NYC EMT ARRESTED for Badge Possession

[IzzyEng4 427]

I found this on 1strespondernews.com

By RAFAEL CASTELLANOS Story Number is 031206105

Correspondent

1st Responder Network

NEW YORK, NY - The Central Park Medical Unit would like to bring the following information to your attention as it pertains to those EMT's and Paramedics who carry shields. EMT and Paramedic shields have been around for many decades. They are nothing new and have been worn for years and years. It serves a valid public policy purpose when victims need to identify emergency personnel either on or off duty. Most of us have your own personal EMT shield with our NYS EMT #, certification level and jurisdiction in which we certified.

An EMT from Central Park Medical Unit was arrested for the mere possession of a shield.

Most NYS EMT's and Paramedics carry a shield and personally I believe it is my right to do so too. It is a visual identification and indicates our justification for being at emergency scenes just as do Police Shields etc.... It also indicates a level of authority for the general public to turn to in a crisis / emergency situation.

The attached link to a PDF File was in response to the arrest and directed to the DOH Bureau of EMS by the attorney representing the Central Park Medical Unit. If you continue to carry a shield you may open yourself up to the same scrutiny and face similar proceedings.

While I hope this EMT will be exonerated on all the unsubstantiated and false charges, it may be some time before the DOH makes a further policy statement in response to this event and the charges against our EMT if found sound could cost the very certification this shield represented.

From this incident, it is apparent that carrying, wearing or presenting your EMT shield could bring on serious consequences. We urge you individually and part of your private hospital, volly or first responder unit to contact your local NY State Representatives and give them your opinion on this serious matter. It has been suggested that State Assemblyman Phil Ramos should be contacted with your opinions on this matter as he is closely tied with EMS in NYS. He can be reached at ramosp@assembly.state.ny.us .

The link to the Attorney letter with specific details regarding this matter can be viewed at:

http://www.cpmu.com/EMTShields.pdf

We would like to thank you, our friends at BRAVO, CCNY-VES and the New York State Volunteer Ambulance and Rescue Association for your kind assistance and support in this matter.

[Guest]

I think the point was that if you arrest people for complete BS then you will deter volunteering. This was entirely inappropriate, if there actually is a legal issue then the guy should have gotten a warning and he could then discuss it with his superiors.

Police+Fire+EMS=Emergency Service Providers. Why sould EMS be the only ones without a badge? Do firefighters NEED a badge to do their jobs either? Do police?

This is completely bogus.

[ex-commish 490]

This is why you never carry a shield without a photo ID card. A badge is meaningless without ID. I have been an EMT for about 10 years and never knew such ems badges existed. MY FD issues each member a department badge and photo ID card and the newer ID cards will now have expiration dates on them for security reasons.

I could see if this person abused his badge or attemtped to do something illegal with it but according to the letter he did nothing wrong other than possessing what he was entitled to possess. This will be an interesting case.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[ltjay157 10]

I don't know about you guys, but my firefighters badge says what ageny I'm with, my rank, and state. The badge you're talking about just says you're an EMT with a number. There was no agency name on the badge. The reason for a badge is a symbol of authority. What was he gonna do in an emergency at the courthouse? Whip out the badge and say "I'm an EMT so do as i say"? If you're a volunteer, what's the purpose of carrying a badge when you're not in uniform? I can see if you are working a shift at the ambulance and you have it on you're uniform for identification purposes. With people out there impersonating police officers, you need to use common sense. The only people I know that carry a badge when off duty are police officers. That's just my opinion.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

What the article didn't say is why the EMT/Medic was stopped in the first place. I am sure that is was not just for the fact that he/she had a shield. Maybe the person was trying to use the shield to get out of something more serious and the Officer gave him/her a break.

I never understood why when an EMS person is not working, they needed a shield. It makes no sense. You don't need one off duty, I'm sorry, but you don't. So you stop at an accident while you are off duty and tell the Officers that you are an EMT/Medic, whatever, stick around to give your name, you know you will anyway.

I like to think that when someone carries a shield, they should also be carrying a gun. That is a rule of thumb that was taught in the Police Academy. You should have your ID with you at all times, but, if you are going to carry a gun, you HAVE to have your shield. And, you should not carry your shield if you are not going to carry your GUN.

Do EMT's/Medics carry guns now? I think more facts of the story should come out. What was the Probable cause for the stop? What are the charges now?

I was involved in both Paid and Volunteer EMS for a long time and still am and never carried a badge. Had my state card and that was good enough. Had my name, state # and my EXP date. Enough said.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

So after reading the petition, the EMT was arrested for walking into A FEDERAL COURT HOUSE and having the badge in his briefcase. I think it said that he was a Volunteer. With the way the world is now, maybe they should have detained him and taken the shield and slapped him on the wrist. But you know what, they did what they had to do. ANYONE can get one of those badges, walk into the Courthouse and BLOW away a judge or someone else. I stand by my point.

DO AWAY WITH ALL BADGES THAT DO NOT PERTAIN TO FEDERAL, STATE, CITY or LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. Maybe PAID FD CAN keep theirs, not sure yet.

[Guest]

He was not trying to use his badge to enter the court house. It was discovered during the standard security screening procedures. He didn't try to foil security nor present his badge. He merely was in possesion of it and it was discovered during his search.

I see nothing wrong with having an EMT badge, but you should have your certifications with you. Just my thought.

Quote (from page 1, paragraph 2 of the pdf):

"The EMT was entering a Federal Courthouse when-in accordance with standard security procedures at the Courthouse-Federal Agents screened his briefcase and person. During the screening, Federal Agents noticed a shiled in the volunteer's briefcase and inquired about it. The volunteer was not on duty at the time of the arrest, nor was he displaying his shield. When asked the volunteer explained that he was a New York State EMT. The Federal Agents contact the NYPD, and the volunteer was placed under arrest."

I based my previous statments on the facts presented in this letter, obviously there is a possible bias, but I believe that the essential facts are correct.

I also believe that the statement that this will deter volunteering had nothing to do with the badge but this seemingly asinine arrest.

Edited March 14, 2006 by JaredHG

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

So the badge was discovered in a briefcase, why was it there and not in his wallet? He should have just left it at home. I know what was happening, if someone got hurt or sick, he was going to be like SUPERMAN and Run into a phone booth and come out with it around his neck. Not like the Courthouse can't deal an issue.

Everyone talks about this detering someone from Volunteering. Is that why one Volunteers, to get a badge? In my experiece, kids like to get them becasue they think that it will get them out of tickets for driving like assh***s.

They just don't make any sense to me. Can someone come up with a VALID point on why someone that is not involved in LAW ENFROCEMENT or maybe even PROFFESSIONAL FD has to have a shield. And don't tell me to identify ones self while OFF DUTY, BUFFING A SCENE.

[Guest]

Well, this is exactly why i never bothered to get my own personal badage. It it sounds rather odd that they arrested this guy and i really dont think its right, but alot of those badges - which of course NYS doesnt even really regulate - look like NYC police or NYC Detective badages. Maybe it had somthing to do with the badge itself and not the fact that he was carrying one?

[Guest]

So the badge was discovered in a briefcase, why was it there and not in his wallet? He should have just left it at home. I know what was happening, if someone got hurt or sick, he was going to be like SUPERMAN and  Run into a phone booth and come out with it around his neck. Not like the Courthouse can't deal an issue.

Everyone talks about this detering someone from Volunteering. Is that why one Volunteers, to get a badge? In my experiece, kids like to get them becasue they think that it will get them out of tickets for driving like assh***s.

They just don't make any sense to me. Can someone come up with a VALID point on why someone that is not involved in LAW ENFROCEMENT or maybe even PROFFESSIONAL FD has to have a shield. And don't tell me to identify ones self while OFF DUTY, BUFFING A SCENE.

←

Once again being arested for BS not not having a badge is what will deter volunteering.

The reason to have a badge would be for the same reason off-duty FFs (paid and volly) have badges. If there is a fire will a FF pull out his badge and fight the fire? I think there may even be a stronger argument for off-duty EMTs to have a badge (in addition to their other credentials) then for off-duty FFs. However I will concede that there is little actual reason in EITHER case for a badge, but perhaps the same can be said about off duty PD. I'm sure that all police officers when they carry their gun have some sort of photo ID with them, becayse a badge just won't cut it; anyone can buy one of those.

[Guest]

I see no reason why Paid Fire, Only Law enforcement shouls have them.

←

That's fine with me, but for all intents and purposes badges are pointless; you need a photo ID that has security measures built in (hologram, etc) to ID yourself.

Edited March 14, 2006 by JaredHG

[Cos Cob 215 7]

I have been into serveral Federal buildings under the control of a U.S. Marshal, Marshal's deputies, and CSOs (Court Security Officers). The deputy I was with TOLD ME to present my badge at the security checkpoint along with my embossed ID card and drivers licence. Those with firearms must check them at the security checkpoint, only the Marshal and his deputies are supposed to carry in the courthouse. I have found that the personnel in these facilities use a great deal of caution and remain professional throughout. I have also seen first-hand what they seize from people and it runs the spectrum from small knives to a sawed-off shotgun. I am wondering if there is more to this story. I do think that anyone carrying a badge should be ready to act should an emergency arise and that it is shameful that people only carry a badge for ...

Christian Andersen

[smwells 7]

I think something is missing from this article.. I have been in Federal office buildings in NYC numerous times, carrying my NYS EMT badge in my wallet, without incident.

Was the badge loose in the briefcase? was it in his wallet in the briefcase? Did he show his EMT card to support his status?

Based upon the letter, the EMT followed the required screening processes..

I work in lower manhattan, on 9/11 I was told to display my badge on my street clothes to ensure I was not confused with the numerous bystanders also trying to help.

I have had my badge since I became an EMT in 1993 (actually purchased from a PD supply shop near the NYPD academy), and have never had any incident with NYPD or any other agency. All of them accepted the badge as proof of my EMT status.

I think some addtional information is needed to get a complete picture of this incident.

[Eagle24 2]

There are reasons both for and against having an EMT badge. Fact is, none the reasons are concrete enough to say whether you really need one or not.

My opinion-I got a badge through my organization, along with a photo ID with my name and position in the organization. I tend to keep those two things, along with my EMT cert. card on me, sometimes when off-duty. I won't say I NEVER leave the house without it, but the way I see it-it can't hurt to have it on you if you happen to witness a serious MVA or something. I'm not going to just pullover and toss it over my neck and start ordering people to do stuff---but if a family happened to be in that car, and you started to try and help one of the kids, the parent might flip out and say what are you doing to my child...a EMT card may look nice, but the histerical mother isn't going to care that your name is on some nice laminated card, a badge is more known by the public-in that case it might help establish trust.

99% of the time-you don't need it off duty...at all...but I think any experienced EMT reading this post knows that unexpected things DEFINATELY happen in EMS. I just look at the badge as another tool in my EMT kit.

I'm sure there are close-minded people in here who will never change their minds about EMT's not needing badges-this is just my view, I could be wrong.

But why arrest someone over having one?

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

Once again being arested for BS not not having a badge is what will deter volunteering.

The reason to have a badge would be for the same reason off-duty FFs (paid and volly) have badges. If there is a fire will a FF pull out his badge and fight the fire? I think there may even be a stronger argument for off-duty EMTs to have a badge (in addition to their other credentials) then for off-duty FFs. However I will concede that there is little actual reason in EITHER case for a badge, but perhaps the same can be said about off duty PD. I'm sure that all police officers when they carry their gun have some sort of photo ID with them, becayse a badge just won't cut it; anyone can buy one of those.

Not sure how to work that Quote thing.

Neither should have a badge Period. 9-11-01 was different. It still didn't matter if you had a badge down there or not. Nobody was checking. I have been into Federal Buildings as well and have had to at least lock up my firearm in the Office I was in.

Off Duty PO's should have both their ID and BADGE. If they are going to carry their firearms, they MUST have their Badge, and ID won't cut it. Like was said before, ID's can be made on Computers. You see how people are making fake Licenses, they can make those ID's Better. You can get a badge made, but you need proper ID to do that as well. Can't just walk into a Uniform store and have one made.

PM was right, the only people that should carry a badge is LAW ENFORCEMENT personell.

So, this person was arrested, are you saying he doesn't want to volley anymore? I know lots of VOLLY's that have been arrested, they still do it.

BADGES, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES

[Guest DADAY]

Ok I would have to ask what is the real reason to carry a EMT shield, or even a paramedic shield? Are we not issued NYS DOH cards that along with our NYS ID show who we are?

[Guest]

There is no reason to carry a shield. Unless you work for an agency (by that i mean PAID PROFESSIONAL) that issues you and requires you to wear it (IE: FDNY and any participatory Hospital EMS, Portchester-Rye-Rye Brook EMS, and im sure a few others). It seems that its EMS agencies which are supplied by a municiaplity are the ones who get badges probably for identification purposes. Any one else just wants an excuse to carry a badage and look cool and try to get out of a traffic ticket.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

PM, just to be clear, that is not my quote above. I copied that from whoever else wrote it and pasted it on mine. I don't know how to use the quote thing. I did write the "Stinking Badges" part though.

With that being said, maybe if you are A PAID PROFESSIONAL and working in uniform you can have your badge. Just leave it at home or in your glove box when not at work. Vollies don't need them period.

As for people that stop when off duty to assist, why do that? You could be first on scene giving medical treatment, but soon as the PD/FD/EMS agency gets there, get out of the way. I can't stand when I get somewhere and someone says, "I'm an EMT, with Blah, Blah, Blah. I don't care, get out of my way. I don't need your help. Thanks for stopping, now be on your way.

I am still curious to see what the EMT in the City was charged with. Did it say?

Reading some of the older posts, it seems that almost everyone is in agreement that shields should only be carried off duty by LAW ENFORCEMENT.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

I figured out the quote thing. I am so happy now.

[IzzyEng4 427]

OK FOLKS I AM NOT HAPPY HERE!

I posted this article for you to all see what happened here. A certified EMT from NY was arrested for having his badge with him, in his briefcase. He had his card with him also. WHAT IS WRONG HERE!!!

First, this thread is not going to be a paid vs. vollie thing. If it continues, the thread will be taken down.

Second, the artile was posted because this could happen to any firefighter or EMT ot off duty police officer. Saying this I know several people who do not carry thier ID's with them, just a badge. I am not going to argue if this is right or wrong.

The point of the article and I am looking for a better press release on this is that a person who has every right to have a badge, was not misusing it at all, was falsely arrested just for keeping it in his BRIEFCASE! For all we know, this could be the badge style that of the agency he works / volunteers for. We can assume everything here from he had it with so he figured it is safe in the briefcase to he was going to his shift afterwards and was carrying it. Lets not assume and go with the facts.

[ex-commish 490]

Reading some of the older posts, it seems that almost everyone is in agreement that shields should only be carried off duty by LAW ENFORCEMENT.

←

As a fulltime law enforcement officer and volunteer fire chief I have to disagree, respectfully. My vol FD issues a badge and photo ID card for ID purposes. The badge is actually part of a class A uniform. And don't get me wrong, I hardly carry my work badge with me so I don't have badge fetish like others and I don't think this case will deter people from volunteering. If a badge is all you are in it for than something is wrong. You need a hobby or something.

There may be more than the story than we know but if it is true that it was only a possession issue than I feel he was arrested unjustly. If he abused it, than has what is coming to him.

Andy Mancusi

Chief

Hawthorne FD

[210 91]

Izzy, agreed but would still like to hear the Pd's side. The press is the press.

[92DLt 0]

I agree--the point of this is that this guy got arrested for having badge. This isnt a debate on wether he should have had one in the first place.

To me badges are a dime a dozen since everyone and their mother has one, sanitation, code enforcement, security guards, notary publics, meter maids, etc...

I think the real issue is that there are no legal prohibitions to an EMT carrying a shield and it appears that this person was acting appropriately and not misrepresenting that he was a detective or something he was not and yet he was still arrested.

For all of you out there who say police are the only ones who should have shields I'd like to ask a simple question--does having a badge make a better a police officer or identify you any better? If a man with a gun tells me to stop I'm gonna stop if he has a badge on or not. If someone tries offering me assistance after I've just wrecked my car it would be reassuring to see some sort of id that was a little more professional looking that was DOH gives out.

[ONEEYEDMIC 68]

OK FOLKS I AM NOT HAPPY HERE!

First, this thread is not going to be a paid vs. vollie thing.  If it continues, the thread will be taken down.

Second, the artile was posted because this could happen to any firefighter or EMT ot off duty police officer. 

The point of the article and I am looking for a better press release on this is that a person who has every right to have a badge, was not misusing it at all, was falsely arrested just for keeping it in his BRIEFCASE!  For all we know, this could be the badge style that of the agency he works / volunteers for.  We can assume everything here from he had it with so he figured it is safe in the briefcase to he was going to his shift afterwards and was carrying it.  Lets not assume and go with the facts.

:angry:

←

The one person it should not happen too is an off duty POLICE OFFICER. Unless of course he is BREAKING THE LAW, then what ever happens, happens. If you are an OFF DUTY PO and just carry your ID that is your own perogative. I would like to think that when questioned by AUTHORITY, the off duty MOS would say, " I am on the job here is my ID" It would take a quick phone call to confirm if this person is in fact PO MOS.

Who really cares if the person is an EMT? What gives them the right to carry a BADGE? Most people that carry badges including Paid FF's are sworn in to carry such badge. That does not mean sworn in by the Head of an AMBULANCE CORP or FD either, I mean by a MAYOR, TOWN SUPERVISOR, ETC... Are EMS people now sworn in before they get a job. NOOOOOO. He could have left his badge else where. Why not just carry it in a wallet. Leaving it in a briefcase may have been suspicious to the PERSONNELL at the Court house.

IZZY, where you there? Was it you? You don't know that he was just falsely arrested for having it in his briefcase. There is more to this story than they are letting on about. You are also assuming that he is going into work after he gets out of the Courthouse.

This is not a PAID Versus VOLLIE thing, it is a BADGE Versus NO BADGE thing. I just think that you are mad becasue nobody agrees with you.

[IzzyEng4 427]

The one person it should not happen too is an off duty POLICE OFFICER. Unless of course he is BREAKING THE LAW, then what ever happens, happens. If you are an OFF DUTY PO and just carry your ID that is your own perogative. I would like to think that when questioned by AUTHORITY, the off duty MOS would say, " I am on the job here is my ID" It would take a quick phone call to confirm if this person is in fact PO MOS.

Who really cares if the person is an EMT? What gives them the right to carry a BADGE? Most people that carry badges including Paid FF's are sworn in to carry such badge. That does not mean sworn in by the Head of an AMBULANCE CORP or FD either, I mean by a MAYOR, TOWN SUPERVISOR, ETC... Are EMS people now sworn in before they get a job. NOOOOOO. He could have left his badge else where. Why not just carry it in a wallet. Leaving it in a briefcase may have been suspicious to the PERSONNELL at the Court house.

IZZY, where you there? Was it you? You don't know that he was just falsely arrested for having it in his briefcase. There is more to this story than they are letting on about. You are also assuming that he is going into work after he gets out of the Courthouse.

This is not a PAID Versus VOLLIE thing, it is a BADGE Versus NO BADGE thing. I just think that you are mad becasue nobody agrees with you.

←

First off read the post. Secondly no it wasn't me, I came across the article and posted it because this happened, reguardless who what when where and why. Third this post is now being taken down. THANK YOU

[JBE 328]

Still doesn't say why he was locked up. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the EMT badge look like an NYPD detectives shield?? (Quote) And don't tell me to identify ones self while OFF DUTY, BUFFING A SCENE.(Quote) And what, pray tell, is wrong with buffing??

[20y2 43]

Carrying a EMT off duty is not a big deal, whether he had it in the federal courthouse or not. The issue is that we are obviously missing part of the story here. Being charged with Forgery 2 and CPFI(both felonies, IIRC) isn't something a cop, any cop will lightly charge an EMS provider with. I await the entire story before passing judgement.

[IzzyEng4 427]

I locked this thread. This was supposed to be for information only.