FAST, Or Manpower Fast?

[x635 4,066]

OK, so I know we've had a bazillion discussions on FAST teams on this forum, and have beaten each and every topic to death. But, I've been reading as well as studying events in the "real world", and I just want to present my thoughts on the issue.

It seems many departments are set on the "FAST" concept. Special tools and extraneous gadgets, training, FAST drills, etc. But, realistically, what's going to happen if a FAST team is ever needed? How many times when a firefighter goes down, are they actually entrapped enough to warrant all the equipment that is standard for a FAST team?

Through all my observations and training, I've come to the conclusion that if it ever comes time for a firefighter to be rescued, it's going to be a cluster, no matter what. Emotions are going to come into play, scenewide. Lugging in all the FAST team equipment will tire the manpower from energy needed to effect the rescue. Playing with all the gadgets will extend the time it takes to get the firefighter out. What happend to, and what's wrong with, good-old fashioned dragging a firefighter out???

I feel what's really important, more then any FAST team or their associated gadgets, is strong, healthy, in-shape firefighters, and plenty of them. And those numerous firefighters assigned to firefighter rescue standby, should be strong in stretching a line, throwing a ladder, and search and rescue. Because it's the bread and butter basic skills that get this job done and done well. FAST is a critically important skill, but are some getting so involved with the FAST concept, they are neglecting their core skills? FAST shouldn't be a segragated concept, each and every firefighter should be able to perform it. Also, physical fitness of the rescuer will go a LONG way in rescuing a down firefighter.

FAST team training and equipment is great to have, practice, and use. But let's not lose focus of what's core. Your trucks and your equipment are not going to save someone, you are. I strongly feel plentiful,competent, experienced and fit manpower is the most important tool a FAST team can ever carry.

Do one thing and do it well.

[Jason762 2]

OK, so I am going to agree with you on some points but disagree on others. First off I agree that in shape healthy FF's are key for not just FAST but any firefighting op's. Also I agree that most real life FAST op's turn into a cluster, this is sad but true. Also yes the trucks and equip. won't save a life but plentiful, competant, FF's might.

With that said I disagree with not haveing any "gadgets". Some of these "gadgets" such as a pre-rigged hauling system, stokes basket, SCBA changeover/replenshing unit, will save time and possibly assist in saving a life. If FF's are trained in the proper use of this equipment, it can be very helpful. Also proactive FAST op's such as cutting off steel security bars, opening up means of egress, and throwing ladders early can also save a life. As for dragging a FF out, it is easier said than done. I'm sure you have done it in training as have I but that is normally under ideal conditions. Try it in high heat, structural collapse, or below grade situations. Talk to some guys that have performed these op's in real life, it doesn't go well. The trapped FF is in the position he's in because things are going very badly, you can't just waltz in, pick him up, and off you go.

You make some good points, if we continue to train, critique past incidents and improve equipment maybe we can improve our chances of saving one of our own.

[ny10570 745]

The vast majority of fast incidents are the result of confussion and panic. A ff's original means of egress is either compromoissed or the ff loses their way. While I have only taken one FAST class, the class, and almost everything I have read emphasises a quick, mobile, and efficient start to FAST operations. This is mainly because of the nature of the majority of fast operations. The downed ff is most often not entrapped; only lost. All of the tools, stokes basket, rigging and other equipment stagged is for the FUBAR cases. The first two in usually carry a hook, irons, search rope, and air. You stabalize the situation and await the extra equipment you need or you begin egress. In this form FAST is potentially very effective when needed. The key to FAST is just that...being FAST. Be smooth, methodical, and get your hands on the victim quickly. PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A KNOCK, but seeing as you went through probie school under teh watchful eye of ALS, I would have thought you would have a different view of FAST ops.

[firemoose827 324]

The FAST I am on must have really good training from what I have read in your post. The "Gadgets" you mentioned are, like mentioned prior, essential to a rescue. What gets me though is how you say it will tire the men out just by dragging the stuff to the scene. Our team trains very hard, and we work well with each other, and there is no "Leader". The first on scene is Team Leader and stays with the IC. If something happens a team of 2 ff's from FAST enter and do a quick assesment; if they can simply grab and drag, they do. If the ff is trapped they radio the situation out and the remaining two FAST members grab what is needed to effect the rescue and enter to assist. The team leader maintains the outside doorman position to monitor and track the teams progress.

I can go on and on citing our teams SOP's, but I guess what I am trying to say as nicely as I can is; not all FAST are as bad as you think they are. We have done training evolutions in acquired houses and "Rescued" a ff in as little as a minute. We also physically train as well, with cardio and weight programs, and yes even a diet !! Mental training is required as well, with evolutions including ff's acting like upset brothers, yelling and running around and trying to enter the house and help us, and get in our way. We try to simulate every possible emotion. WAIT!!! I know some of you are probably chomping to get at me and say "Training is one thing but try it in the real world." Thats why we only allow experienced, trained ff's on the team. At least ffI level for 5 years, with haz-mat, rescue training, EMS training with at least CPR although we encourage EMT. Experienced ff's know that loosing your calm will not help anyone.

A few things I forgot to mention above; the initial entry team carries a rope bag for a lifeline, and basic tools; irons, pry-bars, hooks, whatever their preference. Maybe a water can. Our initial arrival consists of checking in with IC and Team Leader, than doing a 360 deg walk to assess hazards, place ladders, remove clothes lines, mark inground pools, ect.

I'm proud of our FAST, and think we provide more than just "Manpower". I respect your opinion, but are you actually on a FAST? If so where? I think that the FAST concept is still new and going through growing pains, but like everything else will eventually become more fine tuned.

Im sorry I rambled, and may have even strayed a little off topic, but I have been reading the FAST posts a lot and not responding. Guess I BLEVE'd!!!!

I hope noone ever needs FAST. Stay safe.

Jonesy

[Monty 35]

I'm sure many who have taken the FAST training or are well read on the topic - proably most people here, are aware of the Phoenix On Deck concept. This makes a lot of sense to me.

Unfortunately, here in the lower hudson area, I don't believe it is currently practical. Given many other discussions about trainging / fitness standards etc and the tradition of the fire service. Subsequently, given this background I don't see us getting everyone to this level. The FAST concept works well, it provides dedicated capable manpower and appropriate tools. I guess one point from my FAST training that I think should be kept in mind more is that you should have another FAST team on site before putting one to work. Frequently, it's put the team to work then dispatch the next team ....