STAT213

I have been wearing it inside my gear with the mike hanging out at my neck. Seems to work pretty good so far.

Syracuse FD recently had a Mini "borrowed" from a call. Same discussion came up on signal99.com. Main reason was that if it had to moved quickly on a scene, it could be and by anyone. There is the home with keys reason too.

We get dressed before we mount the piece. I usually slide my arms through the shoulder straps of the SCBA if warranted and then buckle up. If we're on the road and a call comes in, I dress on arrival. Not my emergency. If I am going croak on this job, it ain't gonna be cause I wasn't wearing a seat belt. I don't know how much harder those of us who espouse this theory can put it. Its not just some idea we are trying to push off on you because we think it is cool. The goal was reducing LODDs to fifty this year. We didn't even come close.

And as evidenced in the Santa page, no one died from apparatus accidents; we can start riding tailboards again, right?

Here is how we do it. First due pump to a fire is fire attack. They do that...The operator will usually be too busy to get water supply but can ready him/herself for it i.e. layout a shorty. Other pumps and trucks are assigned tasks by the BC as they arrive, usually search, vent and water supply, but not always in that order. We staff @ 18 (four engines (3 ff each), 1 ambulance(2 ff) and one ladder (3ff), and the WF assignment brings a Mutual Aid RIT, EMS and Air/Rescue assignment. This works for us, and it depends on a number of factors...geography, advancement of the fire, hydrant district, etc.

Here is how we do it. First due pump to a fire is fire attack. They do that...The operator will usually be too busy to get water supply but can ready him/herself for it i.e. layout a shorty. Other pumps and trucks are assigned tasks by the BC as they arrive, usually search, vent and water supply, but not always in that order. We staff @ 18 (four engines (3 ff each), 1 ambulance(2 ff) and one ladder (3ff), and the WF assignment brings a Mutual Aid RIT, EMS and Air/Rescue assignment. This works for us, and it depends on a number of factors...geography, advancement of the fire, hydrant district, etc.

For us, It all depends on the needs of the incident. If the piece is going to be used for fire attack/rescue/water supply then the operator will be commited to it. However, if my company is assigned a task not involving the piece, we stage it a little ways away and the three of us go to work together as a company. As with many things on the fireground, this can change and is fluid.

Can you back up the statement about NEVER with the lines from the NYS V&T law? Cause I just looked it up, and in Title 7, Article 23, Section 1104 (the emergency vehicle section) it states : § 1104. Authorized emergency vehicles. (a) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when involved in an emergency operation, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions herein stated. ( The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:(including other things) 4. Disregard regulations governing directions of movement or turning in specified directions. Careful when you use words like NEVER. I am not trying to really bust balls, but I feel its important when you are posting on here - there are a lot of people who take stuff on here as gospel - to have the facts right. So, you can go the wrong way as long as you use due regard. Now, many departments have policies regarding this. Mine is one of them. Law is another issue entirely.

I was out visiting friends in Ann Arbor Michigan once, and that is the only plow blade I saw on their trucks. Oddest thing, you hear a plow coming, but no blade until you look hard.

Umm, FYI. The county and WMC have NOTHING to say about helicopter usage. It is not theirs. Now, they can bring it up in CQI or complain to the state but that really is their only avenue right now.

I can tell you from experience as well...STAT flight is mis-used. I wouldn't say abused. But, who is the guy calling me to the Sprain, or to Chappaqua? I can tell you that the flight crews are NOT in a position to change things. No way am I gonna show up on a scene call, declare something not worthy of my shiny helicopter and leave. Suicide. So yes, Air transport is overused in certain areas. And, as with many of the issues on this forum, it ain't unique to Westchester. Bottom line, think before you act. Run through your mind why you are doing what you are doing. Does it benefit your patient to get to a trauma center 3 minutes sooner? Granted, they may be wrapped up in a shiny silver blanket, but that is about all the care they'll get in a hop from Chappaqua. As long as they get to the trauma center in a timely manner, you have done well.

So, I ask the question - are we properly utilizing this important asset? There was a recent MVA in a local community where ground BLS and ALS responded and a medevac aircraft was requested. MyResponse...No, we are not properly using this resource. Unless the patient needed something that the ground providers could not offer, there is little benefit. Some folks in the pretty suits may tell you that the patient is getting better care, and they may be right - for 7 minutes - but there is not any research tying outcomes of the trauma victim to being cared for by a nurse/medic team for 7 minutes. BLS left the scene with the victim (and ALS aboard if my info is correct) at 12:00 (times changed to protect everyone's privacy and avoid issues). At 12:17 the helicopter lifted off from the LZ and arrived at a trauma center at 12:25. Total transport time from scene to trauma center = 25 minutes. Driving from the scene to the trauma center in question would take approximately 26 minutes without lights or siren - a distance of about 16 miles. Arguably it may take a little bit less with lights and siren. My Response Very true. People forget that calling a helicopter is not simple, nor is it quick. It generally adds about 20 minutes to the operation. Now, your points have to take into consideration that the ground providers would actually be enroute to the hospital in the same time frames if the helicopter was not involved i.e. would they stay and play to get that IV... How did the patient benefit from the one minute saved by air transport? (Weather was not a consideration at the time of this particular example and ground ALS was available so these are not factors) My Response..In this case, and many other in Westchester, the patient did not benefit. Heck, we can't PROVE that medics benefit patients. We THINK so, ASSUME so, but can't prove it. And, this is a flight medic talking... Another question - it is possible that the helicopter was called prior to the paramedic's arrival. Does anyone have any thoughts about the paramedic reversing a decision made by a BLS provider prior to their arrival? Protocol dictates that the highest trained medical provider is supposed to be responsible for such decisions but would it be incorrect for a medic to call off the helicopter requested by the PD, FD or BLS in favor of ground transport? ← My response..Sure, the medic can reverse the BLS decision. No decision is made in stone, or it shouldn't be. If the cop got on scene first and thought it was awful based on how the cars looked, but after eval you determined they were all sign offs, would you cancel the helicopter or have them land to help with the sign offs? You also mentioned safety. I will fight this one tooth and nail. The ground ambulance is the most dangerous vehicle on the road, period. Air transport is WAY safer regardless of the highly publicized wrecks we have. There is an ambulance wreck EVERY DAY in the US. Take a look at emsnetwork.org for the stats. So, are helicopters being used correctly? Nope. I did calls in towns within 10 miles from the medical center in my tenure wearing a red suit. The helicopter has been called to the Sprain at the medical center exit. Crazy, huh? The question is, as in most of EMS who will change things? How do you change things? To that, I have no good answer. Sorry.

We have one town resident who comes up to us in the gym - mind you we go to a gym like golds - and yells at us for wasting her tax dollars. You can't make this stuff up...

585, Like many of the times in Westcom, I am once again forced to show you the light. Here's the deal. You ARE taking jobs away from my future union brothers. The existence of the volunteer firefighting service means two things - less guys getting paid to be firefighters and more importantly, less guys paying dues to the international. As long as you continue to volunteer in your community, the town fathers are able to get away with not paying someone to do the job. It really is that simple. From what I can understand, that is my take on the international's stand on this issue. (Let it be known, I am no IAFF spokesman) Its about money. They don't want me volunteering because it sends the wrong message - its okay to have departments out there not bringing money to the international. Look - there is a union brother doing just that so it must be ok. It goes even further, though. We are facing this issue currently in my fine state. There is a hospital with a paramedic fly car service who uses per diem medics like just about every other service. Many of my union bretheren work there on their days off. Trouble is, one of the towns wants to go to the paramedic level - well the firefighters do anyway. Town points out that they currently get this service for much cheaper from the hospital, why would the town pay to increase service. Now the town not wanting to is a whole 'nuther issue for another day. But, do you see where this is headed? FD Union from said department honchos complain to the state association and a letter comes out, phone calls are made first asking, then telling the boys who work per diem that they need to quit or they could face charges, be expelled, yada yada yada. That is how far this gets taken by the international. It is about money and jobs plain and simple. Its black and white to them. I hope you can read between the lines here and see my point of view. I am one guy in a huge organization. I am saying I want all of the volunteers out there to turn in their gear tomorrow? No way!!! That just isn't possible, feasible, reasonable or even a little appropriate. Are there guys in the union who would like that result? Probably. I like a lot of things that the organization does for me. I can see the arguments. Agree with them? Not always.

We are actually doing something like this. We have an hour and half a day for PT. We are in service, but at the bottom of the run cards for EMS, service calls and alarm activations. We rotate our companies through the gym each day - we have four engine and two medic companies in service - and they spend that time working it. Its a great program, but rather controvertial as you might imagine.

Actually, its not. (Well, it wouldn't have been an issue when I worked over there four years ago.) The Good Sam cardiologists were long done with the WMC cardiologists by then. They send ALL of their caths down into Jersey. It was a normal day to have three or four caths lined up to be transferred out in the AM by RMC (now Regional, I believe.) This will be a welcome addition for them, I am sure. No more cath runs!!!

We just purchased an engine with the TAC-4 suspension last year. Other than it being out of service just about every other month, once for the steering system itself, its a good truck. The steering system is awesome. We have some tight areas in the truck's first due district, and it handles them with ease. You really can get it into and out of tight spots. It does require work though; you are moving the wheel around. It also seems to burn through tires pretty quick. We are already putting new shoes on it.

You can make it up to Canada in a few hours?? And that was not a home for him, barely a stop...

Or, Roger might go back to his true home, just a few hours North of the Evil Empire. HA!!

just wondering how it works. it seems mabe there are advantages and disadvanages but could work in some areas depending on staffing and the size of the responce area. ← We grappled with this in my department. It was decided that the best thing to do was use the engines for EMS response to keep them available for fire response at all times.

Civilian medics and EMTs? Civilian? Oh jeez. No thanks. How 'bout FF/medics? Professional, union FF medics. Only way to go in my book. Everyone is a FF, everyone an EMSer.

Like to see 'em try that s$%t up here. See, we don't have seat belt laws (for us adults!!) Up here, we Live Free or Die!!! You can have your silly seat belt and gun laws.

Interesting Idea. I know for a fact that Onondago County Sherriffs have broken off pursuits in the chopper because the suspect was going too fast for them. Granted this was their old B Model Jet Ranger, but the 407 only has 30 or 40 knots on them. Second point. Someone mentioned they would hate to see Troopers dying because of an overpowered vehicle. Well, its happening now. A Trooper in Onondaga County was killed when he took a turn too fast in his Chevy Tahoe (unsure if it was a pursuit rated vehicle) while chasing a fleeing motorcycle suspect. He took a turn at a high rate of speed and wrapped his Tahoe around a tree.

Chicago is the other city I can think of. Anbody else know of others? RA

I saw something in the post about underwear that I would like to ask the folks here about. Given the chance, I would gladly ditch my brand new issued full turnouts for a Chicago style coat and 3/4 boots. Does anyone else out there think we are fooling ourselves with the envelope we are wearing these days? There are two departments that I can think of that allow either long coats and 3/4 boots or just a bunker coat. I know its preached as gospel that we need these new high tech suits, but where do we get that information? What if we are setting ourselves up for worse problems by getting overheated and deeper and deeper into fires that we should. Granted, we may be able to put out a few fires sooner, but we are also putting ourselves into more dangerous situations. I would really be curious to know the stats on Chicago and Boston LOD injuries from the gear they wear. Thoughts??