell phones, you might be able to have them call the dispathers directly if they're responding and don't have a radio(or their portable won't reach).

[Eagle24 2]

Just wondering what the response times are thru-out the county.  I know what they are when I work but I would like to hear what others say and how they document them on PCR/ACR. 

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I'm just curious on the PCR---if you have an EMT go straight to scene and initiate care, then the rig arrives sometime afterwards...do you record the "on scene" time as when the EMT gets there or the rig? Usually there's not much of a difference to really care about, but I'm just interested in the technical ruling on that...if there is one.

[Guest]

I think it's a joke that you should ever have to roll over to another town for a primary crew call. IF you can't even put a primary crew together, you're agency needs to get themselves in gear. This isn't a job where you do it when you want. You should be available a lot of the time - you don't choose when and when not to respond!!!!!

[Guest]

I would say have the EMT and driver write two seperate PCRs. Have the driver put on his PCR - "X paged for a driver, responded to the rig w/ notification EMT on scene at x time, enroute at x time, arrived on scene at x time, pt. transported to x ed w/ or w/o incident." and have an EMT fill his PCR according to when he arrived, what he did, etc.

[firemoose827 324]

I would say have the EMT and driver write two seperate PCRs. Have the driver put on his PCR - "X paged for a driver, responded to the rig w/ notification EMT on scene at x time, enroute at x time, arrived on scene at x time, pt. transported to x ed w/ or w/o incident." and have an EMT fill his PCR according to when he arrived, what he did, etc.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but arent EMT's the only ones aloud to write PCR's, and even then why would the EMT driver need to fill out a PCR instead of a run sheet with times. Just curious.

[Guest]

Re-read your protocol. On page PS-02-05 Page 1 "A PCR should be completed each time the agency is dispatched for any type of response. This includes (but is not limited to):

1) patients transported to any location 2) patients who refuse care and/or transport, 3) Patients treated by one agency and transported by another, 4) calls where no patient contact is made (IE: calls cancelled before reaching the scene, calls where no patient is located, when dispatched for a stand by, events.)"

If the policy of your agency is to respond to an emergency scene without a full crew – with the knowledge that an EMT is on scene – I would think it prudent to document that on a PCR, as a PCR is a legal document and admissible in court. Documentation is everything in this business.

[Guest]

Re-read your protocol. On page PS-02-05 Page 1 "A PCR should be completed each time the agency is dispatched for any type of response. This includes (but is not limited to):

1) patients transported to any location 2) patients who refuse care and/or transport, 3) Patients treated by one agency and transported by another, 4) calls where no patient contact is made (IE: calls cancelled before reaching the scene, calls where no patient is located, when dispatched for a stand by, events.)"

If the policy of your agency is to respond to an emergency scene without a full crew – with the knowledge that an EMT is on scene – I would think it prudent to document that on a PCR, as a PCR is a legal document and admissible in court. Documentation is everything in this business.

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What is the general consensus on response times. Having PD on scene...they do carry AED and O2 no BVM, no certifications... does that stop the clock for response times or is it an EMT or higher? Our town likes to boast they have an ideal EMS system and says PD is part of this. Where I work thats not the case. Our ALS unit stops the clock and goes on every call...and does so in usually 6 mins or less. You get the PD in about 4 mins in my town...not where I work... but the vollie crew responds from home so we are talking 12 mins? and this town doesn't have their own ALS as does neighboring towns. My thought is the one who can treat the patient is when the clock stops...the only time PD could be considered as stopping the clock is when its a call requiring AED....but thats like bystander intervention. We also don't have EMD dispatching.

[Guest]

MB JONES HOW YOU DOING ?

You asked about the staggered dispatch. I dont like it ! If you see my earlier post the dispatcher spent 31 minutes with 1 call. Luckily enough nobody else in the county needed an ambulance ( nobody could get a crew anyway) or had a fire at the same time. The airway was tied up the whole time.

For us we contract a professional ambulance service. We give out the call once loud clear and dont asked for a repeat. They get an exclusive contract ( not that much money) and bill the patients insurance they transport. I dont see how in this day, you can tone out basically begging for someone to please respond. Forget about the eighty year old on the floor in pain.

People say that thier taxes would go to high if they contracted for ambulance service. I say not ! With a professional service my property value would increase faster also. Dont think for a second that prospective buyers dont only check out the school systems when shoping for a house. They also check on services and public safety.

ONE EYE GREAT DAY

Yes a advance life support fly car was on scene in a reasonable amount of time just under 10 minutes. cop was on scene sooner. I dont now why this call was a delta level respose (delta = serious) It was dispatched as a 80 yom leg injury from a standing fall. No further went over the air( could of been more info on the phone that bumped it). For us that would send a BLS bus.

Stay Safe Stay Low

[jps385 0]

Yeah...im well aware of that. Point is you get a BLS unit in 2-5 minutes (two EMTs) and a Paramedic unit in 5-10 minutes (two paramedics) --> meaning the city provides a much higher level of care for its citizens then Westchester county provides for theirs.

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You need to check your facts about NYC EMS. Very few call types receive both a BLS and ALS ambulance. The BLS rsponse times are actually for a CFR-D Engine company (which does arrive in 2-5 minutes), however the ambulance times for both BLS and ALS are about 9-10 minutes on the average, and quite often are much higher(particularly during periods of peek demand when no units are available in an area for 10-15 minutes at a time). With the possible exception of the leadership of FDNY, and possibly polticians up for reelection no one involved in EMS in NYC would give the rosy perception of it as you. NYC has a system which fails to meet the standards of most national medical organization for ambulance response times, early defibrilation, as well as cardiac arrest suvival rates.

[Remember585 815]

My FD Ambulance is given 6 MINUTES after dispatch to be responding, otherwise the PD starts Mutual Aid.

As good as it may sound, there's problems with it. First, our PD is notorious for not following through with our dispatch policy. As far as I can see, nothing will ever change with this.

Another problem I see with this is our access to dispatch. We can have a crew of four coming from the firehouse on the north end to pick up the ambulance, but if we try to tell PD it's covered they give us an attitude and/or start Mutual Aid anyway. There's also desk officers that will tell us things like, "Too late, *VAC is coming." They do as they want, will always do what they want and we will continue to take it on the chin, so to speak.

Oh, and what do you do when PD gets the call, then calls the patrol cars, then calls for the Medic, then dispatches the rig?! Or, as I see happen in one neighboring town more and more, the PD will hit the tones 2, 3, 4 times before they even talk! Paid staff in quarters, but if you don't tell them where to go - now what?

Lastly, they are SUPPOST to contact 60 Control for Mutual Aid so that the closer agency is sent. Too many times they call *PD for *VAC - thus tying up ALL OF OUR ALS RESOURCES for what can be a non-emergency BLS call.

My point...EMS Staffing is a major issue when it comes to response times, but dispatch and communications is almost as vital too, and people forget that. Solving the problems with EMS response times is a multi-layered solution. Getting paid and/or volunteer help is one thing, but if you dispatchers blow, you ain't got a fair shot.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Remember585

[Eagle24 2]

I would say have the EMT and driver write two seperate PCRs. Have the driver put on his PCR - "X paged for a driver, responded to the rig w/ notification EMT on scene at x time, enroute at x time, arrived on scene at x time, pt. transported to x ed w/ or w/o incident." and have an EMT fill his PCR according to when he arrived, what he did, etc.

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Two PCR's to be filled out by one EMT is a little much for every time they go to the ER...We have driver's reports with times, mileage, vehicle problems, etc...I think the best way for documentation is the driver puts down his times on the driver report, and the EMT records his times on the PCR. . .my question is-is that following DOH/state protocols? Or should the EMT just record the "rig times" on the PCR, regardless of when the care was initiated...

[210 91]

My FD Ambulance is given 6 MINUTES after dispatch to be responding, otherwise the PD starts Mutual Aid.

As good as it may sound, there's problems with it.  First, our PD is notorious for not following through with our dispatch policy.  As far as I can see, nothing will ever change with this.

Another problem I see with this is our access to dispatch.  We can have a crew of four coming from the firehouse on the north end to pick up the ambulance, but if we try to tell PD it's covered they give us an attitude and/or start Mutual Aid anyway.  There's also desk officers that will tell us things like, "Too late, *VAC is coming."  They do as they want, will always do what they want and we will continue to take it on the chin, so to speak.

Oh, and what do you do when PD gets the call, then calls the patrol cars, then calls for the Medic, then dispatches the rig?!  Or, as I see happen in one neighboring town more and more, the PD will hit the tones 2, 3, 4 times before they even talk!  Paid staff in quarters, but if you don't tell them where to go - now what?

Lastly, they are SUPPOST to contact 60 Control for Mutual Aid so that the closer agency is sent.  Too many times they call *PD for *VAC - thus tying up ALL OF OUR ALS RESOURCES for what can be a non-emergency BLS call.

My point...EMS Staffing is a major issue when it comes to response times, but dispatch and communications is almost as vital too, and people forget that.  Solving the problems with EMS response times is a multi-layered solution. Getting paid and/or volunteer help is one thing, but if you dispatchers blow, you ain't got a fair shot.

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Yes blame the PD's. I can tell you right now that most PD's in this area or anywhere else for that matter would just assume have nothing to do with dispatching vollie EMS units. Perhaps you can attempt to initiate your own EMS reporting system for your area so you have only yourselves to blame when things don't go as planned.

Edited April 3, 2006 by 210

[ny10570 745]

Yes blame the PD's.  I can tell you right now that most PD's in this area or anywhere else for that matter would just assume have nothing to do with dispatching vollie EMS units.

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Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control.

[firemoose827 324]

Two PCR's to be filled out by one EMT is a little much for every time they go to the ER...We have driver's reports with times, mileage, vehicle problems, etc...I think the best way for documentation is the driver puts down his times on the driver report, and the EMT records his times on the PCR. . .my question is-is that following DOH/state protocols? Or should the EMT just record the "rig times" on the PCR, regardless of when the care was initiated...

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THANK YOU. THIS is what I meant 66alpha. I am not an idiot, I know you need to fill out a PCR for each call; but two for one call? The EMT fills one out yes, but the driver should fill out the drivers report, or run sheet, or call log, whatever your dept uses. I was Capt of a VAC for 3 years, I dont need a PCR lecture.

If the EMT is part of the ambulance than the rig times are recorded with notation that the EMT was on scene prior to. If it was a FR group that sent an EMT to ride on another ambulance than the EMT makes out the PCR and hands a copy to the ambulance agency for their records.

Thank you tanker42. I have never experienced the staggered dispatch and have only heard about it once from someone who recently moved to this area from a dept that used it. So its not worth persuing than? Oh well...back to the drawing board.

be safe and enjoy SPRING!!!!

Jonesy

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Yes blame the PD's. I can tell you right now that most PD's in this area or anywhere else for that matter would just assume have nothing to do with dispatching vollie EMS units. Perhaps you can attempt to initiate your own EMS reporting system for your area so you have only yourselves to blame when things don't go as planned.

Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control.

I can't see it being the PD's problem. Other things do and are going on when an EMS call comes in. I know for one, that the first thing that I do is dispatch the Patrol unit and MEDIC at the same time. Next is the either setting off the tones, calling another PD, or Calling 60 Control. I would rather have a Patrol unit or Medic on scene first, then to be waiting for the AMB.

We don't even give the location or nature over the pager. When they call in, we give that information. We have found that if they know what or where the call is, they pick and choose whether or not to go.

There is no non-emergency BLS call. When a call comes in and the person states that they need and AMB, we ask for the nature. How am I supposed to know if the person is telling the truth or not. That is why we send a Patrol Unit and the Medic. The Medic can determine if it is BLS and turn over care only when AN AMB gets on scene.

[calhobs 110]

Pick and choose calls????? Dispatcers who dont want to be inviolved with dispatching ems?????????? Tell you i would not want to live in that town. Maybe first of all the dispatchers who do not want to be botherd with ems should start looking for work somewhere else. second a ambulance corp who picjs and chooses the calls they go on should have there certs. taken away by the state. It is a sad day if this is happening. You have a job to do just do it. I have had jobs in my life when i didnt like to do certian things but you still do it that is why you get a pay check or you volly for. If this is happening it is a disgrace to the people we serve.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I think what you might have misunderstood me. What I was trying to say, is that when I first joined a VAC a long time ago, I was young and didn't know anything. When I got my first pager, the CAPT of the CORP told me how it worked. He said the tones would go off and the DUTY CREW CHIEF would then call the PD to get the location and nature. The PD dispatched the AMB and did not put that over the pager for the simple reason that they did not want "OFF-DUTY" personell showing up on calls in their personal vehicles.

As for me, I think that ALL EMS in WESTCHESTER COUNTY should be handled by 1 Central Station. I guess except for the City's. It works with the FD's, how come it can't work with the VAC'S?

[210 91]

I think what you might have misunderstood me. What I was trying to say, is that when I first joined a VAC a long time ago, I was young and didn't know anything. When I got my first pager, the CAPT of the CORP told me how it worked. He said the tones would go off and the DUTY CREW CHIEF would then call the PD to get the location and nature. The PD dispatched the AMB and did not put that over the pager for the simple reason that they did not want "OFF-DUTY" personell showing up on calls in their personal vehicles.

As for me, I think that ALL EMS in WESTCHESTER COUNTY should be handled by 1 Central Station. I guess except for the City's. It works with the FD's, how come it can't work with the VAC'S?

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I agree.

[210 91]

Pick and choose calls????? Dispatcers who dont want to be inviolved with dispatching ems?????????? Tell you i would not want to live in that town. Maybe first of all the dispatchers who do not want to be botherd with ems should start looking for work somewhere else. second a ambulance corp who picjs and chooses the calls they go on should have there certs. taken away by the state. It is a sad day if this is happening. You have a job to do just do it. I have had jobs in my life when i didnt like to do certian things but you still do it that is why you get a pay check or you volly for. If this is happening it is a disgrace to the people we serve.

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If dispatching EMS is part of your police duties then do it well and do it with pride especially if you knew that it was part of the job when you signed on. However, I dont believe that dispatching EMS should be the responsibility of a PD. I'm all about a centralized (non PD) dispatch.

I bolded the above sentence because I really dont think many police officers choose their line of work so they can dispatch vollie EMS. Please dont take this the wrong way. We all have callings. EMS is EMS PD is PD. Having the PD dispatch EMS maybe the most cost effective way to operate in certain areas but it seems to cause alot of hard feelings between PD an EMS around here.

10570 posted this earlier and I'm sure he or she is correct. Politics and power.

"Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control."

Edited April 3, 2006 by 210

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

If dispatching EMS is part of your police duties then do it well and do it with pride especially if you knew that it was part of the job when you signed on.  However, I dont believe that dispatching EMS should be the responsibility of a PD.  I'm all about a centralized (non PD) dispatch. 

I bolded the above sentence because I really dont think many police officers choose their line of work so they can dispatch vollie EMS.  Please dont take this the wrong way.  We all have callings.  EMS is EMS PD is PD.  Having the PD dispatch EMS maybe the most cost effective way to operate in certain areas but it seems to cause alot of hard feelings between PD an EMS around here. 

10570 posted this earlier and I'm sure he or she is correct.  Politics and power. 

"Maybe the officers of said dept don't want to be bothered with dipsatching, but those that make the decisions will fight tooth and nail to hold onto that control."

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I couldn't have said it any better. Sometimes it is crazy with PD stuff and then an AIDED case or MVA comes in. Now you have a MEDIC GOING TO THE SCENE and trying to DISPATCH a VAC. It gets crazy. Don't get me wrong, I came from EMS so I try and do the right thing all the time when I am dispatching. It does get annoying, but that is in my job description so I am going to do it.

[Remember585 815]

First off, I don't blame the PD for the ambulance not getting out, I am blaming them for many of the response time delays we have.

Additionally, what is the point of sending a Patrol Car if the Officer isn't trained?! Why not dispatch a garbage truck? Putting oxygen on someone isn't a solution, nor is standing there and getting thier pedigree info. Granted, if it is a cardiac arrest they can defib 'em - but more often then anything that's not the case.

If your crews need time to get to the building, why not dispatch them FIRST? Holy $hit, there's a concept. Even better, if you dispatch on a console that can transmit on multiple frequencies, why not joint dispatch everyone?!

I agree, too, that Cops don't take thier jobs so they can dispatch an FD or EMS. But if it is part of thier job then just like all other responsibilities they have, they should be done properly 100% of the time. I have nothing but respect for Law Enforcement - I just don't think that someone without thorough training should be taking 911 calls for help.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

First off, I don't blame the PD for the ambulance not getting out, I am blaming them for many of the response time delays we have.

Additionally, what is the point of sending a Patrol Car if the Officer isn't trained?!  Why not dispatch a garbage truck?  Putting oxygen on someone isn't a solution, nor is standing there and getting thier pedigree info.  Granted, if it is a cardiac arrest they can defib 'em - but more often then anything that's not the case.

If your crews need time to get to the building, why not dispatch them FIRST?  Holy $hit, there's a concept.  Even better, if you dispatch on a console that can transmit on multiple frequencies, why not joint dispatch everyone?!

I agree, too, that Cops don't take thier jobs so they can dispatch an FD or EMS.  But if it is part of thier job then just like all other responsibilities they have, they should be done properly 100% of the time.  I have nothing but respect for Law Enforcement - I just don't think that someone without thorough training should be taking 911 calls for help.

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That's right, it is the PD's fault that VOLUNTEERS can't get out. Ok so don't send a patrol car. There is going to be that time when you get there and the PT is going to be a combative INTOX, OD or Diabetic. Then, when you are getting you behind kicked, you are going to wish that you had a PO there.

O2 is not the solution, but it does help some aided people. I got an IDEA why don't you start your own DISPATCH COMPANY and you can handle everything.

You say you have respect for LE, but you just knocked LE for not being trained and being there just to get pedigree. Well, I have been on many ambulance calls when the AMB gets there all they care about is their CLIPBOARD.

You know what, I am not even going to entertain your IGNORANT rants. I hope that members or the PD where you live read this. I for sure just lost all respect for you and I don't even know you. GOOD JOB.

[Remember585 815]

That's right, it is the PD's fault that VOLUNTEERS can't get out. Ok so don't send a patrol car. There is going to be that time when you get there and the PT is going to be a combative INTOX, OD or Diabetic. Then, when you are getting you behind kicked, you are going to wish that you had a PO there.

O2 is not the solution, but it does help some aided people. I got an IDEA why don't you start your own DISPATCH COMPANY and you can handle everything.

You say you have respect for LE, but you just knocked LE for not being trained and being there just to get pedigree. Well, I have been on many ambulance calls when the AMB gets there all they care about is their CLIPBOARD.

You know what, I am not even going to entertain your IGNORANT rants. I hope that members or the PD where you live read this. I for sure just lost all respect for you and I don't even know you. GOOD JOB.

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Are you losing it man? I NEVER SAID that it is the fault of the PD that the Ambulance does not get out. That is a membership issue. I DID say that the PD is responsible for us taking longer to get on scene because on many occassions they DELAY DISPATCH in one way or another.

Nor, did I say that we do not want the PD there. I just said that it would be nice to dispatch those that have to drive across town to pick up the rig BEFORE sending the Patrol Car.

Start my own Company, if was was prosperous then that would be fine. But the fact remains that many (not all) PD's answering the 911 calls in westchester are not trained to handle the medical emergencies they receive. Do you disagree OneEye? I doubt it.

And I, too, see many many EMS people more concerned about thier clipboards then patient care. That isn't the point of my rant. And I DO HOPE my PD reads this, and every complaint that I and other members have made here and on "official" basis in the past few years, because they need to know that they are jeopardizing the well-being and health of our community.

GOOD JOB!

The subject was response times - and I voiced my opinion, which, apparently, hit a nerve of yours. If you can tell me that I am wrong and that SOME POLICE DEPARTMENTS are awful at dispatching, then I would love to hear how I am wrong.

I don't know you, or what PD you work for. But I am referring to the ones I have PERSONAL experience with.

Oh, and if you lose respect for me that's a shame, I am sure I will lose sleep over it tonight.