STAT213

Worry about the call that is, not the call that could be. Do you not send people you may need to that first call out of fear for the second call? No.

It's done here in NH. I know of two departments that bill or have billed. One bills for RSI intercepts, which are above and beyond mutual aid. One began billing, or threatened to bill a town that was using their services when the towns contracted private service's second ambulance was coming from too far away, or was not ALS. The town doing the abusing went with a zero bid private service who put one ambulance in service to cover seven towns. You can guess how well that went. Their second due was coming from a ways away in the private services other coverage area. Soooo, the abusing town just decided to start calling the closest ALS ambulance. Lasted for a while, but the town getting used finally said enough, and started to bill. Problem stopped.

There are plenty of good EMS systems out there. Boston, King county, la county, some of the counties around DC come to mind. Westchester is not a system. It's a patchwork of solutions to issues. Without leadership, it won't change. Because, quite frankly, the people don't care. They do not care what the ambulance has written on it. They want someone to show up, be nice to them, fix them and get them to a hospital. With a pillow and a blanket. Seriously, that came out in a study/survey in Syracuse. So unless someone inside or outside the system will step up and begin to build solutions, y'all are stuck with what ya got. Ever notice that those model systems have a tribute page on their website to the visionary that made it happen? That's not by accident. Step up and lead if you want it fixed. Take charge of the EMS council and push. Read some of the tributes to visionary leaders. They have words like relentless, tireless, pursuing, energetic in them. Again, for a reason.

They do roll on the Sabbath. But, they can't do WORK. Unless its an emergency. So, they can drive TO the call, but NOT back from the call. Cause, then, its not a mergency no more.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/manlius_residents_approve_building_new_108_million_fire_station.html This is in a town with three other fire districts. Another combination department and two volunteer. 50 square miles and 32000 residents.

Will it be available for any type of call needing the foam it carries, or just certain types of calls?

22000 square feet. Amazing. Did you look at the drawing? How huge the living and work spaces are?

Oh, I get that it's a two way street. It has to be. I'm just surprised that they give so much.

With Newburgh's staffing, they still offer up 1 & 1 for mutual aid?

Just reading this I am VERY glad that the tallest building in my town is four stories. Whole different kind a firefighting.

Not sure how consolidation fits into this discussion. Needing eight tankers is needing 8 tankers. True that a county department would (hopefully) allocate resources in a more even fashion so areas with the need for tankers would have them. But anyway... For those of you not familiar with tanker operations, there is a formula that determines how many tankers you will need. For example, a 2000 gallon tanker driving a three mile loop can only supply 150 gallons per minute. Sooo, if they were flowing 1200 gallons a minute, they would need...8 tankers. Or if the three miles was over crappy roads, you just might need the 8 tankers to flow even less water. Having been a water supply officer on a similar fire, until all those tankers get in the right line, and into the flow, it seems like more, more, more is the answer.

I know of a fire up here in NH where the fire chief decided it was a loser from the get go (and from what people on the scene told me, it was a reasonable call) and said we're done here, let it burn. Well, guess what happened....homeowner sued the town and WON, saying the FD had a duty that they did NOT fulfill. Sucks, but it is the world we live in. The member from GBFD explained quite nicely why so many tankers were needed. Why all the grief?

GBFD109, Thanks for taking the time to explain conditions, and the eloquence of your reply, especially in the face of a Monday morning QB questioning the amount of resources called.

Is a first alarm in Yonkers really seven engines and four ladders?

Quite the variations and set up on that pump. 400' of 1 3/4 seems like a loooooonnnng stretch. PDP must be up there, depending on what that fog nozzle needs. Why not reduce friction loss by using a 100 2 1/2 leader line? Anyway... My engine in Derry, NH. 1000 gallon tank. 1000' of 4". 600 feet of flat loaded 2 1/2 with a wye at the end for our occasional long stretches. 100' 1 3/4 in a bundle with breakaway fog/smooth bore nozzle and a 50' donut roll. Called our high rise pack, used to attach to the of the 2 1/2 listed above. 200' 2 1/2 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle. 200' 1 3/4 flat load off the rear with TFT fog nozzle. Two 1 3/4 200' crosslays, one with solid bore, one with TFT fog nozzle. 200' 2 1/2 crosslay with TFT fog nozzle. That's it folks. As with most places, our hose loads are revised like our SOGs, and can take a while to have change. Nice thing about our lays is that they give us flexibility, and they are built around OUR buildings. There is ONE garden style apt that we can't hit with the 200' crosslay. Our building mix is mostly single or two family residential, and then a bunch of apartments.

I belong to two of these kind of sites for the fire service. The other one is dead. Kaput. They both got going around the same time, had their ups and downs and had their usual fights between members. So, seeing as they both are trending down, I would guess that it is a waning of the popularity of forum based sites. Now that I think of it, a third site that I visit has a similar downturn. The implications of our jobs and postings on social media are also very valid. What we do off duty and on the web reflects on our departments, regardless if we put disclaimers up or not. That is the way of the world now. I will say that the holiness on this site more so than the negativity is what turned me off the most. It frequently felt preachy. Anyway, that's my two cents and what comes to mind. I think the points raised above are also valid, so it's likely a whole bunch of different reasons for different folks.

Unless something has changed in past few years, very few rockland FDs do EMS. Vol/paid BLS, Career ALS and PD handle the EMS calls.

Or replace it with a dry chem.

Wait, so all those lights don't do anything? Huh, wonder if the cops will catch on?

You come up with some odd questions, Seth. What I mean is the slant in this one about a RULE. Why would there need to be one? Is this something that needs to be legislated? That aside, lemme get to the meat of your question. Here's how we do it at my agency. We used to say one backboarded patient only. Seeing as we don't backboard anyone anymore, it's pretty much one patient per ambulance. We will take one extra ambulatory patient, and sometimes two based on circumstance. One thing that helped with this was the removal of the full bench seat from our ambulances. Take away the place to put a second backboarded patient, and pow, you call a second bus. Generally, if we do put extra patients in a bus, we add a provider, too. But, when all the seats are taken up by patients...where's the provider gonna sit?

Finally is an interesting way to put replacing a 2001 ladder truck. Look around New England, a 13 or 14 year old truck ain't old. Ours is a 1995 with NO plans of replacement. Sometimes I wonder about how some people on this board miss reality a bit. They seem to think that money for equipment grows on trees and how we deserve certain kinds of equipment. I deserve a safe working environment. It's up to the taxpayers and the elected officials to decide what to provide me as far as equipment goes. It's the leaderships job to educate them as to how to best spend their money. As far as saying a dept is finally replacing something that many other departments would be thrilled to have...doesn't quite jive for me with most jurisdiction's financial realities.

One thing not mentioned in the article is which generation of firefighters is suing. Is it current? Past? Hired thirty years ago? Barry pointed out siren placement. When did buffalo move their sirens from the cab roof to the bumper? Who hear has ridden in a vehicle with a siren on the roof? It is ungodly loud. Everyone knows sirens are loud. Biggest questions I see are where was the siren, and were protections offered to mitigate damage.

How does it violate the law? Not trying to be a smart ass, Bnechis, just want to know.

See, now this thread coulda gone places if you would've left the disclaimer off. Shame on you, SOUSGT.

Brilliant!!! If you close the companies, you don't need to buy new apparatus. That's some forward thinkin right there.