New Tarrytown Firehouses

[FD7807 59]

Some good news coming out of Tarrytown, groundbreakings were held for both Washington Engine and COnsolidated Engine's new 1 bay firehouses.

[firecapt32 282]

hard to believe that they can build two cheaper then one!!

[FD7807 59]

if it seems too good to be true it probably is

[Guest]

good for them, cant wait to see pics of the final building's.

[Guest]

Where is the new firehouse going to be located?

[FD7807 59]

THe site for Washington Engine is adjacent to 155 White Plains Road on the East Side of the property. THe property for COnsolidated in on the same site where their temporary quarters is located on Meadow Street

[firecapt32 282]

where will they put 77 while the new station is being built?? are they planning for any future expansion for either one of the stations. Tarrytown already has a trailer with no home as well as a converted truck with extra things parked next to riverside hose.

[fireboy 6]

Sounds cool will the house be bigger than the old ones or smaller.

[wmurpht 1]

Sounds cool will the house be bigger than the old ones or smaller.

←

both firehouses should be about 6200 sq. ft. , which is about 2.5 times larger than our current houses (current 78 and torn down 77 house). although my new truck (TL78) is almost twice as large as our old ENG78.

Edited March 25, 2006 by wmurpht

[spin_the_wheel 460]

Any new info on the 2 houses is this still a go.......

[FD7807 59]

This is 2006 and nothing gets done quickly. Believe it or not there are people protesting that Engine 77's firehouse will be too CLOSE to their properties and homes. These protestors are citing public safety issues such as firetrucks shouldn't be going down their tight little streets and children play in the streets and the firetrucks and the volunteers who race to staff those trucks will conflict with that. Again I am not making this up there are actually people who complain about having a firehouse too close to their home. Amazing isn't it ?

[unklecletus 0]

The people that are complaining about the location of eng 77 fire house need to be reminded that the temp quarters has been there for 6 years with out a problem.

[dadbo46 50]

This is 2006 and nothing gets done quickly. Believe it or not there are people protesting that Engine 77's firehouse will be too CLOSE to their properties and homes. These protestors are citing public safety issues such as firetrucks shouldn't be going down their tight little streets and children play in the streets and the firetrucks and the volunteers who race to staff those trucks will conflict with that. Again I am not making this up there are actually people who complain about having a firehouse too close to their home. Amazing isn't it ?

←

No....that is a legitimate concern for the neigborhood. Traffic safety, noise, pollution (of any kind other than the norm) are real concerns of residents.

Thought should be given to placing firehouses on main roads or commercial areas. An environmental impact statement (EIS) should flush allof these issues out.

BTW - I still can't believe that it's cheaper to build and maintain 2 firehouses than it is to build one. Me thinx politics is part of the process.

[Guest]

firecapt32 has made a lot of good points and raised some good questions.

No one has answers??

[DaveTFD 0]

lfdR1,

I have a few answers for firecapt32 and all you guys,

"where will they put 77 while the new station is being built?? are they planning for any future expansion for either one of the stations. Tarrytown already has a trailer with no home as well as a converted truck with extra things parked next to riverside hose."

77's aparatus will most likely remain where it is when the building is being constructed, but the trailor for meetings will be moved and we will use riverside hose for meetings (but thats not definate). are we planning for future expansion? yes, 77 will remain an engine company so the truck does not get much wider, and the building is made with extra space in the engine room to make room for a possibly longer truck in the future, as well as extra height.

Yes Tarrytown has a trailor and as disgusting as it seems to some people, we still take pride in it and call it home for the time being. also i cant really comment on utility truck 61 because i do not know what the plans for it are.

neighbors are actually protesting the site on medow street for consolidated engine. i do not agree with their concern for their children being hit by a fire truck, but i respect it because anything is possible. TL78 had a very nice ground breaking ceremony on 119 and then all men and aparatus went down the hill to medow street for E-77's ground breaking ceremony and were met by protestors screaming in our faces and personally attacking our chief. needless to say, chief scogna is a better man than i am because i would have yelled back at them.

why are 2 fire houses cheaper than 1?

- the site on 119 where TL-78 is being placed is on a parking lot. under the parking lot is solid rock. The money it would take for crews to dig up all that rock is huge.

- TL-78 obviosly needs a higher ceiling for their ladder and bucket to fit in, E-77 does not need this ceiling space and you cant have 2 different ceiling heights. it is more expensive for the higher ceiling

- when TL-78 and E-77 were going over living together in the 2 bay house, both companies aggreed that it would be better if we had a dividing wall down the middle. (people saying that is because we do not get along with TL-78 members is completly BS) the wall in the middle would be a baring wall and that costs more money

- the property donated to the village in actuality is not that big when you consider the size of a 2 bay fire house and parking for the members. if we were to have the 2 bay house we would have to find more land somewhere.

- there is no price on a life. a fire in the south end of the village breaks out right now and it will take me 43 seconds to get into my aparatus (yes i timed it) moving E-77 to 119 it will take me 3 minutes and 46 seconds (again yes i timed it). these times are just for me, not for the driver who operates the pump. by the time 911 is called, the fire has already been moving for about 5 minutes. 911 transfers to county control, county control transfers to tarrytown police, tarrytown police page out for the fire department. it is an educated guess that 15 minutes will pass from the time the fire starts to the time the first engine is on scene. that is a long long time if someone is stuck on the fire floor with no way out except jumping. leaving the engine where it is now, that response time will be under 8 minutes and you can take that to the bank.

i hope i answered some questions for you guys, feel free to keep asking more.

thanks to everybody who gave some support in the forums

[GFD70 4]

I'm not looking to criticize you or anyone else but I have to disagree with a couple of things

TL-78 obviosly needs a higher ceiling for their ladder and bucket to fit in, E-77 does not need this ceiling space and you cant have 2 different ceiling heights. it is more expensive for the higher ceiling

Building one large apparatus bay would allow for enough room for the tower ladder as well as plenty of room for an engine. This would also provide space for the future if larger apparatus are purchased down the road. In Greenville, the apparatus bay is pretty much one big room with 4 bays. The ceiling height allows for both a ladder and engine to fit with plenty of extra space.

when TL-78 and E-77 were going over living together in the 2 bay house, both companies aggreed that it would be better if we had a dividing wall down the middle.

I have to disagree with each company having their own section. Remember, you guys are part of the same department regardless of what company you are in.

[Guest]

Hey guys good luck with your new company quarters.

[firecapt32 282]

what about the cost of heating 2 seperate stations, electricity for each house air conditioning each station. expansion isnt just a bigger fire truck. what about when the south end needs an ambulance or a police sub station.

Im not doubting you on you response times im sure you timed them correctly. engines and ladders go togeather like peanut butter and jelly they are good seperate but better togeather. I wil say the the Chief did handle himself in a very professional manner. I would nt expect anything different. the citizens were concerned about safety they didnt think temp housing was going to be perment.

did the village ever loook into a scalled down 2 bay?? there stillare a lot of unanswered questions.

77 deserves a new station no one is arguing that point but every one must think of the good of the village.

has any one done any recuiting along white plains road?? looking for new firefighters that do lilve closer??

[DaveTFD 0]

what about the cost of heating 2 seperate stations, electricity for each house  air conditioning each station.  expansion isnt just a bigger fire truck. what about when the south end needs an ambulance or a police sub station.

Im not doubting you on you response times im sure you timed them correctly. engines and ladders go togeather like peanut butter and jelly they are good seperate but better togeather. I wil say the  the Chief did handle himself in a very professional manner. I would nt expect anything different. the citizens were concerned about safety they didnt think temp housing was going to be perment.

did the village ever loook into a scalled down 2 bay?? there stillare a lot of  unanswered questions.

77 deserves a new station no one is arguing that point but every one must think of the good of the village.

has any one done any recuiting along white  plains road?? looking for new firefighters that do lilve closer??

←

the village already pays for heating, electricity, etc. for all fire houses in the village. thats not even been brought up because i assume people dont mind that a small portion of their tax dollars goes to these things when this is a volunteer department. I dont have numbers for you on how much it costs to heat our temporary fire house and the hut where the truck is, but if u really want i will try to find out.

tarrytown ambulance is not part of the village technically, they are a separate agency entirely with no village funding.

no answer for you about a police substation. sorry.

the old village board looked into how to cut down the 2bay firehouse on 119. it was explained in a board meeting my sean mccarthy who is the architect. 2 bay fire houses need a long hall way close to the middle, this hallway needs to be reinforced with baring walls (which makes it more expensive). also we would have 1 meeting room for E-77, 1 meeting room for TL-78, 2 separate kitchens, 4 bathrooms in total (1 mens on the first floor and second floor, 1 womans on the first and second floor). that is the bare minimum that sean mccarthy said we need to have according to the state.

i am not mad at the neighbors when they say they do not want their child to be hit by a fire truck. i am sure it is a legitament concern. the thing i get mad at is when the neighbors tell my company we are "a bunch of drunks" and other personal attacks like that. its just unneccisary

membership has expanded. tarrytown now takes members from sleepy hollow, elmsford, and irvington. we will not go door to door on white plains road and ask people to join, but they are all aware this is a volunteer department that needs members because they all get the pamphlet every year.

if you think there are "still a lot of unanswered questions" ask them. ime not shy on the subject and i know from posts with you in the past, you arent either. if i dont know the answer to 1 of your questions, i will find some1 who does and have them respond to you.

[DaveTFD 0]

I'm not looking to criticize you or anyone else but I have to disagree with a couple of things

Building one large apparatus bay would allow for enough room  for the tower ladder as well as plenty of room for an engine. This would also provide space for the future if larger apparatus are purchased down the road. In Greenville, the apparatus bay is pretty much one big room with 4 bays. The ceiling height allows for both a ladder and engine to fit with plenty of extra space.

I have to disagree with each company having their own section. Remember, you guys are part of the same department regardless of what company you are in.

←

i dont debate that high ceilings are great to fit both engines and ladder trucks, the point i was making was that it costs more to make the ceiling high while still having a second floor.

i respect your opinion about companies sharing. i hate to beat a dead horse here, but 1 of the 2 main factors of 77 being put where it is, is the response time issue for its membership. 77 is placed on that side of 119 for a reason, its a strategical placement for that engine.

believe me, 77 does not hate TL-78! thats all propaganda started by the neighbors who protest the fire house. the officers and members of both companies get along very nicely with eachother. its not about that. its about 1. the cheaper cost of building 2 buildings instead of 1 (i dident make that up, research and studies show that the savings is 770,000. check out my last post for the reasons why given to us by the architect) and 2. like i said before, 77 is strategically placed on that side of 119 to get quick access to the thruway, the south end, and the glenville protection district.

i dont feel like you are critisizing me or my company or the chiefs in my department or the village of tarrytown, so feel free to ask questions. your opinion is yours and i wont try to bend it till it matches mine. however i will give you the facts you are looking for when you ask questions.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I hate to say it, but you know when the protest of the 77 house will stop? When one of the neighbor's houses goes up in the middle of the night and 77 is right thier first. Then they will be prasing that the firehouse was there. People are so synical. Unfortunately I don't know the area but it sound like the same type of area where my firehouse is located. Doesn't matter where the house is, kids shouldn't be playing in the streets.

Engine 77 & TL 78 good luck with the new buildings.

Edited April 20, 2006 by IzzyEng4

[FD7807 59]

One point that i think has been missed in all of this is that the village board refueses to draw a line in the sand and say that enough is enough. As is typical with most political groups they drag this thing out and let everyone have their say. Now that is not a bad thing if it is done in a timely manner however this has been going on for 5 years now. I have been part of this process from the beginning and i cannot tell you how many times i have been told that a shovel will be in the ground in a month to 6 weeks. 5 years later we are argueably no closer. WHen it seemed that the 2 Bay was going up and not to be argued, the Republicans lost and it then went to 2 seperate 1 bay houses. THen as soon as it looked like Eng 77 would be back on their original lot, they The village let the neighbors of lower SHeldon beat them down until it was moved to upper sheldon/meadow street. Now they are letting the residents of Upper SHeldon/Stephens Driver, Meadow Street sound off and my point is that the Village has got to say enough is enough we are building it and that is that. Everyone is afraid to ruffle some feathers nowadays and no matter what decision is reached some people will like it and others will not but It is unfair to have 1/3 of your department apparatus in temp. quarters. THat is terrible. ANd to follow up on an earlier reply,no resident (child or otherwise) has been hit in tarrytown. We are residents too and take pride and care when responding on our streets because the people around us are our friends and family too. Acceidents can happen in commercial areas as well so holding up the building of essential fire quarters on this issue to me is a front for "we just do not want the noise and traffic in our neighborhood but will use the children as a scare tactic to get our way" I know my view is slightly controversial but it is what it is and i ahve been on the inside for years now and it is rather frustrating to be a part of something that is constantly being stalled

[firecapt32 282]

Heres an idea --if the village owns the land at meadow street and the land is too hard to build on on white plains road, why not concider makinig the 2 bay on meadow street. hmmmm am i being logical or stupid. main street fire house could be dupliciated. 2 meeting rooms 2 recational rooms, one common kitchen . been working pretty well there for years.

I will comment on the "bunch of drunks" comment. it was out of line thats for sure.. please do not take the next comment personally it is not intended to get any one pissed off but,

when you have a public building and it is public built with public funds taxpayer money, and there is a "bar" or "soda machine"!!! that despinses anything stronger then soda, there are bound to be some one watching and comments made.

The age to join is 18 the drinking age is 21 the "soda machine" dosent know the difference. if a underage firefighter has a key to the station and the machine is avaiable to them. every one is suspect. again please do not take this as anything more then my comment.

[FD7807 59]

If I am not mistaken the"bunch of drunks' comment eminated from someone who had a personal ax to grind with specific members. I would take it with a grain of salt as it does not reflect on Eng 77 as a company or on the officers that they put forth to the public. That "neighbor" made a fool of herself and does not have a clue the time and effort we put into what we do.

[DaveTFD 0]

Heres an idea --if the village owns the land at meadow street and the land is too hard to build on on white plains road, why not concider makinig the 2 bay on meadow street. hmmmm am i being logical or stupid. main street fire  house could be dupliciated. 2 meeting rooms 2 recational rooms, one common kitchen . been working pretty well there for years.

I will comment on the "bunch of drunks" comment. it was out of line  thats for sure.. please do not take the next comment personally it is not intended  to get any one  pissed off but,

when you have a public building and it is public built with public funds taxpayer money, and there is a "bar" or "soda machine"!!! that despinses anything stronger then soda, there are bound to be some one watching and comments made.

The age to join is 18 the drinking age is 21 the "soda machine" dosent know the difference. if a underage firefighter  has a key to the station and the machine is avaiable to them. every one is suspect. again please do  not take this as anything more then my comment.

←

the space on medow street where consolidated quarters are planned to be is too small for a 2 bay. if we take anymore room then it will be cutting into the day care centers playground and then the entire department looks like scum for taking away childrens playgrounds.

i really dont think the comment about being "a bunch of drunks" came from my company's soda machine whether it only has soda or not. FD7807 is right, it came from 1 specific neighbor with a problem with 2 or 3 of our guys. i wish i could take it with a grain of salt but i cant stand these people when they say "its not personal" and then turn around and tell me we are a bunch of drunks. isent that making it personal?

[FD7807 59]

Dave it goes back to what I said a few posts ago: Their stance is BS because one minute you guys area bunch of drunks, then the next the real issue is about child safety, then the next minute it is about how those streets in Pennybridge are too small to support fire engine traffic. It boils down to they do not want their quiet little area disturbed by construction and a firehouse. Notice no one at the Mascia Day Care Center complained. Also anyone who has ever gotten a home owners insurance policy was asked how close is the nearest fire station. Insurance companies love fire stations near your homes for obvious reasons. This issue is not about children or drunks it is about people who have a lot of money and a lot to say wanting to exercize their constitutional rights to be heard. It is the village's job to say we are going forward because it is for the good of the majority and stop letting the minority have its say over and over again.

[firecapt32 282]

The comment came froma spicific neighbor, with a spicific insight true or not, valid or not, the comment was in a public forum and has to be addressed. Im done on that subject.

Both of you are righ in the fact that the Board has failed, it should have made a stand and stuck to it. what ever the plan was one bay two bay the Board seems weak on the ssueses and Tarrytown has important thing coming in the future.. one of which is south end development. Im just looking to the future exapnsion of the village and the future exapnsion of the department.

Willthe new Stations be build with an eye onthe furure?? AS we can plainly see apparatus are getting bigger and bigger. The south end is develpoing, more and more people are living and building there. We need to keep our Firefighters traind and looking foward.

Again keeping in the sprit of comiunication and lively debates, this is a great way of getting other ideas and understanding the feelings of other firefighters.

[DaveTFD 0]

when you say "looking toward the future" what exactly do you mean other than what i have posted before in the forum. trucks will get bigger but really only in the sense that they get longer. fire aparatus have to be DOT complyant (i did not spell that right) and i believe both washington engine's (now TL-78) building and E-77's building will be built with extra space behind the engine or tower ladder to accomidate a longer aparatus in the future. people cant use that as an excuse not to build a fire house when that is only a matter of a few feet behind where the aparatus sits.

i happend to see one of these neighbors today and she said something very funny to me "that new tower ladder cant even fit on the streets in this village and that company only has 5 guys in it". this isent the first time i heard something like this about TL-78's membership and the last time i did i went to a village board meeting and told them how wrong they were. FD7807, correct me if i am wrong but TL-78 has 1 of the biggest memberships in the department right? also they have a ton of new guys who they are just training now. this just proves how ignorant people really are and they try to pass off their oppinions and heresay as facts.

with this whole issue, we will see what happens. last i heard the board is going to be putting it to a vote with the excusion of bobby hoyt and tom basher because they are department members. hopefully all goes in favor of the fire department and E-77 and TL-78 both have new homes.

[FD7807 59]

Dave I commend you on correcting those who comment on the size and activity level of our members. However you and I both know how she got that idea. It is ancient history now and believe me I am very much over it but that notion getting to the public was the fault of members of our own department. That said, my answer to anyone who questions what we can do as a company just look no further then our training records. They speak for themselves. Also ask her when the last time it is she drove that truck because it can go down (or up) any street in this town that an aerial ladder should go (keeping in mind that cobb lane and the side streets off East SUnnyside are ground ladder ops).

[firecapt32 282]

Dave you seem like a very intelligent person and are up to date with your comments but if the board is going to vote and are excluding those with fd connections --not many of them will not be voting-- mary's husband and children are TFD--Toms wife I believe belongs to TFD and Chrise' s brother is TFD so I dont think it will be a even vote do you?

next- training is good ---certified training is better. find out how many of your firefighters meet firefighter 1 or firefighter 2 standards- Thats what New York state is mandating. how many of them have physicals-- how many are fit tested. how many recieved their osha training last yr.

How many have had EVOC What does the State print our say. What about being NIMS complience. If you dont think its important go for a grant and see. Look at other department and see what they are doing.

How antiquated are the by-laws when were they last updated

next- lad 78 is a big piece of firefighting equipment- to set it up porperly it takes a space of 18 feet from the tip of one outrigger to the tip of the other. I know you can short jack it but it is not recmended.

I truly hope you get what you want and need but the public needs to be assured and public education is imoprtant.

enough for now I will be away for a few days going to Indianapolis for the Fire Instructors confrence. Chat with you guys when i get back.